Brave WV resident to hold 9/11 truth meeting

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
Kleverone... you should learn facts before you present them as such. There is not one report stating that there was steel melting in any of the towers OR in the rubble....

Now I realize this has long been addressed, but I was just going to say FEMA said they found molten steel at the WTC in their report. Griff made a whole thread about it (which shouldn't be TOO hard to find).

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
WTC 7 was hit by WTC 1 when it collapsed. FDNY members report that there was a 20 story hole ripped out of it by WTC 1.

A NYPD officer named Craig Bartmer also testified to standing right below WTC7 when it started "collapsing" and he said the bottom floors ripped outwards as if bombs were going off sequentially. So I guess it depends on which witnesses you pick and choose, right? Btw "FDNY members" is vague. It definitely was NOT the whole force saying what you say, face it. The LC guys have even interviewed one of them.

He also said he saw all of the damage on the South face and that it was nothing that should bring a building down. Coincidentally, we have absolutely nothing BUT hearsay to back up the claim of major damage, because the only images show superficial damage to the SW corner (approximately 20 stories deep but I can show you pictures of this and we won't have any disagreements that it would not cause a collapse) and a gouge about 2 windows wide near the bottom floors on the South face that extends downward to some extent but that should have also been superficial. All the surrounding buildings were hit by debris and others also caught on fire, but only WTC7 accelerated at free-fall entirely into a mound within its own footprint. Symmetrically.

[edit on 11-3-2008 by bsbray11]

Originally posted by bsbray11

Now I realize this has long been addressed, but I was just going to say FEMA said they found molten steel at the WTC in their report. Griff made a whole thread about it (which shouldn't be TOO hard to find).

This is a misrepresentation of what the FEMA report says.

As I discussed with Griff previously, melted steel wasn't found in their sample. They found melted sulfur/steel eutectic.

There IS a difference. The beams WERE steel. Then they underwent a chemical change, becoming a sufur/steel eutectic in the pile, and then melted.

Please, no more misrepresentations.

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
Kleverone... you should learn facts before you present them as such. There is not one report stating that there was steel melting in any of the towers OR in the rubble....

thanks,

CO

CO,

Maybe it is you that needs to get their facts straight?

Heating of the steel into a hot corrosive environment approaching 1,000 °C (1,800 °F) results in the formation of a eutectic mixture of iron, oxygen, and sulfur that liquefied the steel.

It is much more difficult to tell if melting has occurred in the grain boundary regions in this steel as was observed in the A36 steel from WTC 7.

wtc.nist.gov...

What's that again about "not one report stating that there was steel melting" again?

Originally posted by Taxi-Driver
It is sad people don't have the skill to see through biased, erronious sources.

I just have to laugh at this statement. "Pot, you're black also" said the kettle.

Does anyone remember the subject of this thread, it appears to me most of you have forgotten. I dislike handing out penalties, and would rather applaud. Thats not going to happen unless this thread gets back on track now.
Consider this the first and last warning!

Brave WV resident to hold 9/11 truth meeting

how about those brave residents? awesome.



it's seems like a pattern is starting.

there's the town in vermont that put an official vote for arresting the president and vice president if they set foot in their town, students heckling rove and try to make a citizen's arrest.....

perhaps critical mass is being reached, and there will be a (hopefully bloodless) american revolution.

[edit on 11-3-2008 by billybob]

Originally posted by Taxi-Driver
Ya know, the same old subversive stuff, like MKULTRA, Paperclip, Lizard men from the planet Nibiru, Terrorstorm, Zeitgeist, and of course the "Gone with the Wind" of modern day science-- Loose Change. Pfffbt.

You people never cease to amaze me.

Are you postulating that MKULTRA and Paperclip never happened?

Project MK-ULTRA was first brought to wide public attention in 1975 by the U.S. Congress, in the form of the Church Committee, and by a presidential commission known as the Rockefeller Commission. Investigative efforts were hampered by the fact that CIA Director Richard Helms ordered all MKULTRA files destroyed in 1973.

en.wikipedia.org...

So, it is not us CTers who brought MK-ULTRA to light...it was CONGRESS!!!!!

Put a fork in the Troof, Ultima.

So, you are against the truth huh? Figures.

but simply because it is backed up with precident, evidence, and facts.

Please quote these past precedents, evidence (like you've seen all the evidence :@@ and facts.

reply to post by Sauron


I can see why this person can be considered brave in this world today. We have news casters calling for "truthers" to be placed in secret prisons. We have Geraldo saying it was a "truther" who bombed the place in NYC. It is a brave new world out there.

i just learned a great word for that 'attack', griff.

re-association.

here's a thread that asks the question this thread answers.

do conspiracy theorists exist in real life?

Originally posted by Taxi-Driver
As you can see by the reaction you recieve on other forums such as EBFW... Have they ran you out on a rail yet? Banned from yet another site?

You mean banned due to the MOD being biased.

Remeber the biggest evidence against the official story is the lack of evidence supporting it.

Originally posted by GhostR1der
[How did it get rigged to be demolished so quickly... Demo setups take an awful long time for most things, let alone a building of that size.

Well actaully Demos do not take that long. Specailly in a building constructed like building 7 and it already had damage so it would not have taken much to bring it down.

Plus we have the statement from Chief hayden that they were worried about fires spreading to other buildings.


[edit on 11-3-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by Damocles
if it was as simple as cutting a few key beams...why is it so far outside possibility/probability to believe that a Xton piece of debris from wtc1 didnt happen to damage those same beams? i mean if its that simple it sure could have happened in the chaos of the destruction of wtc1 couldnt it?

so, which particular demo team was involved? it should be documented somewhere right? because again, no demo teams going to implode a building on a firecheifs say so, IC or not, without documenting it.

1. According to the FEMA report, firmen on the scene reported some damage to the South side of the building to 10 floors, 8-18.

2. We knw that Controlled Demolition Inc. was there becasue they were alos a witness to the molten steel in the basements and debrsi field.

As far as documentation you should know that the FBI, NTSB, and FAA are not relaesing a lot of information, even through FOIA requests.

Originally posted by thedman
Fire Departments do not demolish buildings! We do not carry explosives
or demo teams!

I did not say they did. I stated the fire rescue has the equipment and knowledge to cut beams for rescue.

There were demo teams on the scene, like Controlled Demolltion Inc.



[edit on 11-3-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by Whodunnit
Please, no more misrepresentations.

What am I misrepresenting, the steel? Because it wasn't steel anymore, after it bonded to something else that lowered its melting temperature? It's not the words we disagree on, you just refuse to see what really happened to that steel and hide in semantics.

Thermite is also a eutectic reaction. It's still melting. I don't really give a rats ass what caused it, unless there's some *new* information on how drywall supposedly melts steel.

[edit on 11-3-2008 by bsbray11]

Originally posted by bsbray11
What am I misrepresenting, the steel? Because it wasn't steel anymore, after it bonded to something else that lowered its melting temperature? It's not the words we disagree on, you just refuse to see what really happened to that steel and hide in semantics.

Thermite is also a eutectic reaction. It's still melting. I don't really give a rats ass what caused it, unless there's some *new* information on how drywall supposedly melts steel.

Yes, you're misrepresenting your argument when you say that was steel that FEMA references. They don't. They clearly state that it's a eutectic that melted. It's not semantics. A eutectic is an entirely different substance than the previous material. This is fact and there's no way around it, sorry.

Here's what I don't understand about your statement. You seem to admit that you're aware that the steel mixed with sulfur and formed a eutectic when you state " Because it wasn't steel anymore, after it bonded to something else that lowered its melting temperature? This is exactly where we're in agreement on what happened. The eutectic also melted, and not the steel, which when given the above statement, you agree with me here too. So where are we in disagreement?

I don't know where you came up with the idea that a thermite reaction is a eutectic. A eutectic is 2 materials, when mixed, result in a material that has a lower melting point. ThermAte has sulfur added, which helps lower the melting point of steel by forming the exact eutectic seen in the FEMA sample. Maybe this is what you mean? Again, there's a difference, and no, it's not just semantics.

I have no idea what you're referencing when you talk about drywall. I was clear before in another thread that SO2 gas from all the burning rubble would supply the sulfur needed for the sample in FEMA.

But I'm fairly certain that your argument will be that the sulfur, etc is from thermate, right? I don't think a thermate cut will give the result seen in the FEMA sample. This was clearly a slow process, given the appearance of the sample.

But if I'm wrong about that, my apologizes, of course.

Perhaps you care to expound on what happened to the steel that as you claim, I "just refuse to see what really happened."

It has been said that Don Rumsfield has a piece of the WTC and the Pentagon in his house!!!!!! Trophys! I wonder what a warrant could do in that particular situation? He lives in M's V. Anyone know a good verteran cop and a young DA?

I am a former Marine and former member of the recon and intel community. I have never seen brass retire like I have seen in the past 6 years. There are things going on right now that is going to require alot of creative investigating to get the answers we are looking for. I just want one little piece of solid tangible evidence that links me to the Rooster. Just one! If in deed they have a plan, and have been working it since 9/11, they have made a huge mistake. They have forgotten about all of the guys like me who have been in the shadows and have protected this country from real bad guys. We, and there are many, have been trained by the best in the world and have survived the game. We will never lay down, EVER! There are eyes watching the little rats in the field. Every move that they make. There will be a mistake made by someone that will take us right to the nest. It will happen. The faster things move forward the more likely they are to make a mistake. It will happen and when it does the Eagles that are sitting in the tops of the trees looking down on that nasty group of rats will see that loner who strays, and when he does one of those Eagles will follow him right to the big rats nest. Then justice will swiftly be served.

" THE AMERICAN SPIRIT IS AS STUBBORN AS IT IS STRONG AND WILL NEVER DIE." w.w.c.

Those words are strong. The average American on his worst day will be a fierce warrior if his freedom is ever challenged or threatened. Imagine an army of Modern Day Super Heros trained to do nothing but protect the good guys and take out the bad guys. They exist. They have served their country, put their life on the line and lost friends along the way. They served and went home. They are everywhere and they will always be waiting in the shadows, and in the tree tops watching that group of rats.

When the evidence is presented, justice will be served. There are many people working hard to get it and it is up to everyone who may have access or the ability to investigate closer to get it. It is going to take alot of creative investigating to produce what we are looking for so get to work.

Someone somewhere made a mistake and it is just a matter of time until it is found and exposed. It all starts with little articles like this one. A welder who knows his metals. He sees liquid metal, knows jet fuel can't burn that hot, gets curious, does research and here we are.

He's not the first and will not be the last.

In the end the good guys allways win, we may lose a battle here and there but we always win in the end.

JESUS KNEW HIS DESTINY BEFORE IT HAPPENED. HE SUFFERED AND ENDURED THE PAIN THAT NO OTHER MAN COULD TAKE. HE CARRIED THAT CROSS UNTIL HE COULD NO LONGER AND HE STILL WENT WILLINGLY TO THAT HILL AND PAID THE ULTIMATE PRICE. BECAUSE OF HIM WE ARE SAVED AND WE ARE FREE. BECAUSE OF HIM WE WILL LIVE IF WE LOVE HIM.

So do you part, live your life unafraid and be free. We keep searching for the needle in the pile. When we find it we will have our justice. If they ever try to take our freedom away you stand up and fight. And you remember that no matter who you are, what color your skin is and if you love this country and you love THE LORD GOD AND HIS ONLY SON JESUS, you will protect what is a pure gift from GOD and what is rightly yours.

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
Kleverone... you should learn facts before you present them as such. There is not one report stating that there was steel melting in any of the towers OR in the rubble....

thanks,

CO

CO,

Maybe it is you that needs to get their facts straight?

Heating of the steel into a hot corrosive environment approaching 1,000 °C (1,800 °F) results in the formation of a eutectic mixture of iron, oxygen, and sulfur that liquefied the steel.

It is much more difficult to tell if melting has occurred in the grain boundary regions in this steel as was observed in the A36 steel from WTC 7.

wtc.nist.gov...

What's that again about "not one report stating that there was steel melting" again?

reply to post by EYEOFEAGLE


There was actually video footage of molten steel at ground zero. I am looking for it now in my archive. Someone stuck a camera down in a whole and filmed the red hot molten steel. This was during the recovery op. A day or two after the collapse.

Originally posted by Whodunnit
Yes, you're misrepresenting your argument when you say that was steel that FEMA references. They don't. They clearly state that it's a eutectic that melted. It's not semantics. A eutectic is an entirely different substance than the previous material. This is fact and there's no way around it, sorry.

There is no NEED to go around it, because I understand the situation, and you haven't even rebutted anything.

The eutectic also melted, and not the steel, which when given the above statement, you agree with me here too. So where are we in disagreement?

The disagreement is in the significance here. That's what you're misrepresenting. When people say Henry Ford built cars they don't mean he literally, physically built his cars. The production companies he owned did. In the same way I say the steel was melted. Just because the molecules were made to go into an in-between state that has a different chemical name, doesn't mean crap to me insofar as whether or not it was done by design, or whether it just magically happened.

ThermAte has sulfur added, which helps lower the melting point of steel by forming the exact eutectic seen in the FEMA sample. Maybe this is what you mean? Again, there's a difference, and no, it's not just semantics.

I would've thought it was obvious that that's what I meant, so yes, it is semantics to me. The difference between thermite and thermate is one letter and whoever originally came up with the word "thermate" was obviously just jacking around with the word "thermite." The basic function of the two flavors is the exact same.

I was clear before in another thread that SO2 gas from all the burning rubble would supply the sulfur needed for the sample in FEMA.

Assuming there was, what temperature would that reaction between the steel and sulfur have to have to take place?

Originally posted by EYEOFEAGLE
I am a former Marine and former member of the recon and intel community.

AMEN brother. I also work in the intell community.

Originally posted by EYEOFEAGLE
reply to post by EYEOFEAGLE

 

There was actually video footage of molten steel at ground zero. I am looking for it now in my archive. Someone stuck a camera down in a whole and filmed the red hot molten steel. This was during the recovery op. A day or two after the collapse.

Please find it. I'd love to see it and save it. Thanks.

Originally posted by bsbray11

Assuming there was, what temperature would that reaction between the steel and sulfur have to have to take place?

The rest was just...... not worth my time.

It'll react at any temp. Obviously, reactions with steel will take place faster at higher temps, something that was achieved during the weeks of ..... FIRE.

The SO2 is produced by burning materials. Also, H2S is produced by making steam pass over hot iron. Like when they sprayed the piles to keep down the dust, etc.