Germany Warns China Olympics at Risk (Update: France Considering Boycott)

Originally posted by drock905
echoing an earlier post, john titor did say the olympics wouldnt happen "officially" after 04.........

John Titor also said that America would be in a civil war by now...hmmm has that happened?

John Titor is a hoax.

reply to post by realmatrix


i have said China is open coutry in biggest gerneral. some specific web blocked doesnt mean the whole courtry is close. thanks internet, let the whole world live in a parrallel way.

i also said your western media are liars in biggest gerneral. see the video i have posted in last post. so what you know is false. some rioters has been released for slightly crime.

dont talk about what kind of free tibet with me. i am tired of arguing this issue. it is of no sense since 99%+ tibetans never have such idea except Dalai and his followers.

go on to boycott olympics. that is your right and freedom.

[edit on 23-3-2008 by wwssii]

Originally posted by wwssii
reply to post by realmatrix

 

i have said China is open coutry in biggest gerneral. some specific web blocked doesnt mean the whole courtry is close. thanks internet, let the whole world live in a parrallel way.

i also said your western media are liars in biggest gerneral. see the video i have posted in last post. so what you know is false. some rioters has been released for slightly crime.

dont talk about what kind of free tibet with me. i am tired of arguing this issue. it is of no sense since 99%+ tibetans never have such idea except Dalai and his followers.

go on to boycott olympics. that is your right and freedom.

[edit on 23-3-2008 by wwssii]

My my...getting a little defensive aren't you! I simply said it did not sound like you agreed with the issue of a free Tibet. If 99% of Tibetans don't want freedom and independence from China, then this will all blow over soon.

Personally, rather than boycotting the Olympics , I would rather see China removed from the WTO. That would be a good idea...at least for the U.S.

reply to post by realmatrix


oh, maybe i am in a bad mood.. hehe..

trade surplus is a big issue in sino-america relation. i, as a senior economist, know this well, understand your idea.

but maybe more export of america high-tech products to China would be a good solution, LOL, i am not coveting your advantage. but just in terms of trade, it is a good way.

Originally posted by FredT
..I for one would like to see a boycott....

Not that I dissagree with you, but hypothetically speaking-

If the 2008 summer games were slated for Washington DC instead of Beijing, would the World be wrong for boycotting?

reply to post by wwssii


Hello wwssii, interesting to hear your account.

However I find it hard to believe that 99%+ of Tibetans shouldn't care whether they are under Chinese rule or their own rule.

Now I'm no expert and I have never been to Tibet, but the country has since I were young always had my interest, and I've read numerous books on the country, from Rapsong Lampa's fiction over Alexandra David-Néel fascinating travel accounts to the Tibetan Book of Death.

From what I have learned through my studies and reading I always had the impression that the Tibetan people where very homogenous, and close to 100% support their religion, be it their traditional Bon animisme or the Mahayana Buddhisme of the Lamas.

Would you care to collaborate and deepen your claim to make it more probable?

Thank you.

China blasts Dalai Lama, Pelosi on Tibet

Let the Chicom propaganda war commence.

reply to post by biggie smalls


add these little tidbits

China: Tibetan Detainees at Serious Risk of Torture and Mistreatment

My favorite is this
Forced Evictions and the Tenants' Rights Movement in China

Need to build an Olymic venue, sure we will evict all those people. No problem.

Originally posted by NewWorldOver
We shouldn't boycott. We shouldn't provoke China.
If China decides to dump Americas debt we are screwed. Big time. If China went on an embargo with America our economy would be crushed.

Why? Its like lobbing a nuclear weapon. If they chose to takedown thier/our economy then they will be just as effected by the fallot if not more. Thier goods and markets are geared for our consumption. To rework that would take alot of time and effort etc. Global, intergrated economies are that way.

We should not provoke China. Not over the olympics, not over Tibet... seriously... this is stupid.

What makes the Chicoms so special? And how is this a provokation? We did the same thing in Afganistan when the Soviets were committing atrocities there. Why should china get special treatment? Countries CAN chose to send a team to the Olymipcs

The olympics going smoothly is something that makes the whole world feel at ease. If any conflicts arise concerning China and the Olympics I'm just gonna throw in the towel : it's all over.

Not sure what you mean. Not participating in an Olympics in a country behaves the way CHina does towards its citizens (Willing and otherwise) would also make the world feel good by not enabling poor behavior on the part of the Chicom government eh?

Instead of aiming our political outrage at our own leaders we have people talking about provoking the red dragon. Seriously - think it through people.

What exactly does the politcal leadership of German have to do with the brutal supression and massacre of people in TIbet? If anything out outrage should be directed at those who do not deal with the brutal (Nazi like) oppression going on in Tibet.... or those posters who seem to shrug it off :shk:

[edit on 3/23/08 by FredT]

Originally posted by West Coast

Originally posted by xxpigxx
I would like to see a boycott. If our economy goes sour (worse then it is) because of it, so be it. China will go down with us.

Maybe then, the American way will come back. Maybe then we will start manufacturing to take care of our own needs. We have become to dependent on others, when we were perfectly fine being self sufficient. If it takes another depression, bring it on.

Manufacturing economy's are usually lower based economy's, the US has simply outgrown or matured past that point.

A country 6000 miles away from it's manufacturing base cannot rationalize outgrowing its manufacturing base. America is just too entrenched.

America will most likely be in bed with China indefinitely... no matter what spin solutions and propaganda we are convieniently feed... and the P.R.C. know this... It's funny how Government's think of the downside in dealing with a country (China in this case) only after we have sold our "industrialized souls" to them.

In the scheme of things, the Olympics are only a blip on the radar when viewing the big picture here. You can bet, a day after any boycot, American and European ships loaded with Chinese manufactured goods will have carte blanche across the high seas just in time for Christmas. Just ask your Walmart CEO's...

An embargo of that country will not work! Why you ask?? Because they are in general, a much-much tougher breed, and understand what "having nothing" is about. Try telling your wife to live on rice, bat eared mushrooms, tea and no indoor plumbing or heat for a year.

Any storm that America or Germany create, China can wait out -- emotionally, physically and financially. 6000 years of exsistance gives 1.3 billion people that confidence.

It's ashamed and a true humanitarian tragedy for the Tibetian people... but the problem in China at this time in history is only a direct by-product of them trying to compete & emulate their hero's ---- the Western world.

[edit on 23-3-2008 by Level X]

Storms ahead for Olympics torch

Final preparations have been taking place in Greece for the lighting of the Olympic flame for the Beijing games.
Cloudy skies meant the flame could not be lit in the traditional way - using the Sun's rays - at the final dress rehearsal on Sunday.

If the weather fails to play its part in the ceremony on Monday, a back-up flame will be used to light the torch that will be carried to China.

Activists say the ceremony will trigger protests over Tibet and other issues.

And they are gonna carry this torch through Tibet -- under police escort?

Olympic message

International Olympic Committee chief Jacques Rogge believes the games could be a changing factor in China.

"We believe that China will change by opening the country to the scrutiny of the world through the 25,000 media who will attend the games," he said in a statement.

"Awarding the Olympic Games to the most populous country in the world will open up one fifth of mankind to Olympism."

Well, article 1 of the Olympic Charter states:

"respect for universal fundamental ethical principles."

So for all the money Rogge and his cronies got under the table, they think China is gonna change? Well, likely it will, but not for the better, I am afraid. It'll make them feel more superior and make them more arrogant, which probably will be good for China's self-esteem, but not for the rest of the world.

reply to post by khunmoon


Whoa whoa whoa...

So the olympic charter mentions basic human rights and the olympics is going to be hosted in a country that has denied basic human rights to its citizens?

Not that the US is much better for our treatment of the indigenous peoples, the slaves, or the current Iraq/Afghanistan situation. That's not my point.

The Chinese stadium was literally built on the graves of people the communist government killed to build it.

What the hell?

Here's the complete wording of the paragraph:

"Olympism is a philosophy of life, exalting and combining in a balanced whole the qualities of body, will and mind. Blending sport with culture and education, Olympism seeks to create a way of life based on the joy found in effort, the educational value of good example and respect for universal fundamental ethical principles."

Olympic Charter, Fundamental principles, paragraph 2

The site has a link to the full text of the charter (pdf). I'm in the process of downloading it, but it takes a while with my conection.

reply to post by khunmoon


Ethical principles still assumes that the parties involve don't have a death camp for cats. That alone, ignoring all the human rights abuses, is enough to question the host.

Maybe Hitler shouldn't have revived the Olympics and just let them die with the Greeks...(I can't believe I just said that).

The Olympics have become a place where sponsors can test our new products, and countries can gain enormous tourism profits in the process.

The games themselves have degenerated from "goodwill" games to the genocide olympics, courtesy of our host this year (Darfur anyone?).

Some updates in regards to the Olympics, I didn't think this needed its own thread:

Tibetan protests threaten to overshadow Olympic flame ceremony

The Beijing Olympic torch was due to be lit in Greece on Monday but celebrations were at risk of being overshadowed by China's controversial efforts to quell two weeks of deadly Tibetan unrest.

The Chinese military was maintaining a lockdown on Monday of Tibet and nearby provinces where protests have taken place over China's 57-year rule of the remote Himalayan region.

I really hope the Greeks can stand up here and say no, we're not even going to light the torch.

That would be a statement the Chinese could not deny.


Tibet pledges security efforts for Olympic torch relay: daily+

Tibetan authorities have promised to take security measures for the Tibetan portion of the Olympic torch relay to protect it from disturbances after this month's deadly riots, the Tibet Daily reported Monday.

The report, quoting unidentified sports officials in Tibet, came ahead of the Olympic flame-lighting ceremony to be held in Greece on the same day.

Relevant authorities in Tibet will "cooperate to take security and safety-related work, in order to firmly prevent sabotage by the Dalai clique," said the report, carried on a website linked to the paper.

I love how the Dalai Lama is always portrayed as the "evil one." I hope the Tibetans do cause a stir when the relay happens. Maybe the world will start paying attention.

Maybe not, look at Darfur...

Finally I got the whole 105 paged Charter down and just the opening statement makes the Beijing games a farce (surrealism at its best).

Fundamental Principles of Olympism

1. Olympism is a philosophy of life, exalting and combining in a balanced whole the qualities of body, will and mind. Blending sport with culture and education, Olympism seeks to create a way of life based on the joy of effort, the educational value of good example and respect for universal fundamental ethical principles.

2. The goal of Olympism is to place sport at the service of the harmonious development of man, with a view to promoting a peaceful society concerned with the preservation of human dignity.

3. The Olympic Movement is the concerted, organised, universal and permanent action, carried out under the supreme authority of the IOC, of all individuals and entities who are inspired by the values of Olympism. It covers the five continents. It reaches its peak with the bringing together of the world’s athletes at the great sports festival, the Olympic Games. Its symbol is five interlaced rings.

4. The practice of sport is a human right. Every individual must have the possibility of practising sport, without discrimination of any kind and in the Olympic spirit, which requires mutual understanding with a spirit of friendship, solidarity and fair play. The organisation, administration
and management of sport must be controlled by independent sports organisations.

5. Any form of discrimination with regard to a country or a person on grounds of race, religion, politics, gender or otherwise is incompatible with belonging to the Olympic Movement.

6. Belonging to the Olympic Movement requires compliance with the Olympic Charter and recognition by the IOC.

My boldings. What was stated as paragraph 2 in the other link seems to be paragraph 1 here



[edit on 24/3/2008 by khunmoon]

reply to post by khunmoon


EU to consider Beijing Olympics boycott

The president of the European Parliament has said that European countries should consider a boycott of the Olympics in Beijing if the Chinese government continues to take a hardline attitude to unrest in Tibet.

Hans-Gert Poettering joined a growing list of western politicians calling on China to open talks with the Dalai Lama, the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader, whom Chinese officials blame for inciting a wave of protests and riots over the last two weeks.

“If there continue to be no signals of compromise, I see boycott measures as justified,” Mr Poettering told Germany’s Bild am Sonntag newspaper ahead of a debate this week about Tibet at the European parliament.

This is a huge step for the EU. I'd like to see Bush follow suit, but we all know who he really bows to.

Its interesting that the EU is only mentioning the Tibetan crisis. No news of Darfur, their treatment of their own civilians, the environmental crisis, etc etc.

The issue here is the Tibetans...who happen to be Chinese...

Huh...

reply to post by biggie smalls


No Darfur we don't speak about, after all that oil (the seven sisters are there too) is for own benefit.

...and well, the negroid population who's in the way for opening wells, are to be compared to the cats of Beijing.

It's a story off-topic for this thread, but nontheless a disgrace to US and EU politics and media alike.

reply to post by Baxtoriafall

John Titor also said that America would be in a civil war by now...hmmm has that happened?

John Titor is a hoax.

But, dude you misunderstand the logistics of time travel, by being here he caused a giant divergance from how it would have been if he didn't come at all. He didn't really make that many predictions, he mostly told what happened in HIS timeline, with the understanding that it could/would/should be diffrent in THIS time line or "worldline". I tell you these other universes and thier CRAZY lingo! Anyway, to be fair we have yet to see if these olympics are "official", I feel like he has 'till the end of 2008 before you can fairly write off any percieved predictions for THIS timeline. Does anyone know if there were olympics in 2006?

I don't watch the olympics, so I find careing not easy. There are, however, lots of people who's lives have revoled around them though, so they should not be messed with lightly. Haveing said THAT, I feel sorry for all those moral jellyfish who seem to lack spines and wish simpley not to stir the pot. Come on, grow a pair, weakness does NOT inspire limitless peace, or "free" love, or any of that other hippey idealism that has infested our culture, thier closest cousins wich do exsist in reality stem from hard work, responsibility, moral strength, understanding, freedom and more hard work.

Good thing your hippey ideals weren't used to deal with hitler, the way they were in Vietnam. But hey, those who forget history....

reply to post by khunmoon


i am not an expert of buddhism either... amost all the Tibetans have their believes, 90% are buddhist, others have their own local god formed before buddhism's introduction to Tibet.. buddhism originated in India.. and now with the development, i guess more and more tibetan yongers are not so earnest to religion. can you imagine some tibetan youth like american culture like NBA, POP, and machiel jordan.

Tibet buddhism can be classified 6 sect, gelu, ningma, sajia, gedang, geju, juenang. Dalai is the spiritual leader of Gelu sect.. i cant explain more details about this, too complicated.

religion belief has nothing to do with the sovereignty problem.. 99% tibetans want peaceful life as citizens and never return the feudal system..