Pentagon DNA Evidence....Is it Possible?

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
The DNA was 'gathered' at Dover? or were the remains taken there?

www.arlingtoncemetery.net...

A team of more than 100 workers at a military morgue at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware used several methods to identify remains but primarily relied on DNA testing and dental records. They formally ended their effort Friday after concluding that some remains were too badly burned to identify.

Originally posted by jprophet420
Its been debated here prior to this article you posted being released, ALL of the passengers were listed and the general tone was why wasn't the dna of the hijackers listed. The answer was the list was only of victims. It did list every passenger, however. This was of all 911 flights, not just 77. Unfortunately the domain housing that information has expired. It was ALL OVER ats however with at least half a dozen threads pertaining to it. Shame on anyone who argued about it then but cant remember it now.

JP,

The only person not identified was a 3 year old child. I posted this info on the first page of this thread.

Are you sure you are not getting the Passenger/Victim list debate confused?

At Shanksville all victims were identified through dental records, DNA, and other means.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Well if the bodies were not in the Pentagon that would mean they were killed somewhere else.

and i would agree with that, its a pretty common sense statement. but, is there any evidence that the bodies were not taken from the pentagon?

As far as i know the DNA samples were collected at Dover AFB to id the bodies.

which would make sense as it would be a military medical examiner doing the testing

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
The DNA was 'gathered' at Dover? or were the remains taken there?

it would make sense that the bodies recovered would be transported there for the ME to examine and thats where/when he/she would collect the DNA samples. DNA is rarely if ever taken on scene and when theres a potential rescue op underway its even more rare to take samples at the scene. just the way it works typically

see i have no problem with where the dna was collected or tested. im just trying to understand why the location of the body recovery is in question here

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
The only person not identified was a 3 year old child. I posted this info on the first page of this thread.

www.arlingtoncemetery.net...

Remains Unidentified For 5 Pentagon Victims
Bodies Were Too Badly Burned, Officials Say
Wednesday, November 21, 2001

reply to post by ULTIMA1


Ultima.... look at your date on that. Then re-read my first several posts.

reply to post by ULTIMA1


www.arlingtoncemetery.net...

The group burial was in Section 64 of the cemetery, overlooking the Pentagon. A special headstone marks the spot.

Especially honored in the service were the families of five of the dead who did not receive remains. They were: 3-year-old Dana Falkenberg, a passenger aboard Flight 77; James T. Lynch, a Navy civilian; Navy Petty Officer First Class Ronald Hemenway; Rhonda S. Rasmussen, an Army employee; and Army Colonel (retired) Ronald F. Golinski.

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
Ultima.... look at your date on that. Then re-read my first several posts.

Yes, the new DNA testing from NIST did not come out untill 2002.

reply to post by ULTIMA1


Ultima... go back 20 pages and re-read your rant on that and how the "new" DNA testing in 2002 had NOTHING to do with the Pentagon.

*sighs*

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
Ultima... go back 20 pages and re-read your rant on that and how the "new" DNA testing in 2002 had NOTHING to do with the Pentagon.

Well there was some reason it was requested. Had to me more then just a few bodies that needed it, correct?

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Well there was some reason it was requested. Had to me more then just a few bodies that needed it, correct?

At the WTC location? Sure! More than a thousand.

At the Pentagon location? No.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Well there was some reason it was requested. Had to me more then just a few bodies that needed it, correct?

one could presume that yes, but the mechanism of death for the victims at the wtc site was different than it was at the pentagon. some of the tissue samples at the wtc site were damaged by the fall of the tower itself and then exposed to the elements for lord knows how long while they sifted through the debris at the dump site.

from a clinical standpoint, the victims of the pentagon crash werent subjected to anything that was outside the experience of medical examiners at the time so the new test was completly unneccessary for the pentagon scene.

so really, that new test had nothing to do with the pentagon. DNA testing in 2001 for "standard" cases was pretty well established and nothing new anymore. but i doubt that any ME had ever dealt with tissue samples similar to SOME of those at the wtc site.

Originally posted by Disclosed
At the Pentagon location? No.

So the bodies at the Pentagon were not subjected to fire and collaspe ?

[edit on 11-4-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
So the bodies at the Pentagon were not subjected to fire and collaspe ?

not to the degree that the ones at the WTC site were. but while i think thats a major component of the tissue degredation, if i were to pick the biggest factor id probably have to say that a lot of that human tissue was buried in that rubble pile for days/weeks/even months and those are the samples id bet needed the new tests. while they were buried they were subjected to constant heat of some kind, the severity may be varying but still warmer than ambient and still way warmer than a fridge like you'd use to store samples in a lab. also, there was way more water dumped onto the rubble piles at the wtc than there was at the pentagon and thats going to cause degredation of the tissues and make sampling more difficult.

so, its not really the fire and collapse that were the sole factors here. but even if they were...the collapse mechanism of the WTC was WAY bigger than that of the pentagon. there simply wasnt as much stuff to fall on the bodies from as high up s there would have been at the wtc.

Originally posted by Damocles
if i were to pick the biggest factor id probably have to say that a lot of that human tissue was buried in that rubble pile for days/weeks/even months and those are the samples id bet needed the new tests.

www.nist.gov...

In early November 2001, Dr. Robert Shaler, the director of the WTC DNA identification effort, contacted me and asked if I would be willing to develop some new DNA tests to help in the identification effort. I agreed to fast track our research efforts over the next several months and produce some test materials for his laboratory to try by January 2002.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
www.nist.gov...

In early November 2001, Dr. Robert Shaler, the director of the WTC DNA identification effort..

WTC DNA Identification.

Not Pentagon....WTC.

Apples and Oranges.

Originally posted by Disclosed
Not Pentagon....WTC.

And your evidnece is?

I mean if we want to post the truth.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by Disclosed
Not Pentagon....WTC.

And your evidnece is?

The evidence is the very link you provided. Your own link proves your theory is incorrect.

Thanks for posting the truth.

Originally posted by Disclosed
The evidence is the very link you provided. Your own link proves your theory is incorrect.

Please show me where in the link it states the new testing WAS NOT used at the Pentagon.

Please provide truth.

theres nothing to say that the new testing wasnt used at the pentagon, but theres also nothing, anywhere that suggests that the new test was required at the pentagon either. DNA testing for "normal" circumstances was pretty good in 2001 and from a clinical standpoint the pentagon scene was pretty mundane. bodies werent falling 1000ft inside a maelstrom of steel and concrete to then sit exposed to the elements for long periods of time while having water dumped on them. so the mechanisms that were degrading the tissue samples at the WTC were not present at the pentagon on the same scale or intensity.

but more than anything, your own links provide information that the medical examiners for the wtc scene needed a more sensitive test. theres nothing anywhere that suggests that one was required for the bodies recovered at the pentagon and to suggest said is kind of jumping to conclusions no?

Originally posted by Damocles
theres nothing to say that the new testing wasnt used at the pentagon, but theres also nothing, anywhere that suggests that the new test was required at the pentagon either.

I am simply using logic that if the DNA testing at the time was not good enough to do testing on the WTC bodies then there is a good chance it was needed at the pentagon also.