Changing my view over 9 / 11

Until a few days ago, I was always against all the 9/ 11 conspiracy theories, in fact they got on my nerves. Then the other day on discovery channel I watched a programme about the gulf war, and they did a bit on 9 / 11, they showed the planes hitting the Twin Towers and the Pentagon burning, they then showed President bush reading to a class, someone comes in tells him and they slowed the film down to a still of the president…. Not angry, not annoyed, not even slightly miffed. And it was at that moment I knew I’d seen that very look only once before.

It was on old war footage of Winston Churchill, touring the bombed out remains of Coventry. He knew Coventry was going to be firebombed, as the English had broken Germany’s Enigma code, but if they’d have evacuated the city, the Germans would know we had cracked the code and changed it, so Churchill, let Coventry get firebombed to keep the secret of Enigma.

The look on both Winston Churchill and George W Bushes face was the same. A look of pure guilt and realisation at what they had done, and how many had died to keep a secret.

I’m sorry but I couldn’t find the photo’s on the web to show you.



Peace

Im glad you have come to the most logical conclusion, and don't you think, that if Bush had just learned about a "suprise attack" on american soil of this kind of magnitude, he would head somewhere safe? He stood there in the classroom for what I believe was an extra 15-20 minutes. He may very well have been a target. This never seemed to have crossed his mind.

It's all a bunch of lies, power and money. Spread the knowledge.

The footage is seen by most people here anyway I guess. It is indeed very sad to see no response, no action, no panic at all. All people who heard of this dropped everything and could do nothing but stare at the tv in horror of what they were seeing, but he didn't respond.

To Rock Ape

Yes, and the dogpile gets really deep.

If you feel overwhelmed, as a new REALIZER, then, take a break to organize and clear your thoughts. The whole 911 mess is so far from what we would normally expect of our government officials.

When I research, I use more moderate to mainstream sites and a lot of wikipedia and I STILL come up with the same material on alternative sites!

Personally, I am NOT a no-planer ... but, there's just an entire mountain of material to cover without even touching explosives theories and other miscellaneous topics. It gets overwhelming at times. I cover mostly the political and commercial connections to the whole fiasco in my research; avoiding the engineering aspects because I'm not an engineer.

A good place to start might be here : www.cooperativeresearch.org...

And while you are there, check and see what Rumsfeld did at that same time period!

Donald Rumsfeld

Sorry, I can't fix that second link. It keeps getting cut short. To navigate to it from the main page in the first link, scroll down the categories listing to the subtopic "Day of 911" and then click on "Donald Rumsfeld"

[edit on 12-3-2008 by Trexter Ziam]


[Mod Edit- fix link]

[edit on 12/3/2008 by Sauron]

Originally posted by Rock Ape
they then showed President bush reading to a class, someone comes in tells him and they slowed the film down to a still of the president…. Not angry, not annoyed, not even slightly miffed.

Sounds like something I’d expect from a professional president, I mean would you prefer he jumped up screaming in front of the children or broke down crying? He is the President of the United States, it’s not his job to act in a panic, break down and cry or show his emotions like your asking.

Who would you prefer to be running your country? Someone who can be strong when it hits, or someone who is going to break down and become an emotional wreck?

Just think for one minute what would have been going through his mind as he was told, there he is listening to school children reading while his country is being attacked, it would take a little time to sink in and work out just want to do.

In my eyes, he acted professional and like a president should in such a position and situation.

Mikey


[edit on 12/3/2008 by Mikey84]

reply to post by Mikey84


I agree.

I want my President to sit in a classroom full of 8 year olds while our country is living through the biggest terrorist attack in United States history.

I'm glad he didn't get up and start taking control of the situation. I'm glad he just sat there dumbfounded and continued on which his shtick in the classrom. I mean, there was no need for Presidential action in that situation.

It's not like thousands of people were dying while he was sitting in that classroom. Oh....wait.

The president should have been acting when "he saw" the first plane hit the first tower. Especially since he has been getting memo's from the CIA, and warnings from all over the world stating that there was intelligence gathered of a telling plot to attack America.
www.globalpolicy.org...

www.guardian.co.uk...

archive.newsmax.com...

but that is just me.....guess that is why I am not president.

[edit on 12-3-2008 by Jeff Riff]

Originally posted by Mikey84
Sounds like something I’d expect from a professional president, I mean would you prefer he jumped up screaming in front of the children or broke down crying? He is the President of the United States, it’s not his job to act in a panic, break down and cry or show his emotions like your asking.

I'm so fed up with that excuse, why is the opposite of sitting on a chair running around in a panic whilst crying? You do know that the NORMAL procedure would've been to get him out of there. If not for him then at the VERY least for the kids he's around. He's a possible target and unless they knew he wasn't, they would've whisked him away from there in a matter of seconds.

Rock Ape, glad to see you've changed your mind! Now the only question remains, how deep does the rabbit hole go?

Rock Ape welcome to the truth!!There is a wave of new people realizing the we have been lied to. I am sure you will hear from the gallery of paid debunker hacks, msm zombies and the simply close minded. They will pummel you with name calling and straw man arguements.I have noticed the raging skeptics only last a few pages, until they feel they have ruined the thread. Then they fade away...Recognize the names (they are a small yet vocal bunch) and then ignore them.And then strap yourself in for a mountain of evidence...And more comes every week.

Originally posted by Mikey84
Who would you prefer to be running your country? Someone who can be strong when it hits, or someone who is going to break down and become an emotional wreck?

[edit on 12/3/2008 by Mikey84]

I'd like someone with an ounce of intelligence, who thinks: "Gee my location is highly publicized I should probably excuse myself from this class and get out of here".

Or, perhaps, someone who wants to defend the nation from OTHER PLANES HITTING, who will step into action the very instance they realize the nation is under attack. (You know like make sure our fighters will get into the air and fly the right direction toward any other planes that are off course)




vs.


[edit on 3/13/08 by Angry Danish]

Rock Ape,

I agree they sure were not counting on Farenheit 911 at the movie theatres were they?

When I saw him just sitting there I knew something was very wrong.

Just weeks before 9/11 bush was in Italy for a G8 conference and they mounted an anti aircraft battery on top of his hotel! That was because there was good intelligence that terrorists planned to strike using aircraft as a weapon!

If they knew nothing about this attack he should have been whisked away immediately! Remember folks they did not know the origin of the attack.
Could have been the Russians for all they knew. How long does it take for a missile fired from a sub off the coast of Florida to hit that classroom?

Remember they said they didn't know what was going on!! Seemed pretty relaxed about the President's security for being "under attack".

[edit on 13-3-2008 by Leo Strauss]

Numerous Squibs (mis-timed explosions) can be seen seen 20 to 40 floors ahead of the advancing "collapse". NIST claims that they are "puffs of air" created from the pancaking floors above. But there are no pancaking floors above, they are not air but pulverized building materials, they occur precisely at the center of the building in an "open office plan", and finally they occur at over 100 feet per second — explosive speed!

The concrete and other building contents were pulverized to a thick ground hugging pyroclastic dust — much of which was

Reports of Sights and Sounds of Explosions in the Oral Histories

The oral histories released on August 12, 2005 contain many recollections of the sights and sounds of explosions. The excerpts on this page describe perceptions of the South Tower collapse, except where noted otherwise.


Rich Banaciski -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 22]
We were there I don't know, maybe 10, 15 minutes and then I just remember there was just an explosion. It seemed like on television they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was going all the way around like a belt, all these explosions.
Interview, 12/06/01, New York Times

Brian Becker -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 28]
So I think that the building was really kind of starting to melt. We were -- like, the melt down was beginning. The collapse hadn't begun, but it was not a fire any more up there. It was like -- it was like that -- like smoke explosion on a tremendous scale going on up there.
Interview, 10/09/01, New York Times

Greg Brady -- E.M.T. (E.M.S.) [Battalion 6]
We were standing underneath and Captain Stone was speaking again. We heard -- I heard 3 loud explosions. I look up and the north tower is coming down now, 1 World Trade Center.
...
We were standing in a circle in the middle of West Street. They were talking about what was going on. At that time, when I heard the 3 loud explosions, I started running west on Vesey Street towards the water. At that time, I couldn't run fast enough. The debris caught up with me, knocked my helmet off.
Interview, , New York Times

Timothy Burke -- Firefigter (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 202]
Then the building popped, lower than the fire, which I learned was I guess, the aviation fuel fell into the pit, and whatever floor it fell on heated up really bad and that's why it popped at that floor. That's the rumor I heard. But it seemed like I was going oh, my god, there is a secondary device because the way the building popped. I thought it was an explosion.
Interview, 01/22/02, New York Times

Ed Cachia -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 53]
It actually gave at a lower floor, not the floor where the plane hit, because we originally had thought there was like an internal detonation explosives because it went in succession, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then the tower came down. With that everybody was just stunned for a second or two, looking at the tower coming down.
Interview, 12/06/05, New York Times

Frank Campagna -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 11]
There was nobody in the intersection, nobody in the streets in general, everyone just saying come on, keeping coming, keep coming. That's when [the North Tower] went. I looked back. You see three explosions and then the whole thing coming down. I turned my head and everybody was scattering. From there I don't know who was who. I don't even know where my guys went. None of us knew where each other were at at that point in time.
Interview, 12/04/01, New York Times

Craig Carlsen -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 8]
I guess about three minutes later you just heard explosions coming from building two, the south tower. It seemed like it took forever, but there were about ten explosions. At the time I didn't realize what it was. We realized later after talking and finding out that it was the floors collapsing to where the plane had hit.
...
You did hear the explosions [when the North Tower came down]. Of course after the first one -- the first one was pretty much looking at in like in awe. You didn't realize that this was really happening because you kind of just stood there and you didn't react as fast as you thought you were going to. The second one coming down, you knew the explosions. Now you're very familiar with it.
Interview, 01/25/02, New York Times

911research.wtc7.net...

reply to post by Rock Ape


Welcome to the fold Ape. Its a long and winding hole you're about to discover but never feel like you are alone. You are not a kook, and you are no less an American. You are someone with an opinion based on the facts presented. You are in good company.

Im glad you have come to the most logical conclusion, and don't you think, that if Bush had just learned about a "suprise attack" on american soil of this kind of magnitude, he would head somewhere safe? He stood there in the classroom for what I believe was an extra 15-20 minutes. He may very well have been a target. This never seemed to have crossed his mind.

Umm, no, he did not spend an extra 15-20 minutes in the classroom. 8 or 9 is closer to reality. 8 or 9 minutes in which his advisers were writing messages on their clipboards and holding them where the President could see them ("Do not say anything yet", "we are prepping phones" etc) 8 or 9 minutes in which the staff was securing phone lines. 8 or 9 minutes in which the Secret Service was ensuring that there wasnt a sniper or a suspicious vehicle in the vicinity of the school or along the motorcade route. Face it, IF my intention was to take out the President on a day like that, I would have had someone move into position after the Pres was in the building to wait for the Service to do something stupid like rush him away from a safe building in response to an attack over 1,200 miles away.

Examine any or all of the following:

Wall street investors and a massive, inordinate amount of put options. A massive spike of last minute trades routed through the WTC computer centers hours and minutes before strikes

Collapse of WTC7 when 58 perimeter and 25 core columns fail simultaneously, not addressed by the 911 Commission and no mention in the final report

Hard realities about the economic viability - and major, upcoming and legally required renovations to the WTC twin towers exceeding $200 million each

Unexplained, unaddressed and secretive rennovations at various areas of each towers in the months prior to 911

Mysterious, extensive construction and unparalleled power black outs at WTC towers the weekend before 911, mostly throughout the nights - video cameras don't function

Bomb and explosives sniffing dog patrols are discointinued in both WTC towers just days proir to the attacks

Pronounced, unmistakable pre-impact flashes at the point of airliner contact with both WTC towers

Each tower was struck precisely into a large, highly secure and crutial computer center

FAA chief Norman Mineta's key testimony that sharply contradicted Cheney's version of the events at the command center ommited from the 911 Commission's report

Bush and Cheney appear before the Commission together, not sworn, no transcript or notes are allowed nor is a disclosure to the public

Pentagon's world class missile defense systems non functional on 911

The suddenly discovered and missing 2.3 trillion dollars that the pentagon couldn't account for just days before the attacks - forgotten, undiscussed, a non factor post 911

All potential intercept fighters flying at less than half speed

Numerous video tapes showing the pentagon impact confiscated - and remain classified

No airliner seats or luggage at the impact point of the pentagon. Large, mysterious and sealed conatiners whisked from the site - the entire three acre lawn at impact site covered by gravel and dirt the next day

Marvin Bush, brother of the president

Prior removal of anti-terrorism czar Richard Clark from the president's inner circle

The entire US intelligence system blinking red as never in history

Unprecedented warnings from a number of foreign intelligence agencies, including Russia

Anti terror funding significantly cut by the Bush administration in the months prior to 911

The "bin Laden determined to strike on US soil " DPB - and many others, ignored

PNAC, objectives, motives, proposals and key members

Plan to attack and occupy Iraq on the president's desk months before the 911 attacks

Vice president Cheney's May 8, 2001 appointment to head all US air defense operations

The Oct 10 scheduled military war games were moved up to Sept 11, 2001 - never addressed

An FAA manager destroyed, (and scattered), the records of the false radar blips and other details that were ostensibly part of the war drills on the morning of 911 - he was never interviewed nor mentioned by the 911 Commission

Countless persons in and around the WTC towers independently describing numerous and massive post impact explosions, several from the tower's basement areas and 20 to 70 minutes after the initial strikes and just prior to each collapse

Unusual and vigorous clean up and destruction of evidence at the largest crime scene in American history - much of the steel sold and quickly shipped to China

Numerous puddles of once molten steel in the remains of the towers. Unexplained, intense fires far exceeding the temperatures of those fed by jet fuel in the towers

The "dancing Jews"

Bush/bin Laden family ties

Bush/Saudi connections

The FBI's halting of investigations into at least 2 of the future suicide pilot's training at flight schools

The close associations of many of the hijackers with official US government agencies and personell

The magic passport

Missing, unfound, vanished or destroyed airliner black boxes at the WTC towers

The 911 Commission conclusion that "..the financing of the 911 suicide hijack operation is ultimately of little consequence..."

Not one of the alledged hijacker's names appears on any of the flight's passenger lists

Six to ten of the alledged hijackers are alive and working, most in the middle east

Each of these central points and aspects of the 911 attacks gives pause to any sensible person seeking the truth. Taken in tandem, a stunning sequence of miraculous coincidences accompanied equally stunning unexplained, ignored and supressed ineptitude throughout US air defenses, namely, command and control.

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999



Exactly. There is of course a logical explanation for all off it because it is pretty much exactly as we have been told. I actually find it offensive that people believe the US gov't would kill their own citizens en mass like that.

reply to post by jmt18325


Well we wouldn't want you to be offended! Read ExpertTexpert's post (so very well put), forget about your "feelings" and do some research. It is horrible to realize the implications but people asking and questioning these events are not trying to offend you, they are searching for the truth.Cheers.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
Face it, IF my intention was to take out the President on a day like that, I would have had someone move into position after the Pres was in the building to wait for the Service to do something stupid like rush him away from a safe building in response to an attack over 1,200 miles away.

Since it is claimed that they weren't able to track the planes. How can you sit there and say ANY building is safe?

Think about that.

Don't forget the billions to be made by getting opium production in Afghanistan back on track.