Have Christians Been Duped?

reply to post by justamomma

While I think you are wise for the path you took, some will understand the words. It was not meant to be understood by all. It was a call to a certain people that had been scattered in the world.

Yes, I totally agree. And now is the time that these ones are being called forward to teach a new reality and a far better one!

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
I've always thought that religion evolved. Maybe Christianity is just evolving right now... or is the evolution of anything against their beliefs?

Religion can evolve - but only micro-evolve, not macro-evolve. Catholicism can give way to Protestantism - as they're the same "kind" of religion. However, it's impossible for Judaism to change to Christianity, or Christianity to Islam.

reply to post by Lasheic

Religion can evolve - but only micro-evolve, not macro-evolve. Catholicism can give way to Protestantism - as they're the same "kind" of religion. However, it's impossible for Judaism to change to Christianity, or Christianity to Islam.

I guess the definition depends on what we are talking of. Christianity has changed in that they can be more militant (Evangelicals) and have pulled away from Jesus original teachings.

But the original doctrines ie: trinity, hellfire, immortality of the human soul, the cross, the rapture, have not changed with the times, and with information coming forward (especially about the Bible) that should alter one's thinking, at least to some extent, but isn't.

Anyone who believes the Bible is the word of God has been duped.

Men wrote the bible and men rewrote pieces of it and assembled it, with no help from God.

The OT is a propaganda piece for Jews, and the NT is a propaganda piece for Christians..

Both were written to gain power by forming a group to donate money and help the authorities behind them take over the world.

reply to post by Kailassa


And one of the greatest parts to this conspiracy is this simple piece of the pie. Jesus will come back. He will come back with an army.

See the problem with this right? It's just crazy that I used to buy this crap. The best way to keep something going is to give a VAGUE date "he will return". This way each generation that passes on without this event happening will NEVER know that they were duped because it will conveniently be during the NEXT generation that it happens. Until that generation passes on.

People thought it was supposed to take place during the turn of the first millenia. Well, it didn't. Then it was the second. Well, it didn't. Now it will be pushed off for many more generations until a NEW version comes along and replaces the old.

Having faith is a good thing. Having faith in mankind, your family, yourself...

Having blind faith in something that has never provided any real evidence is tough.

Do I believe in God? Sure. I truly do. Do I believe that a man (MAN) named Jesus lived roughly 2000 years ago? Yes. Do I believe HIS message was manipulated and twisted. Yup.

reply to post by Kailassa


Yes!

But, you probably already know my perspective as you have posted on some of my other threads.

The joke is on us. But how far to carry the joke is what I find fascinating. I think that there is truth behind the joke and it eliminates both sides.

reply to post by dariousg

Do I believe in God? Sure. I truly do. Do I believe that a man (MAN) named Jesus lived roughly 2000 years ago? Yes. Do I believe HIS message was manipulated and twisted. Yup.

Ya, we agree. Is it possible that he is actually here now, only behind the scenes? I ask, because there is an inordinate amount of information that is enlightening coming forward. It is also information that is pulling many away from traditional beliefs. While others are blinded and are being left behind.

I find it all very interesting and by no means do I think that the Gods are being quiet right now!

i believe there is a higher power that created everything or set into motion the forces that lead to or creation. ya thats right i believe in both creation and evolution. i believe that about all religions get there roots from the same source and have been twisted so that they appear diffrent. i allso believe that the other religions are rooted in Philosophy like say Buddhism. I also believe there is a mirror faith that opposes this one i.e. Satanism and the worship of other “evil” gods. (Loki, Kali, Hel, ecs) I believe that all these gods are the same power or angels/demons. Most religion speaks of a all powerful god and them those under him there names are not important if you combined all of them you get a one god and a group of lesser in perpetual battle with a evil power and his subordinates be they evil gods or the devil and demons it is the same to me. This is my belief and if I am wrong I will suffer for it I’m ready for it.

reply to post by redwolf.of.odin

i believe there is a higher power that created everything or set into motion the forces that lead to or creation. ya thats right i believe in both creation and evolution.

Yes! My man we agree! Why couldn't the Creator or Creator's do both?

Often the true answers lie in-between. Atheists want only evolution and creationists want only creation and both fight each other tooth and nail, in an effort to discount each other. While the actual TRUTH lies somewhere in- between!

How about this concept: Satan, and Jah, and Jesus, and yada yada, are all on the same team? Again the truth lying somewhere in-between. Each with their own specific roles to; refine, and define - humans!

Originally posted by Kailassa
...Both were written to gain power by forming a group to donate money and help the authorities behind them take over the world.

The only people that claim this are those IGNORANT of their own history.

Exactly how does it help "the authorities" to have your "secret group" to which people "donate money" be slaughtered by the tens of thousands?

How does it help your "cause" when the first Christians were, basically, tortured to death to refute Christ, and were given assurances that, should they recant, they would be spared?

THAT "secret society" must have been made up of the stupidest people this planet has EVER produced.

"Hey, I know! We'll create this mythical figure, and then we'll have people willing to be tortured to death for this lie, and then we'll use that to lay claim to power, and have people donate to us!"

I firmly believe that people have been getting more stupid with each passing generation. The movie "Idiocracy" is an unwitting prophetic piece, if you ask me.

You SERIOUSLY expound that people were willing to be TORTURED TO DEATH for something they KNEW to be a lie? Do you not realize how incredibly stupid that theory is?

Do not be confused by opportunists who will use EVERYTHING to gain power and money (whether true or a lie), with the truth.



[edit on 13-1-2009 by sir_chancealot]

reply to post by sir_chancealot


you are inevitably right but speaking of the book its self the book was writen to help control the isrialites after moses died. then the romans after constantine died put together the new testament to control the christians witch had just become the state religion. because of the deathbed conversion of the emporer. the books them selves were then translated by king jame to help control the people who at that time could not read the latan it was writen in. so yes it was edited and rewriten several time thing taken away and things changed for the sole perpose of control.
before you get mad about what people say about your books look at the history not what the preacher told you about the early church actual history.

Originally posted by marg6043
I don't see the bible as duping anybody, but I blame religious organizations from the misleading of faiths and believes.

If people were all synchronized with God, the bible and their faith, we would not have the need of all the differences denominations of churches around.

It is after all one god and one bible.

Either religion is very difficult to interpret or is many out there that can see how much profits religion can bring.

.. actually there are many.. and everyone is claiming this is the right one..

reply to post by scorand

.. actually there are many.. and everyone is claiming this is the right one..

Yes, you got that right! And some are even becoming more militant in their beliefs and want to control America through its youth.

I was about to start a thread about what I feel is the conspiracy behind Christianity but no need as this thread is right on. I have yet only read the OP.

As a religion, Christianity is flawed and IMO highly suspect of conspiracy. In fact I think it could be as you say in the first post a means to control.

I was not raised Christian or under any religion but was raised by a man who lives a better life than many, Scratch that, most of the "leaders" I got to know very well as I worked my way up the ranks.

I had several experiences before I was introduced to Christianity that convinced me that there was no doubt a spiritual side of life. When I was introduced to Christianity I was not satisfied with the sinners prayer and asked God to show me that he was indeed God and in my heart I was not going to believe the hype unless He moved me more than what other spiritual encounters had done before. He won, and you can not convince me that God is not real and that Jesus is not His son.

My life since has been full of what many call miracles but what I call a natural result of the relationship that I attempt to establish. I preached on many occasions, led praise and worship often and my wife and I were seriously involved and that is when I realized I had been duped.

Many of the "leaders" were very nasty people, mean spirited, lying, cheating, adulterous, you name it. But did that stop them from being the spiritual leaders, the pastors, the praise and worship team, the ones who condemned every one else for the things that very few knew they them selves were doing behind closed doors? Did that stop them from counseling others through their convictions?

That is when I started to pay attention to all those scriptures that we are so quickly taught to ignore or taught that we are looking at them from the wrong angle or that we had no right to judge. Thats one of my biggest prob's W/ Christians is they can change the rules any time and find a scripture to back it up.

Well look out, I know the word very well and I can tell you with 100% conviction in my heart and soul that a great # of sunday Christians are duped. I am tempted to say that most if not all that go to church because they feel like they have to in order to remain "saved" or "right with God" are duped.

The bible IMO is a great resource for searching, for guidance and for spiritual answers, but I find it too contradictory to be the final answer which I believe is only found through personal seeking.

Here is one of my problems. If we as Christians are to be as the bible says then we are all full of crap and have no spiritual life in us. How many among you heal the sick with your shadow, when was the last time some one died in church when lying to the preacher? We dont see those miracles, but what I do see is a money hungry church asking for 10% according to the OT telling you what you can and can not do or else, all the while the vileness and waste of the hierarchy is utterly disgusting.

I had several occasions to see the store rooms of some very large churches and you would not believe the amount of $ some of these places throw away for the next up to date gadget or gimmick to reach the lost. Ya, your 10%. I better stop Im getting upset.

Ive had much more peace since leaving the "church" and keeping my beliefs to myself and letting my life be what it is. An experience that God wants us to enjoy, to Love and help as well as to hurt, to cry and hate.

I dont know why but in my experience, Christian churches are a place to instill controlled thought and emotion for the purposes and goals of a man or men.

Originally posted by MatrixProphet

I actually like the Bible very much but I have come to believe that the Bible is meant to be very confusing but that if a person chooses, can read between the lines and gain new insight. If we don't take the book at face value and as fanatical as the religious do - I think it holds some fascinating ideas or messages.

Using your Logic above I would like to carry your thought to it's illogical conclusion with this example:

I actually like the automobile very much, but I have come to believe that the Road is meant to be very confusing, but that if a person chooses, he or she can drive between the lines and gain new insight. If we don't take the road at face value and as fanatical as the educated drivers do - I think the automobile and the road holds some fascinating driving experiences.

You don't give your car keys to your kids until they are educated, trained, and proved to be competent behind the wheel and on the road, so why the Hell would you suggest that someone just pick up a Bible on their own and read between the lines?

Christianity has always been about education, salvation, spiritual rebirth, forgiveness, Love of God, overcoming the sin nature, encouraging creativity, individuality, freedom, personal accountability, spiritual growth, etc.

Before anyone starts throwing up ancient history it is important to understand that the printing press was not invented until 1440 and the Christian Protestant Reformation did not begin until 1517. Also, a Bibles cost more than a years wages up until a few hundred years ago.
Therefore, Scholarship concerning the Bible was almost non existent prior to 1440.
You can't blame people for being ignorant when they had no way of knowing what the Bible said.
But today, if people are ignorant of the Bible it is because they wilfully ignore the work and experiences of many Good Scholars.
In other words, today people are wilfully ignorant, and have no excuse for putting down the Bible or complaining that it is too confusing to understand.

Becoming wise in their OWN eyes, they became FOOLS, and exchanged the TRUTH for a LIE.

Originally posted by sir_chancealot

Originally posted by Kailassa
...Both were written to gain power by forming a group to donate money and help the authorities behind them take over the world.

The only people that claim this are those IGNORANT of their own history.

Exactly how does it help "the authorities" to have your "secret group" to which people "donate money" be slaughtered by the tens of thousands?

How does it help your "cause" when the first Christians were, basically, tortured to death to refute Christ, and were given assurances that, should they recant, they would be spared?

THAT "secret society" must have been made up of the stupidest people this planet has EVER produced.

"Hey, I know! We'll create this mythical figure, and then we'll have people willing to be tortured to death for this lie, and then we'll use that to lay claim to power, and have people donate to us!"

I firmly believe that people have been getting more stupid with each passing generation. The movie "Idiocracy" is an unwitting prophetic piece, if you ask me.

You SERIOUSLY expound that people were willing to be TORTURED TO DEATH for something they KNEW to be a lie? Do you not realize how incredibly stupid that theory is?

Do not be confused by opportunists who will use EVERYTHING to gain power and money (whether true or a lie), with the truth.



[edit on 13-1-2009 by sir_chancealot]

Star for you on your post. The Truth stings these heathens even with the powerful anaesthetic of their pumped up egos which dulls the pain caused of their own stupidity.

I'm adding you as a friend.

[edit on 15-1-2009 by John Matrix]

Originally posted by redwolf.of.odin
First of all I do not agree with all the revisions and rewriting of the bible witch changes the true meaning of what is said.

Actually, no revisions have ever altered the Gospel message of Salvation.
I think you are expecting too much from fallible people who translate, Hebrew, Greek, Latin, Aramaic into English. Also, as new texts are discovered, ancient stone tablets, ancient cities, ancient artifacts, etc., modern translators gain a better understanding of the original language.
It wasn't until a few decades ago that Scholars discovered that the NT was written in Koine Greek(common) rather than the Higher Greek. This led to some new insights and a greater understanding of Scripture, but did not take anything from it, it just added to it, and to our understanding.

I think it's better to consult experts to avoid confusion.

Originally posted by MatrixProphet
reply to post by redwolf.of.odin

 

I think Christian have been duped in many ways. First of all I do not agree with all the revisions and rewriting of the bible witch changes the true meaning of what is said.

Yes, the Bible has been written and revised many times and all based on copies. That in itself is interesting. So it brings up the question: what DOES God want us to believe?

What? Why do you comment like this. You are not an expert. Consult the expert Scholars before you spout such assumptions. You have no clue what is involved in the process of revision or New translations. Your statement above is proof. You should stick with the occupation you have and stop leading people down the path of confusion and Hell.

reply to post by budro

I was about to start a thread about what I feel is the conspiracy behind Christianity but no need as this thread is right on. I have yet only read the OP.

We do indeed agree! I was quite angry for a while. I couldn't believe how we were puppet-ed! It made me hostile.

I have been out of Christianity for over 12 years and I have not missed it! I have had so many epiphanies since I left, some of them quite emotional. But more and more answers came to me once I took the step and left religion behind!

I am a searcher. So I asked questions to God until I received answers that I could handle. He never gave me anything until I was ready.

I also had to let go of all of my former beliefs and start out from scratch. I, like you, was a walking Bible! I KNEW my Bible which is why I won't quote a lot of scriptures now, with anyone. I am through with that.

The Bible (if you look to my other threads) is a valuable tool but one that needs to be understood from an entirely different angle. I believe this firmly.

If you ever care to U2U. I'm here and we can discuss anything.




To: John Matrix - I have you on ignore (so am unable to read your posts) as I feel we have nothing to discuss. Thank you for your attention to my threads, anyway!

Originally posted by MatrixProphet
reply to post by justamomma

 

While I think you are wise for the path you took, some will understand the words. It was not meant to be understood by all. It was a call to a certain people that had been scattered in the world.

Yes, I totally agree. And now is the time that these ones are being called forward to teach a new reality and a far better one!

It is easy to see that the two of you are working together to sow confusion with your willy nilly philosophy of Lies that you tout as Truth.

You are both leading people straight to Hell and you bring a curse to yourselves in doing this. You are FALSE teachers, High minded and puffed up, on here looking to feed your egos with pleasantries offered to you by people just as ignorant as you are of the teachings of God.

[edit on 15-1-2009 by John Matrix]