Do you think Judas should be forgiven for betraying Jesus?

Whether you believe the story to have occurred or not makes little difference. This is open to any interpretation as a tale of morals. On one side you have Jesus who we will call the innocent victim who judges no one. On the other hand, we have Judas who betrays Jesus' trust by selling him for monetary gain.

This act would be forgivable according to Jesus testimony that all sins are forgiven, but by killing the man who forgives, he can no longer forgive you for he is dead. You now have no accuser other than yourself for your act.

Does Judas apparent spat of remorse and then supposed suicide an act of a guilty conscious, and should he be forgiven at all? His victim appeals that he should be forgiven, so I guess I am asking the believers here WWJD?

I know my own answer and I know some of you enough to know your answers, but there are those on ATS who are new and it would be nice to hear some fresh insights and commentary on this perplexing account of a guy who killed a guy who forgives him then kills his self in an attempt at some type of reconciliation.

What you peeps think about all this?

Are we ignoring the possibility that JC may have asked Judas to inform the authorities of his whereabouts?

If we are.

Then Judas was probably lucky he strung himself up, because who knows what might have happened to him if the other eleven had found him... then again maybe they did string him up.

I'd go with, Judas hanging himself was more an act of love than one of reconciliation.

MonKey

Okei' I will Not Put Some Direct Passage Yet (^^,)

The BIBLE Says It is a Sin to Commit Suicide

Some people believe since Jesus had not yet died and been resurrected that Judas would not have been under grace. Therefore, he would have been damned (unless he did something unmentioned to atone under Jewish law).

But since he was so remorseful, I like to think he was forgiven. The thief at the cross was also forgiven even though Jesus had not yet died. Just an opinion. There's no way to really know.

Originally posted by AshleyD
There's no way to really know.

I'd like to think that we should know, so that we can understand Christ. Place yourself in his shoes (Jesus) and ask yourself that question of your belief system.

Of course this is all hypothetical, but we are called to understand what we believe, so there you have it.

To answer ChiKeyMonKey, let's assume/ignore that Jesus was in on it, because that would make the act more devious. This way, we can see if Jesus would forgive the guy who set him up to be killed for 30 silver coins.

Could any of you do it?

Perhaps the answer to Judas can be found by looking at Peter and his denial of Jesus three times. Jesus laid it down plainly that if any man denied him, he would deny that man before the father. You can imagine how Peter felt, doing this not just once, but three times in a row. The scriptures state that when Peter denied Jesus, it was then he had a flash back and remembered the words of Jesus, which then, as the scriptures show, Peter went out and wept bitterly.

If we go back before the whole incident, Jesus knew Peter was going to deny him, but, also, Jesus told Peter that he would pray for Peter that his faith would not fail, and added, “When thou art converted (turned back) strengthen your brothers.”

Now, if you look at Judas, the only thing that we see concerning his act against Christ is that Judas repented, in that he returned the money, but went straight out and hanged himself. The scripture states concerning him that he purchased a field with the reward of iniquity in which he hung himself, falling and bursting wide open in that field.

To answer the opening question then, I guess you have to look at the mind of Jesus, where Peter was concerned and all he said about Peter and then what scripture states regarding Judas, and it becomes evident that Jesus showed compassion and forgiveness toward Peter, but you do not find this in regard to Judas.

Originally posted by ben91069
I'd like to think that we should know

We can speculate but unless we are told point blank (which we are not) there is no way to really know. It would seem to me he would have been forgiven. There is nothing in the Bible about suicide being an unforgivable sin and since Judas was remorseful and tried to right his wrong, it's nice to think he was forgiven just like the thief on the cross.

However, there are some other passages that seem to refer to Judas as being in hot water. I leave that in God's hands and know He saw Judas' sorrow and remorse.

Judas' fate has been debated by theologians for 2,000 years so it is impossible to say either way.

reply to post by AshleyD

That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place. (Acts 1:25)

I think this scripture is where the idea regarding suicide being a grievous sin in the eyes of God stems from, focusing on the statement, “that he might go to his own place,” that is, that he might return to the place prepared before time for him, which some interpret as , hell.

Like you have stated, for lack of evidence within scripture, the only mention of sin being unforgivable, as we know, is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Which the majority believes to be the total rejection of Christ and His atonement on the cross.

You mentioned Judas’ remorse, and, if you look at his statement concerning how he had betrayed innocent blood. He realized he betrayed the Son of God so, we might be able to say, he in fact knew Jesus was the Son of God and went to his grave with that mind set.

As was the case with my previous post, I may be able to look in scripture and on the surface level see where he wasn’t forgiven, but, as you have conveyed, on the heart level, and what was actually going on within Judas at that time, only God knows that. And, you are correct, you have to apply that here, as well, especially concerning Christians who have fallen victim to suicide. I can't allow myself to be ignorant of the fact, for one to reach that point in life, the amount of pain within the heart has to be very unbearable and acknowledge, only God can feel the pain that individual is experiencing and judge it rightly.

Do I think he should be, or do I think he will be? If it is the latter all I can say is "ALL flesh shall see the Salvation of GOD.." Luke 3:6 I have to say yes to both accounts.. However, that is a matter between him and God, not for me to decide.

[edit on 11-3-2008 by SpeakerofTruth]

I can’t help but believe Judas was forgiven even before his betrayal. Jesus knew he would betray him before Judas knew he would betray him. It was God’s plan and we never would have received salvation if it wasn’t for many things including the betrayal. Jesus even tells him "What you are about to do, do quickly,".

Doesn’t that mean he went with Jesus’ approval? Evil and sin are not in God so how could he approve and support evil or sin? (Please no right turn to Job )

John 13:18-30

18"I am not referring to all of you; I know those I have chosen. But this is to fulfill the scripture: 'He who shares my bread has lifted up his heel against me.'

19"I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am He. 20I tell you the truth, whoever accepts anyone I send accepts me; and whoever accepts me accepts the one who sent me."

21After he had said this, Jesus was troubled in spirit and testified, "I tell you the truth, one of you is going to betray me."

22His disciples stared at one another, at a loss to know which of them he meant. 23One of them, the disciple whom Jesus loved, was reclining next to him. 24Simon Peter motioned to this disciple and said, "Ask him which one he means."

25Leaning back against Jesus, he asked him, "Lord, who is it?"

26Jesus answered, "It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish." Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, son of Simon. 27As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him.

"What you are about to do, do quickly," Jesus told him, 28but no one at the meal understood why Jesus said this to him. 29Since Judas had charge of the money, some thought Jesus was telling him to buy what was needed for the Feast, or to give something to the poor. 30As soon as Judas had taken the bread, he went out. And it was night.

[edit on 3/11/2008 by kinglizard]

I think that idea comes from the gnostic Gospel of Judas. I don't subscribe to it because it tends to paint the whole crucification as a human contrivance.

The Gospel of Judas, however, gives a very different account.

The text begins by announcing that it is the "secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation with Judas Iscariot during a week, three days before he celebrated Passover."

It goes on to describe Judas as Jesus' closest friend, someone who understands Christ's true message and is singled out for special status among Jesus' disciples.

In the key passage Jesus tells Judas, "'you will exceed all of them. For you will sacrifice the man that clothes me.'"

Kasser, the translation-project leader, offers an interpretation: "Jesus says it is necessary for someone to free him finally from his human body, and he prefers that this liberation be done by a friend rather than by an enemy.

"So he asks Judas, who is his friend, to sell him out, to betray him. It's treason to the general public, but between Jesus and Judas it's not treachery."

National Geographic


I do think he is forgiven. I also don't think he's the great villain hes made out to be. He did realize his mistake and feel remorse which we all know is not always the case. There plenty of examples of unremorseful killers. Judas really was just a tattle-tale, hardly a Dr Evil.

Should Judas be forgiven for betraying Jesus? The answer is clear. In fact the answer is obvious -- YES!

Jesus, hanging on the Cross, looked upward towards the Heavens and, in a clear voice, He spoke to His Father;
Forgive them, father, for they know not what they do.” (Luke 32:34)

With this one line, Jesus underscored all of His teachings while on Earth. Instead of vengeance and an "eye for eye", Jesus demonstrated that we need to forgive those who transgress / trespass against us.

With this one line, Jesus forgave the Pharisees (i.e., the Jews), the Romans, the people who stood and stared, doing nothing at the sight of an innocent man being crucified. And, with this same one line, Jesus forgave Judas.








[edit on 3/11/2008 by benevolent tyrant]

It's definately not our place to judge Judas, let alone anyone.


Judas was blessed to have even seen Christ's "day". We are lucky God chose to come off his mountain, leave his dwelling place in Jerusalem to seek personal relationships with us on an individual basis.

We weren't there, but everyone knows the drill - repent and you will be forgiven.

I think it's probable he repented and was forgiven.

reply to post by benevolent tyrant



That's a really excellent thought BT.

I never extended that prayer past the Jewish leaders and roman soldiers.

Wish I could applaud my fellow mods.



Edit:

Thinking about this further Judas did know that he was turning over the son of God so does Jesus last prayer of forgiveness ("Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.") really apply to Judas since he clearly knew what he was doing?

I mean the Jewish leadership didn’t know what they were doing nor did the roman soldiers so it seems the prayer was only for them.

Thoughts?

[edit on 3/11/2008 by kinglizard]

If Jesus died for our sins, does that not include Judas? He more than most would be in need of forgiveness.

Father forgive them, for they know not what they do. He doesn't single anyone out as being undeserving.

We cannot judge, that is all I have to say.

Personallhy I would have to say yes. To me God isn't that small and not only that but when I look at it I can't see how I could condemn the pawn that really set up the ultimate checkmate. He had his purpose and played the pivitol role in it, you can't really hate on him for it because he made the whole situation possible.

If Judas were in fact asked to do what he did in the Book of Judas, then why does it mention that Satan entered him and that he also felt remorse after the fact?

If he was just carrying out orders, then wouldn't that mean God told him to do what he did instead of Satan? Also, why the remorse if he was asked to double-cross his friend Jesus? Maybe he wasn't forgiven at all not because of what he did, but that he felt guilt, which is denying the gift that Jesus promised to those who believe.

reply to post by kinglizard


This is one way to answer your question, KL.

Judas betrayed Jesus, knowing full well He was the Son of God.
Peter denied Jesus, knowing full well He was the Son of God.

The thief at the cross was forgiven.
Judas, who was obviously remorseful, could very well have been forgiven.

The thief was 'offered grace' prior to Jesus' death.
Judas could have been 'offered grace' when he died prior to Jesus' death.

So, the Jews and Romans as a whole might not have known, but Peter and Judas sure did. If Peter and the thief were saved after being remorseful and knowing Jesus was the Son of God, Judas could have been as well since he was remorseful and knew Jesus was the Son of God.

What Jesus said at the cross didn't even have to pertain to that group. At least for Judas' sake, let's hope.

well, considering that if it wasn't judas it would have had to have been someone else to get things to go the way they were supposed to, i think the guy would deserve a pass for that one act and be judged according to all prior actions.

the guy had a pivotal role in the plot, so any reasonable being (especially one that's omniscient) would forgive the foreseeable trespass