Changing my view over 9 / 11

reply to post by WEOPPOSEDECEPTION


Don't get me started about the rise in heroin addicts in my home town that I once knew. All in the last 10 years or so. I came from a small school and all, you knew everyone.

But, that's another thread and time from this one.

Nice to see the OP has at least opened their mind. Just beware that there are snakes in the grass in the "movement" also, IMO.

Rock Ape - welcome to the club.

Good luck, hope you got thick skin. It'll be needed to protect you from all the insults.

I had more typed but I lost it, stupid computer. Anyway, I wish you the best in your search for the truth.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
...his advisers were writing messages on their clipboards and holding them where the President could see them ("Do not say anything yet", "we are prepping phones" etc) 8 or 9 minutes in which the staff was securing phone lines. 8 or 9 minutes in which the Secret Service was ensuring that there wasnt a sniper or a suspicious vehicle in the vicinity of the school or along the motorcade route.

Is this what actually happened or what you think most probably happened? If it's the former, where did the information come from?

Thanks for all the positive reaction to my Thread, and I welcome the negative too, just weeks ago I would have been one of them.

this is one conspriacy theory that I can now say I believe in, due to what I've seen and read. That won't change the fact I'll be there to debunk other Conspiracy's. There are some on ATS that is just too stupid to comment on.


Peace..

Originally posted by Rock Ape
It was on old war footage of Winston Churchill, touring the bombed out remains of Coventry. He knew Coventry was going to be firebombed, as the English had broken Germany’s Enigma code, but if they’d have evacuated the city, the Germans would know we had cracked the code and changed it, so Churchill, let Coventry get firebombed to keep the secret of Enigma.

The look on both Winston Churchill and George W Bushes face was the same. A look of pure guilt and realisation at what they had done, and how many had died to keep a secret.

I'd like to see that footage. Good on you for being able to change opinion.

I think WTC7 is the clearest evidence something is not right. The third building that fell without anything touching it. Remember this type of building has never fallen before, then 3 fall on the same day for two separate reasons. Fire could not make WTC7 fall. This type have building have been known to burn for several days without falling.

I recommend you view this vid. It shows the a demolition's experts view of the pulling of WTC7. What finally convinced me that the US govt. was complicit in the attacks is that there was not enough time on 9/11 to set up the charges to pull WTC7. This can only mean the charges were set BEFORE the planes hit.

Demolition's Expert comments of the fall of WTC7

[edit on 14-3-2008 by rizla]

Originally posted by Rock Ape
That won't change the fact I'll be there to debunk other Conspiracy's. There are some on ATS that is just too stupid to comment on.

But see, that's the thing. Probably half of the things I think now, at some point in the past I could not have disagreed more.

I didn't use to think 9/11 was an inside job. I also used to consider myself republican, but now even the suggestion of anything political makes me feel sick at how blind people make themselves. Even studies have been done on political bias and how much like an ego-inflating drug it is to your brain. And I used to consider myself Christian. That's gone too now, and my whole conception of what it means to be spiritual has changed. Suddenly posts on the religion forums that I used to think were just kids trolling, ones everyone mocks, made sense to me and I actually appreciated them. Now how frightening is that. Because the way I look at things has changed so dramatically.


Now every time I read something that doesn't make sense to me or that I've never heard before, I'm hesitant, confused. I want to know what's really going through the head of the person this is coming from, because I've learned by now that I am very fallible when I make quick judgments. I would be happy though, to always be learning something new.

Originally posted by jmt18325
Exactly. There is of course a logical explanation for all off it because it is pretty much exactly as we have been told. I actually find it offensive that people believe the US gov't would kill their own citizens en mass like that.

What's your opinion on Pearl Harbour?

I'll describe it in a few words for you: A False Flag attack designed to kill their own citizens en mass.

Originally posted by coughymachine

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
...his advisers were writing messages on their clipboards and holding them where the President could see them ("Do not say anything yet", "we are prepping phones" etc) 8 or 9 minutes in which the staff was securing phone lines. 8 or 9 minutes in which the Secret Service was ensuring that there wasnt a sniper or a suspicious vehicle in the vicinity of the school or along the motorcade route.

Is this what actually happened or what you think most probably happened? If it's the former, where did the information come from?

Umm, it came from the people who were there that day.

I think WTC7 is the clearest evidence something is not right. The third building that fell without anything touching it. Remember this type of building has never fallen before, then 3 fall on the same day for two separate reasons. Fire could not make WTC7 fall. This type have building have been known to burn for several days without falling.

Except for one little thing.....

We know from video, still photos and witness statements that WTC7 was heavily damaged by WTC 1 collapsing. Additionally, we also know that WTC7 had numerous fires in about two dozen stories that burned for hours.

I hope you can handle the realization better than I did. I spent two weeks in bed, wrought with depression and fear. Almost felt like a drug withdrawl or something. I guess it was the fact that, the night before I was going to go join the army was when I made the realization about WTC7, and I kind of lost it. My concrete reality was gone.

So don't listen to those who try to accuse you of jumping on the truth wagon just so you can have a reason to hate the government or something.

They've never experienced the impact of that realization... and it's safe to assume that most people can talk themselves out of seeing something for what it really is, if what it really is breaks their comfort bubble.

To bsbray, I think maybe you've had a similar experience to mine.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999

I think WTC7 is the clearest evidence something is not right. The third building that fell without anything touching it. Remember this type of building has never fallen before, then 3 fall on the same day for two separate reasons. Fire could not make WTC7 fall. This type have building have been known to burn for several days without falling.

Except for one little thing.....

We know from video, still photos and witness statements that WTC7 was heavily damaged by WTC 1 collapsing. Additionally, we also know that WTC7 had numerous fires in about two dozen stories that burned for hours.

Yeah but WTC7 didn't have the whole building fall on top of it, like wtc 6 and some of the other buildings in the immediate vicinity of the collapse..... and somehow those buildings didn't completely crumble into fine powder and neat little pieces. From what I've seen, they were at least 50 percent still intact, if not more! Even AFTER the entire twin tower complex feel right on top of them.

reply to post by indierockalien


Then you really need to do some better research into the damage suffered by WTC 7 and the rest of the buildings.

Swampy Swampy

How I luv ya..How I luv ya, how I luv ya..
My dear ole swampy

Are u beeein paid my swampy,
don't know

swampy you r the best

swampy i can count on u for the best.


Swampy where do you get the time?

To harass the truthers all of the time?

Swampy swampy how I luv ya
My dear ole swampy!

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
We know from video, still photos and witness statements that WTC7 was heavily damaged by WTC 1 collapsing.

Every video I have seen of WT7 collapsing seems to show an intact building. Where's the damage? Please supply your evidence that there was enough damage to cause a neat collapse of the building, within its own footprint.

Additionally, we also know that WTC7 had numerous fires in about two dozen stories that burned for hours.

What's your point? Were these 25 fires, fueled by office furniture and equipment, supposed to be destructive enough to cause the total collapse of the steel frame?

Watching WTC7 collapse so neatly, so planned and with Silverstein admitting that the decision was made to 'pull it', it's very clear that this was a staged event. Hopefully more people eventually see the light, as the OP has done so.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
Umm, it came from the people who were there that day.

I'd like to read the accounts of those secret service agents for myself. Where are they posted?

I've done plenty of research, and "heavily" damaged it indeed was. It was damaged enough to where I would say "hey we better not occupy this for a while because some windows and walls are broken, some rooms are scorched, maybe a support column or two is slightly damaged, we have some decent patchwork to do...because it may be a little too drafty come mid to late Fall."

I wouldn't say it was heavily damaged enough to fall straight down into a small neat rubble pile. That is, unless some giant invisible Ninja cane and started hacking perfectly horizontally at it's base. THAT seems more plausible than what the public thinks happened. IF they even think about wtc7 at all, which they really don't because it was mentioned for like a half hour during a time where a lot of people were still on their way home from work, or out at afterschool activities, and then it was never spoken for again, until it came time to debunk it because some snoopy little rats decided to search for a better explanation for the completely mistifying things they had seen going on that day.

SwampFox, why are you here debating this so much if you think it's so bunk? If it's bunk to you, leave it alone and go watch your nightly news. This is the reason why I don't trust the hard nosed skeptics. They spend way too much time "debunking" everything, when they could just as easily walk away. Obviously, something about the information they are trying to disprove (mainly in their own minds, it seems) makes them feel a NEED to put the puppy to sleep so people will stop reminding them that it's sick and needs help, and they've got more important things to do. They'd rather leave the mess for the kids to cry about later.

Nothing will convince you until you accept that nothing within the laws of physics could prevent a conspiracy of this magnitude from happening. You just need enough people with their hands in other people's pockets. America is just the right place for something like this to happen. We're ripe with illusions that we swear by, and we're even more ripe with people and corporations willing to take advantage of our need to cling onto these illusions to line their own pockets and inflate their own egos. Hell, MARTHA STEWART is doing it!

If it can happen, it eventually will happen... and we'd been asking for it for decades. Like a previous poster, possibly in a different thread said, they murdered JFK in front of God and everyone, and nobody was the wiser. Everyone saw the event happen live, everyone saw the Zepruder film, everyone knew that people within the government had huge resentment towards Kennedy because he wanted to put the mentary system back into the people's hands, and he wanted to end the rule by secrecy in this country.... so plenty of motive on the side of the hidden hand...

yet we believed that some lone nut snuck a rifle in a book depository past quite a few people, and managed to make the most impossible shot ever, using a magic bullet that can change directions? All with no motive, other than he was crazy and wanted to be remembered for something?

Qui Bono?

Obviously not Oswald.

After all of that happened, they had all the confidence in the world that they could pull of something much bigger and get people to believe it was something completely different than what it really was. Even better, they now had 24-7 brainwashing channels, called news channels, a international network of computers sharing info, called the internet, state control of education systems was tighter, people were hopelessly infatuated with themselves, their lifestyles, and the lifestyles of others...

Ho ho ho who would know?

Obviously not enough people, because this is so obvious, once you've had your "Oh my God, everything is a lie" breakdown, and accepted that lies surround you, and come to realize how much more scrutinizing you have to be from now on, how much more you have to trust in your instincts, instead of everything you have been taught ior told of what is real. When you finally do ralize this, SwampFox, will you be on the government's no fly list? Will you be barred from leaving the state or even operating a vehicle because you disobeyed a military curfew brough about by martial law? Will you be backed into a corner without even realized it until you're already cornered and defenseles, and caught totally offguard?

Ya know, Homeland Security is hiring new recruits. You should join.

Let me remind the skeptics and the blindly patriotic of one thing. America is not a law of physics. It can be changed, it can be destroyed, rather quickly.

America is not Jesus either. America is not Ghandi. America was not founded upon freedom for all humans, just we the rich white men, excuse me.. people. America itsself is a lie.

So just becuse "Hey, we're America! YAY! Our piece of paper says pretty sounding things." doesn't mean that everything is okay.

If you don't like September 11th conspiracy theories, fine okay we don't have to use those because it's "circumstancial speculation".

We'll touch on some well documented historical examples of why you should be weary of your convictions to this country, for look at what America has done in the past:

Slavery of African Americans.

Throwing Japanese Americans into concentration Camps after we provoked them to attack us in the first place.

Killing Kent State protesters during Vietnam.

Inventing the Atomic Bomb.

Forcing people to pay outrageously for the rest of their lives because they had a serious injury or an illness, most liely caused by the poison the FDA allows in our foods, or the grueling hours Americans have to work just to barely keep their family fed.

Outsourcing much needed jobs to other countries, whilest in the midst of economic crisis....

Big Pharma

the Insurance scam

credit cards

the tuskegee experiments

unprovoked invasion of Iraq

warrantless wiretapping and spying of citizens

polluting our waters so much, it's barely drinkable

mass deforestation

MK Ultra

Project Paperclip

Letting Osama Bin Laden, number one wanted man, said to have perpetrated Sept 11th get treated at a military hospital AND THEN RELEASED

poison vaccinations

corruption of legitiamate art forms, in an attempt to make young people want more sex, money, drugs, any of the seven deadly sins... adnd in my opinion, an attempt to destroy any possible voice of reason from reaching our youth

Watergate

Bay of Pigs

East Timor

....and least we forget....

We stole this beloved country of ours from it's rightful inhabitants, the Native Americans, slaughered them by the thousands, and then when we couldn't get away with that anymore, we suffocated them into tiny little miserable Reservations, corrupted them with drugs and alcohol, and completely disenfranchised one of the most beautiful cultures on Earth today...

All in the name of freedom.

Freedom for who? Freedom for those who choose to forget what freedom actually is.

After all that, to come and say that America wouldn't do that to it's own citizens just to benefit the rich kids agendas...

You would have to be a bloody lobotomized lemming.

Give up this rediculous illusion ofAmerica, the great, and see it for what it really is. America, the bloodsucking parasite of the world.

As for the OP, once again, welcome welcome welcome. This may not be the happiest discovery of your life, but you'll be a better person after the realization has come full circle. It's not about the comfort of the ride. It's about its ability to get you where you need to go when there's no other option.

Originally posted by Leo Strauss
Swampy Swampy

How I luv ya..How I luv ya, how I luv ya..
My dear ole swampy

Are u beeein paid my swampy,
don't know

swampy you r the best

swampy i can count on u for the best.


Swampy where do you get the time?

To harass the truthers all of the time?

Swampy swampy how I luv ya
My dear ole swampy!

I never laugh reading all these 911 posts...Many brilliant minds and creative caring people...but Leo this is just absolutely perfect.I laughed out loud!

Swamp fox is becoming a legend among myself and a few friends (we are all relatively new to ATS) but we have noticed and discussed the idea that dear ole swampy was a pro.Almost every post has "the swamp factor", and I wondered where the fox finds the time.Thanks for the chuckle.

Hi Rock Ape,

My wake up call came after watching "The Falling Man" documentary. I started researching and couldn't believe what I was reading.

I spent months looking at the construction of the towers in an attempt to understand how they would withstand the damage caused, but my absolute moment of clarity came when I found a reconstruction of the lift shafts. There was only one shaft which travelled the full height of the building, and the people in that lift survived. If a fireball large enough to blow out the whole lobby and basement floors of the building had surged down that shaft, those people in the lift would have been charcoal.

I have posted the picture of the lift shafts on here before, I'll try and find it again and re-post it.

The thing I found very hard to come to terms with was that once I had accepted that the official story had to be wrong, and that if it was there must have been US government involvement, I had then to accept that the events of 7/7 in London must have been staged, and the more I looked into what happened then the more obvious it became that they were. Up till then I still had some faith in our Government.

I came to ATS so that I could hear all arguments, for and against, and I still think you get the best balance of views here.

I woke up 18 months ago and I still have days where I feel sick to my stomach - but its always better to know the truth, however painful.

Cheers

Every video I have seen of WT7 collapsing seems to show an intact building. Where's the damage?

Every video that you have seen, was taken from the side of WTC 7 opposite the damaged side. This is a major reason why so many people are confused about WTC7. They assume that the building was in a basically pristine condition until its collapse, which it was not.

Photos of WTC 1's collapse in relation to WTC 7

wtc7lies.googlepages.com...

wtc7lies.googlepages.com...

Of course, pictures are only the half of it.

What FDNY had to say about WTC 7....

A few minutes after that a police officer came up to me and told me that the façade in front of Seven World Trade Center was gone and they thought there was an imminent collapse of Seven World Trade Center. –FDNY Lieutenant William Melarango

So we go there and on the north and east side of 7 it didn’t look like there was any damage at all, but then you looked on the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors. Debris was falling down on the building and it didn’t look good. But they had a hose line operating. Like I said, it was hitting the sidewalk across the street, but eventually they pulled back too. Chris Boyle

Just moments before the south tower collapsed and, you know, when it happened we didn't know it was the south tower. We thought it was the north tower. There was a reporter of some sort, female with blond hair and her cameraman, an oriental fellow. They were setting up outside 7 World Trade Center, just east of the pedestrian bridge. I told them it would probably be better off to be set up under the bridge. At least it was protected. I was just about to enter a dialogue with her when I heard a sound I never heard before. I looked up and saw this huge cloud. I told him run. I grabbed the female, I threw her through the revolving doors of number 7.

We were proceeding inside. She fell to the ground. I helped her out, I pushed her towards the direction of where we were all in the south corner and there was a little doorway behind that desk which led into the loading bays. Everybody started to run through that. Never made it to that door. The next thing that I remember was that I was covered in some glass and some debris. Everything came crashing through the front of number 7. It was totally pitch black. EMS Division Chief Jon Peruggia

At this point, 7, which is right there on Vesey, the whole corner of the building was missing. I was thinking to myself we are in a bad place, because it was the corner facing us. –Fred Marsilla, FDNY

The whole south side of Seven World Trade had been hit by the collapse of the second Tower. – Fire Captain Brenda Berkman

wtc7lies.googlepages.com...

What's your point? Were these 25 fires, fueled by office furniture and equipment, supposed to be destructive enough to cause the total collapse of the steel frame?

More from FDNY...

We walked over by number Seven World Trade Center as it was burning and saw this 40-plus story building with fire on nearly all floors. –FDNY Lieutenant Robert LaRocca

Just when you thought it was over, you're walking by this building and you're hearing this building creak and fully involved in flames. It's like, is it coming down next? Sure enough, about a half an hour later it came down. –FDNY Lieutenant James McGlynn

TextThe concern there again, it was later in the afternoon, 2, 2:30, like I said. The fear then was Seven. Seven was free burning. Search had been made of 7 already from what they said so they had us back up to that point where we were waiting for 7 to come down to operate from the north back down. –Captain Robert Sohmer

wtc7lies.googlepages.com...

Where's the damage? Please supply your evidence that there was enough damage to cause a neat collapse of the building, within its own footprint.

Now thats another misconception, because in the end, WTC7's collapse, caused enough damage to the buidling at 30 West Broadway, that it had to be torn down.

wtc7lies.googlepages.com...

So, between the fires (plastics and other items you would find in a building do burn quite hot) and damage WTC7 suffered, it collapsed.

From another detractor:

'd like to read the accounts of those secret service agents for myself. Where are they posted?

Um, not the secret service agents, but other members of the President's staff. Where are they posted? I have no idea, I found them in BOOKS. By the way, can someone explain why all things must be posted on the internet???

SwampFox, why are you here debating this so much if you think it's so bunk? If it's bunk to you, leave it alone and go watch your nightly news

Don Quixote had windmills....I have 9/11 conspiracy nu-- theorists I mean. Hate to disillusion you, but I do not watch the "nightly news"

yet we believed that some lone nut snuck a rifle in a book depository past quite a few people, and managed to make the most impossible shot ever, using a magic bullet that can change directions?

Funny thing is, I used to believe this. However, after the most realistic reproduction ever taken on that shot, they not only showed that one man, had more than enough time for three shots, but their test actually had one bullet follow a near identical trajectory....not saying there werent some others involved but......

When you finally do ralize this, SwampFox, will you be on the government's no fly list? Will you be barred from leaving the state or even operating a vehicle because you disobeyed a military curfew brough about by martial law? Will you be backed into a corner without even realized it until you're already cornered and defenseles, and caught totally offguard?

Umm, I would seek therapy if I were you, because you are showing signs of some serious issues.

Ya know, Homeland Security is hiring new recruits. You should join

Already a member of the Air Force, have no desire to take a cut in pay.

As for Leo.......catchy tune, but no resemblance to reality.

Swamp fox is becoming a legend among myself and a few friends (we are all relatively new to ATS) but we have noticed and discussed the idea that dear ole swampy was a pro

Talking behind my back? Tsk Tsk. However, spending your time worried about lil ole me? Im touched. The idea that Im a professional....professional what? I earn my pay fixing F-16s, nothing more.