The state of 9/11 Truth: not pretty

Originally posted by BlueRaja
9/11 Truthers share one thing in common. Flawed scientific method with regards to what constitutes evidence to support a theory. They all share at least the belief that the official story couldn't be true. Some believe that it was an inside job. Some believe Bush wasn't directly involved but let us get attacked. Some believe other variations on those themes. None can come to an agreement on what happened, or how. Why is this? Because they first established a theory, and then have tried to work backwards to find evidence, to support their theory. If they can't find evidence, or evidence disproves their theory, they don't change their mind. They simply start working a different angle. They also share another trait- any attempt to discredit them is obviously the work of government disinfo agents, or by uninformed/unenlightened sheeple.
They turn a blind eye to huge logical flaws in some of the various theories, yet say it's up to non CTers to prove that what appeared to happen, did in fact happen, while refusing to prove what they're claiming to have happened, did in fact happen.

And it is quotes and logic such as this that only serve to obfuscate the actual truth for the purpose of discrediting others, whom do not share their view. This is a blatant and pathetic attempt and for the record it does not deter me from where I stand on this issue. As far as who did when only they know that, the evidence will speak for itself and it will tell the jurors just exactly, whom did what and when and how and why. That is not the job of any Truther or Freedom Fighter and they know it just as much as you do. You are just to ashamed to admit that you could have been played like a harp. I guess all of that training at the CIA has paid off for you eh? (that was a joke BTW).

reply to post by jthomas


If they are wrong then can somebody please explain the explosions ?

I heard them myself.

Hundreds of others reported them.

Also why is John Gross telling lies?



Amongst those who were there and their families many serious doubts remain and I don't see why there is such zeal in attacking anyone who asks questions

The bottom line is that with EX-CIA Officials such as Ray McGovern and Robert Baer coming forward to say that there is a cover up coupled with a ten second collapse and many other "anomalies "and "coincidences" and your story starts to look pretty flimsy.

I wonder why so many people come online to say it was an inside job?

Are they all crazy ?

P.S No planers and hologram people are crazy and I call them out as liars, nuts or both.




[edit on 11/3/2008 by SButlerv2]

Originally posted by patriot jim
I have been a 911 truther for 5 years. Yes, it seems that there all kind of theories of what happened, etc. But to put it very simply, we have only one account of what happened- the official story given by our ( well not "our" ) government. And under further scrutiny this official story does not add up at all. And because of this the the most important thing to tell others is that we need to reopen a very independent investigation into 911. It's really that simple- no need to talk about what we think happened, etc, etc. This is how I have spread the truth seed.

A new independent investigation... What is stopping you? Are you waiting for someone to do it for you? This goes for ALL 9/11 truthers.

Yeah, you can sit around and complain about the "man" holdin ya down. OR you can get off your duffs and do somethin' about it. Conduct your own Indepenent investigation (no one is stopping you)-- gather every piece of documentation, every clue you can, conduct countless interviews, and when you feel you have run out of options, put your money where your mouth is and hire a lawyer, or a team of lawyers to help you proceed, make connections and develop rapport with people that can further your research, don't say "you can't" don't accept "no" for an answer... just do it.

That's the problem, everyone wants a handout, a cliffnotes, a cheat sheet, and ironically most of them want that hand-out from the very goverment they accuse of heinous crimes... it's like a bratty child,

"We want it"-- you get it-- "We don't like it"-- Sorry, that is what we have-- "Give me a different one" -- Why? All you do is complain-- "I HATE you!!"

And BTW if what is needed is a new investigation-- then WHAT exactly do you call all the "alternative" postulation for the last 6.5 years? I think it is independent investigation. (micro-analyzation in many cases) The only problem is the investigations are done by amateurs, and people out of their area of expertise, and the results show it.

So really, one might think that when people say "We need a new investigation" it is really a cry for help-- help from competent people who really know how to investigate, in the wild hopes that someone-somewhere can re-do everything that has been done thousands of times-- but this time produce a resonable fact-based conclusion that agrees with the subversive viewpoints. A call for a "Messiah of Truth" to save the helpless and downtrodden.. Tell ya what, save yourself--don't wait for someone to do it for you, or you may be waiting for a long time.


[edit on 11-3-2008 by Taxi-Driver]

I would just like to share a general public point of view on this discussion.

Opinion:

First you have to acknowledge that not everyone knows that there is a problem with the official story. True. I hear new folks regularly say they just stumbled across information suggesting 9-11 may not be what it was presented to be. Not everyone knows.

The general public that does think something is wrong assumes that if there is a group of people out there who have been working on proving this all these years...surely there would be something actionable after all this time if 9-11 was not as our government presented. The general public that knows something isn't right is way past wanting "truth" as an outcome. They want actionable prosecution and justice. When I read stories in the mainstream that say there were over 900 lies by this administration that took us to war in Iraq....and yet there is a new and different topic headline the next day...I learn that TRUTH is overrated. 9-11 doesn't need your "truth" any more. There is a lot of "truth" about what really happened out there through many people's hard work. 9-11 needs actionable justice and a better end goal. The goal can't be just "truth". The goal has to be what you can do with this "truth".

Otherwise....we continue to lose. And, everyone of us needs to spend the rest of our lives apologizing as Americans to the nations of this world that we "gave up" and the bad guys won. People like Adm. Fallon are standing in very lonely places trying to maintain some integrity in America as a country. Eventually...good people...give up...are forced out...or believe that the will of the American people is not with them to keep up the good fight. Change will only come when there is a more collective will among the people. The spark, astonishingly, has yet to ignite this will among people.

So, in closing, and this is just an opinion from Ms. Public, 9-11 Truth loses with the name alone. Truth won't get it anymore. Only actionable justice can. People have lost faith in truth as producing any outcome. Remember why we are in Iraq. Since when did deliberately lying to America become so yesterday's news and not a criminal act? When you can answer that question....you may have a new end goal. Truth must equal justice or it really doesn't matter, except in history class.

Peace

[edit on 11-3-2008 by DancedWithWolves]

reply to post by Taxi-Driver


I agree, it does not look good.

But I will do what I can aside from posting.

Educating those around you goes a long way and is the way to real progress I think.

I think about it every day while the majority cares more about the super bowel.

I am not here to try and convert, merely just trying to let them know what I experienced.

In the end I think they could care less.
I have seen guys in Bentleys laugh at the Truthers.

Why jthomas you started a thread!

Did Langley institute a proactive approach???

Well jthomas we are growing and growing and I think you know that!

This is not a sprint it is a marathon and do you hear those footsteps jthomas??

We want our questions answered and there is absolutely nothing you can do about that!!

reply to post by Leo Strauss


Crap did I step in some Doo-Doo yeah .... um I dont want anything to do with Company People.

Originally posted by Leo Strauss
Why jthomas you started a thread!

Did Langley institute a proactive approach???

Well jthomas we are growing and growing and I think you know that!

This is not a sprint it is a marathon and do you hear those footsteps jthomas??

We want our questions answered and there is absolutely nothing you can do about that!!

Growing? That's rich Here is a current Alexa rating graph showing Barney the purple dinosaur getting more hits than 4 popular truther sites-- COMBINED. Keep in mind that most barney-fans lack the net navigation skills to even access Barney.com, due to them being illiterate babies and all.. Growing?

reply to post by Taxi-Driver


Barney the Purple Dinosaur. Nice comparison taxi????

reply to post by Leo Strauss


He is just saying the obvious.

The masses don't give a crap about each other.

Our strength lie with us educating those around us that have potential.

Whats the point of trying to wake up someone that has no use ?

Originally posted by Leo Strauss
reply to post by Taxi-Driver

 

Barney the Purple Dinosaur. Nice comparison taxi????

I know! It really puts things into perspective does it not? I mean small children go through "Barney phase" for about 2-3 years and most kids absolutely HATE Barney, yet this characters website is 4 times as popular as some of the most notable Truther sites.

Ok -- More fun with Alexa Webratings! Lets see how Hot Wheels (those cool little toy cars we all know and love) compare to the Truth "Big boys"

Hotwheels.com VS. Rense.com, Prisonplanet.com, Loosechange, and We Are Change.. This outta be fun!



It looks like Barney and Hot wheels are GROWING in interest, and "tha truth" is really on a steep decline... Perhaps people don't like being lied to? Ya Think?

[edit on 12-3-2008 by Taxi-Driver]

you would think at least ONE reporter would show...

the fact that none of them did is obviously the result of them being told NOT to go...

Originally posted by Odessy
you would think at least ONE reporter would show...

the fact that none of them did is obviously the result of them being told NOT to go...

Yeah... or it's a been there done that, same old song and dance type of time-wasting situation.

Just think if it had been an exclusive interview with Barney the purple dinosaur the chances of a reporter showing up could be up to FOUR times as much... due solely on his Internet popularity..BWAHAHAH

reply to post by Taxi-Driver

OK taxi here ya go





JREF is the one at the bottom!

And? What do you think that says?

It only reinforces the fact that people just don't care about this issue on a large scale. And the number is shrinking.

And FYI Barney.com is on the bottom-- Remember? The site that was FOUR times as popular as some of the most notable truther sites? But it really is moot.

I think JREF and ATS are cool places.. and have much more to offer than just the "conspiracy forums."



[edit on 12-3-2008 by Taxi-Driver]

OK, now I'm calling obfuscation. I don't know of any truther who has ever doubted there was an attack. Some do doubt who carried out the attack - true

My personal question is Why? Why was there a total failure in a system that successfully defended our skies for over 56 years. Why did Cheney not give a contrary order when the plane (flight 77) was 10 miles out? Why did Bush finish the story about the little goat and not get torn out of that room as if he were on fire. (the whole damn world knew his exact location). Why were 86 pages of text removed from the original 9/11 commission report. Why the record "put" options on American and United (which is now being investigated by Kucinich). Why are the windows intact where the 6 ton engines impacted the Pentagon at over 500 miles per hour after this relative pilot "retard" executed a 270 degree turn?

These are "a few" of the questions that I as "one" American have and I deserve answers to them especially given the absolute decimation of the Constitution that I swore to defend as a result of this very questionable event.

Well, GO FIND THE ANSWERS-- And DON"T TAKE "NO" FOR AN ANSWER.

Time for questions is OVER. Do your own dang investigation if it is that important to you. Spend every dime, every resource you have to get to the bottom of this if that is what it takes.. But don't just Ask questions-- it only wastes your precious time, when you could be actually doing something to resolve this. ( and no, I am not taking about holding up a sign, or making a youtube video either)

Just my .02

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

-- John F. Kennedy

Just what are you suggesting?

I am suggesting that people find the answers to their hackeneyed, redundant questions. Because sitting around expecting some Truth messiah to come down and give you the answers *you want to hear* just ain't gonna happen. Making youtube videos, disrupting political rallies, standing in the cold with a sign with a web-address on it ain't gonna make it happen. I am saying, if this issue is so important to you do everything (within the law) in your power to resolve it, so as you don't feel inclined to stay stuck in 2001 for god sakes.

1000 invitation and 0 attendance ?

Cannot be !
Possibilities :
- the invitations were intercepted
- all journalist are bought by the NWO
- all journalists must take a test before they are hired , so they are docile and always remain in the box where their bosses put them. And the bosses have been fooled to think that asking anything about 9/11 is aiding the terrorists. Or the bosses work with the NWO
- all journalists are not any of the above, but all know about 9/11 and are scared to lose their job if they attend the meeting
- all journalists think that 9/11 was a real terrorist attack and do not want to lose their job writing anything else, and they are used to not thinking much
- all of them received a threat that told them not to go there
- all of them do not think for themselves ! Mind altering machines were put at work against them ! ( crazy this theory is but this is a conspiracy forum and all other theories from above do not make more sense)

1000 is a big number. Not even 1 is very strange. Are they really all sheep ? Nobody think for themselves these days, especially no journalists. So one of those theories from the above must be true, I mean not even 1 curious about it ? Or courageous enough to go ?

What this shows : we are doomed




[edit on 12-3-2008 by pai mei]