Observing the Massive Naval Preparations in the Pacific

I don't possibly see how America could start another war. The government doesn't have the troops. They are over extending soilders now, like my brother-in-law. They would have to start a draft again. That would me all these war mongers in here would have to get off their keyboards and jump in the saddle, not going to happen. When 70% of Americans are against this war, you think they are going to agree to a draft. Ya Right!

Originally posted by manticore
Currently, China holds over $1 trillion in dollar denominated assets (of which $330 billion are U.S. Treasury notes).

One of the undisclosed aspects of the US currency issues is that your data has become inaccurate. China's holdings have already deminished quite a bit because the dollar value has dropped.

Also, the nation that holds the most US T bills is not China as everyone assumes, Japan holds 4x more than China.

I don't mean to get off topic here but does anyone know of a thread that talks about Japan and China today as it relates to a new or upcoming war? Could Japan fight a War with China today and if not how long would it take them to gear up for one?

I know Article 9 forbids offensive capabilities but that would be null and void if Japan was directly attacked would it not? They would have to somewhat go on the offensive in some aspects of open warfare I suppose...

Japan seems fairly small in comparison to China but Japan when provoked to war seems to be a formidable opponent... At least they were when we fought them...

Anyway, its interesting to think about but I dread the reality...

Well, it will be difficult for the North Vietnamese and China to set Radar on our Ships! They will be getting cross messages and we will have them completely confused. I think that it is a good strategy to be there now during the time when many VIP's and dignitaries gather in trust for the Beijing 2008 Olympics. This way if they get the idea to treat them like their own, we will be there to kick some arse!

Originally posted by Throbber
First i've heard of it.

If the U.S intends to do something about the situation in Tibet, they seem to be in a good position to take things seriously.

Let's just hope this doesn't turn apes##t and we end up with WW3.

*starts digging*

[edit on 20-3-2008 by Throbber]

I am going to try to interject a little humor here in a effort to help people ease up on the panic.

Maybe the reason we are massing there is because we are about to inform China as to what they can do with their accounts receivables !

I think China is making a move to claim Tibet so they can control the water supply. With China and India both nuke powers, and the forcasted reduction of drinking water due to shrinking glaciers, and India giving refuge to Tibet you have to wonder if all these things are related. As resources get tighter China will have its hands full down in the mega populated urban lowlands.

If summertime glacier waters dissappear - well, it wont be pretty.

"I don't mean to get off topic here but does anyone know of a thread that talks about Japan and China today as it relates to a new or upcoming war? Could Japan fight a War with China today and if not how long would it take them to gear up for one?"

Japan has no offensive capabilities, just the Maritime Defense Force. They count on the US for protection. The last Japanese President tried changing their Constitution to support a military (not just limited defense), but that was ruled out. They have an agreement with the US to provide support if necessary in the event China attacks Taiwan.

They have at least one Agisis Destroyer that can be used to track and destroy airborne targets (up to 100 at a time above and below sea).

China has some criteria for taking Taiwan:

- Attack by the element of suprise when least expected

- Take control of Taiwan's main military installations and networks as quickly as possible

- Sink at least one US aircraft carrier early-on, should the US be able to help defend in time

- Keep reiterating that this is an internal problem as to get the weak and/or neutral-minded countries to agree that the US and Japan should not be intervening.

China is willing to take the risks and economic costs associated with taking Taiwan by force (and this includes the Olympics).

The attack on Taiwan is coming very soon. Why? Taiwan has ordered several advanced US Warships, Submarines, and fighter Jets that are due to arrive before 2010. China does not want Taiwan to have any decided advantages or more advanced equipment (or training in using for that matter) before they get a chance to attack.

Much of China's own developement in their 'Crash Navy' of building Amphibious vehicles, ships, submarines are all scheduled to be out by 2010 and are already!

The US is well aware something could happen very soon and wants to be ready with the Pacific Fleets, and Stealth Bombers in Guam.



[edit on 21-3-2008 by jetxnet]

Well, I'm living about three miles from the largest naval base on the West Coast (San Diego/North Island), and I haven't noticed any unusual amount of activity.

Actually I believe Ronald Reagan & her battlegroup are back in port now, I'll have to go look.

The Navy has been doing surge deployments lately (not the Iraq surge), putting larger chunks of the fleet at sea simultaneously. But it's a way to get more from less, not necessarily an indicator of an impending conflict.

I'm fairly sure I would see a notable lack of combat vessels at the docks if a conflict with a major power like China were in the offing, and that doesn't seem to be the case.

I don't see the US doing anything about Tibet - Tibet has little economic importance, frankly.

[edit on 3/21/08 by xmotex]

Economic, maybe not. But strategic?

Think about it. China has too much land mass and too many people to easily defeat in a one-on-one military conflict. But what if China had weak points, cracks in its glass so-to-speak, that could be struck with very little force and cause the whole nation to fall apart?

Tibet and Taiwan could be those cracks. If those two provinces began actively fighting for independence, the whole of China would be sucked into its own civil war. Its rise to power would come to a grinding halt in that case, and when China emerged, whether it was in one piece or not, it would be in no place to compete with the U.S. for decades to come.

If this civil war lasted only a few weeks or months, with Tibet and Taiwan being quickly beat into submission, that result couldn't be achieved. But if those two provinces were receiving intelligence, satellite data, money, and weapons from the U.S. then they might last long enough to wear China's power down.

I'm not saying they could win, I think they'd probably lose the conflict in the end without direct U.S. intervention, but subduing China might be the U.S.'s ultimate goal and not the independence of China's provinces.

After all, many people feel that the reason the U.S. couldn't take on China right now is because America is already bogged down overseas. What better way to even the odds than by bogging down China's forces with a civil war on their own territory?

I'll go even further on this theory. I think there might even be a similar approach being taken in regards to Russia's re-emergence as a major power. The events in Kosovo look like an open attempt to draw Russia into war to many people. Maybe it is? The U.S. could back Kosovo to the point that Serbia had to call Russia in for help, then pull out as Russia moved in. Then Russia would be left in the middle of its war-torn ally's country with the task of fighting an insurgency in Kosovo while rebuilding a nation... sound familiar?

If I'm right, and this is the U.S.'s plan, then it'll be interesting to see how our two "emerging superpowers" will fare when being sucked into conflicts on the same scale that the U.S. has been dealing with lately.

Originally posted by jetxnet
They have at least one Agisis Destroyer that can be used to track and destroy airborne targets (up to 100 at a time above and below sea).

They have a few more than that. They currently have three that are capable of LRS&T and or shooting SM-3s, with one more to be upgraded. And it's AEGIS actually. They currently have 4, with another 2-4 entering service over the next two years. They're modeled on the US Arliegh Burke ships. They carry a 90 cell VLS system, along with the SPY-1D radar system. The usual loadout is the Standard SM-2 IIIA, Harpoon antiship missiles, Vertical Launch ASROC, 1 5" gun, 2 Phalanx systems, and 12.5" torpedo tubes.

That is true and all the more reason China will attack sooner than later, before all these upgrades take place.

The civil war invocation strategy rarely works as they are often futile and put down quickly. China has been aware the Dalai Lama has been working with the CIA for some time now.

China is heavily censored, forget about Civil War there in the mainland. They take on what the government wants them to know. The US spy plane incident in April 2001 should be an indication of their support behind the "Motherland".

A war will happen over Taiwan, this is basically a fact given the investments, Communist China's stubborn mentality and more. We might as well get ready for it and win one for the Gipper.

China is only tough on land and India has kept them at bay. If Taiwan can hold out against a brutal missile attack then they will be OK. Taiwan has plenty of missiles to send back at them. If China engaged a U.S. Carrier then B-2s and Ohio class subs would wipe out their nuclear threat and then the whole U.S. Air force and Navy would rip them to shreds.
We will not play games with China should they decide they are going to try and take the lives of five thousand sailors and Marines, We will hit them hard and fast and by time CNN reports it, China will be crippled badly.

jetxnet

Thanks for the info jetxnet. I was just wondering what Japan could do in the event China went on the war path.. It seems they can defend themselves and strategically I suspect they have a vested interest in an independent Taiwan. I suspect we like it that way as well.

What would the makeup of Asia look like if Taiwan did rejoin China? Is it a good idea to arm them so well? I mean if China did do a sneak attack on Taiwan and won the day they would have access to all the weaponry we have given them over the years.

I doubt the US would allow this... We would be going to war not to save Taiwan but to make sure China didn't get access to all those war materials?

Yeah, that too, but more at stake.

"He who controls the world's most important shipping lanes has the most power"

Taiwan happens to be the world's most important shipping lane between the East and West. The US and the free world now have it, but will not if China gets Taiwan.

China already now has control of the Panama Canal (both ends - thanks Bill Clinton).

The thing with shipping lanes and whoever controls the ports allows who can come through and what they can have. Not too mention, inspect those ships that aren't yours.

By not having these ports (or Democratic friendly Taiwan), the US basically has lost any control in Asia with regard to trade routes.

Not too mention, China would acquire some of the most advanced US technology at Spook Mountain in Taiwan (and their military as you said).

There has been more B-52 activity here (near a large US Airbase) .. They may be going somewhere. When leaving, they usually do a couple of flights hours apart, and this seems to be the case the last few days. When staying home, they just do one early morning flight run. This is the most activity i've heard in a long time.

They make a distinct sound, you cannot mistake them. Interesting but may not be anything, but activity has increased outside of the norm.

There has been list and activity from US and UK.

Here is all the information from Russian Fleets in English:

www.kommersant.com...

reply to post by dk3000


Not to worry, i was referring to the practice of digging for information instead of digging a hole (literally, a hole) about 100 metres under the ground to avoid the fallout.

I don't panic.

Well Mr Ma won the elections with a landslide, so these CSG can go home.

Will they? We will see how much longer they stay in the neigboorhood, there is no reason for them to stay longer now the TW election is over.

We will welcome them back in August.

reply to post by IchiNiSan


I just thinking the same. But like I posted already in this threat there is many possible reasons to gather power in the region: China, North Korea, Myanmar, Indonesia, Taiwan, Tibet ...

Just follow the news, something can pump up from the area "suddenly" to MSM.

reply to post by jetxnet


All 20 B-2 bombers are on a safety pause after the crash of one last month. They're not flying any training flights, and only flying NECESSARY missions, which right now equates to none. The B-52 fleet has stepped up and is taking up the slack and covering the B-2 missions. That's why there's more activity for them.