My Chemtrail evidence

thats what it was like over my town but in daylight.

I have yet to hear a coherent explanation of how a wide, spread out trail occurs alongside a short, disappearing one on the same day within minutes of each other at what appears to be the same altitude...c'mon yall!!!

You pilots and weather experts and skeptics must have a reasonable theory for that, it happens all the time.

Just look.

Skeptics so stragely silent on the subject. Typical.

reply to post by weedwhacker


I'm pretty new to this forum, and learning about this subject.

My question is simple: Why would two aircraft, traveling at approximately the same height leave two different types of contrails? One that dissipates quickly and one that remains in the sky for a protracted length of time? (I have photos on my blog.)

I witnessed both types of trails being made at the same time. From several different aircraft.

I'm geographically close to an airport (IAD) and I see aircraft overfly daily with no contrails, or normally dissipating contrails or even contrails that remain for long time periods. So what is the difference between these events if I can see all three in the sky simultaneously?

Originally posted by Pilot
I have yet to hear a coherent explanation of how a wide, spread out trail occurs alongside a short, disappearing one on the same day within minutes of each other at what appears to be the same altitude...c'mon yall!!!

You pilots and weather experts and skeptics must have a reasonable theory for that, it happens all the time.

Just look.

How about at the same time, approximately the same altitude, only at a different area of the same sky?

reply to post by kelbtalfenek


kelb, thanks for your question. I am also geographically close to IAD, but actually much closer to DCA. I also see airliners leave contrails sometimes, sometimes not. In my 22 years of flying jets I have personally seen MANY jets go by, as we pass each other in flight. Sometimes they form a contrail, sometimes they don't. Sometimes my jet formed a contrail, sometimes it didn't.

Now, you asked about seeing airplanes that you assumed were at the same altitude? Can you really discern a difference of 1000 feet from your vantage point on the ground? Because, that is the current vertical separation standard for airplanes. In the HI-level airspace system (above FL230), there is also a minimum requirement for 5 NM horizontal separation for airplanes at the same altitude. Interesting factoid: Until about 2002-2003 the vertical separation standard above FL290 was 2000 feet. Improvements in onboard equipment sensitivity, especially the static ports and altimeter systems has allowed the reduction to the 1000-foot standard, but only if the airplane is certified as such...most are, today. This was deemed necessary due to the ever-increasing amount of air traffic....

Back to contrails...if the airmass you happen to be flying thru has insufficient water vapor content, a long-lived contrail will not form. Our atmosphere is a dynamic and ever-changing phenomenom. I'd recommend some meteorological studies if you'd like to understand it better.

So those "conditions" just happen to exist in a straight line across the entire sky?

I don't understand why if it is SUCH a simple explanation why all the twisted logic, none of the explanations of the different types of trails occurring at the same time make any sense.

Please.

reply to post by Pilot


Pilot, if you are referring to my answer in response to kelb's then let me make it simple for you.

You, an observer on the ground, cannot adequately judge the exact altitude of an airplane as it passes overhead. From our vantage point on the ground, a difference of a few thousand feet is hardly discernible.

Jets form contrails, when sufficient humidity exists, generally above 30,000 feet. Jets routinely cruise from 31,000 to 39,000 feet. The higher the altitude, the better the fuel efficiency...BUT! Depending on actual gross weight, a jet cannot always reach maximum cruising altitude until enough fuel (which equals weight...6.7 lbs/gal) is burned off.

So, a jet on a long-haul flight will initially level at, say, 31,000 (odd numbers for Eastbound, even numbers for Westbound) and after several hours will request a higher altitude, once fuel is burned and weight is reduced. (Of course, we can sometimes stay at a less fuel-efficient altitude if the tailwinds are favorable, but that's a topic for another discussion...)

reply to post by weedwhacker


That's very interesting weedwacker, but it does not address the issue.

Look, I have a photograph of a jet leaving a trail as it ascends through several layers of atmoshere...ok, then, I also have photographs of jets leaving trails on the same day within minutes of one another, some leave behind the spread out cloud-like trail, another the short, thin disappearing trails. So far the explanation I have heard is it's variable temperature, variable moisture content of the air, variable altitude, etc...ok fine.

If these were the cause of the trails that spread out and linger, why are the trails consistant across the sky in width and concentration and not patchy and inconsistant? You are saying the conditions for a lingering trail exist in a straight, unbroken line across the sky that just so happen to follow a jet. Hm.

You can't use the argument that the atmosphere is full of varying conditions to explain why one trail dissipates and one doesn't, while using the same argument to explain why the trails are consistant, unbroken lines that cross the sky. It doesn't add up my good friend.

Originally posted by Pilot
reply to post by weedwhacker

 

That's very interesting weedwacker, but it does not address the issue.

Look, I have a photograph of a jet leaving a trail as it ascends through several layers of atmoshere...ok, then, I also have photographs of jets leaving trails on the same day within minutes of one another, some leave behind the spread out cloud-like trail, another the short, thin disappearing trails. So far the explanation I have heard is it's variable temperature, variable moisture content of the air, variable altitude, etc...ok fine.

If these were the cause of the trails that spread out and linger, why are the trails consistant across the sky in width and concentration and not patchy and inconsistant? You are saying the conditions for a lingering trail exist in a straight, unbroken line across the sky that just so happen to follow a jet. Hm.

You can't use the argument that the atmosphere is full of varying conditions to explain why one trail dissipates and one doesn't, while using the same argument to explain why the trails are consistant, unbroken lines that cross the sky. It doesn't add up my good friend.

Pilot, not sure how I didn't address the issue...

If you have a photo of a jet '...as it ascends through several layers of atmosphere...' and the resulting trail...and you KNOW that the jet was 'ascending' (actually, we use the term climbing...you're a pilot, based on your screen name, you should know that).

As i pointed out, depending on where you live, and what you observe during the day, you will see many jets pass overhead, and I guarantee they will be at many different altitudes, and the air above you will be constantly changing...or not changing, in the case (rarely) when you see a contrail persist for more than a few hours.

In any event, even IF...and that's a big IF...these were chemicals being sprayed they would not do it at A) 33,000 feet because, it is close to the troposphere, depending on season and latitude, therefore would be wasted if trying to spread on the surface. B) They would not do it in broad daylight so everyone could see!! They would do it at night, at a lower altitude, like a cropduster.

You see, the conspiracy falls apart because: Some assert it is an effort at weather control...therefore must be done in daylight. But those who assert this say it is the Government trying to prevent Global Warming...that would be a GOOD thing, if true.

Others assert chemicals are being sprayed for some nefarious purpose, as in poisoning our own citizens, or whatever. Seriously, think logically for a minute...if chemicals are being sprayed to 'poison' us, then it would be more covert...i.e., at night and at low altitude!!!

Mass hysteria is a tricky phenom....guess the internet can contribute to the concept.....

Originally posted by Pilot
Look, I have a photograph of a jet leaving a trail as it ascends through several layers of atmoshere...

*checks calendar*
Yeah, it's still 2008. Planes don't have the ability to travel through layers of atmosphere yet


As someone stated earlier a bit of understanding about meteorology and the atmospher would help you understand what's being stated more, because I see you're not following.....



onesock

and im sure those trails arnt there from take off until landing so why wait until the plane is over a town or city to dump what ever it is

lol
What you see is occuring about 30,000 feet up. They also occur when temps are about -40F. If you were going to "dump" something, you wouldn't do it that high as that would make 0 sense whatsoever.

Or do you know what chemicals are being used that are heavy enough to fall 30,000 feet and survive those extreme conditions?

reply to post by weedwhacker


Yes I am sure the jet was "climbing" it was obvious. The trail persisted. What more can I tell you? This was the same day the other photos were shot, trails that persisted occurred and trails that did not persist occurred.

I am not getting your explanations because you are not really telling me why I am seeing what I'm seeing, in a specific way, in a general way yes, but I am still left wondering how the atmoshpere at any altitude can effect the trails I have shot
CONSISTANTLY that is the key word here OK?? A line across the sky that is not broken. If you are saying that VARIABLES at this or that altitude is what makes the lines appear, how do you explain the trail that is climbing that remains unbroken?

Am I not being clear?

I spent a lot of time out on the water back in the 70s-90s and never saw any of these "contrails" like I see today. Are they using different jet fuel nowadays?

reply to post by Pilot


Pilot, why was it 'obvious' the jet you saw was climbing? How could you tell? Did you have access to the TCAS info? Sorry, but eyewitness testimony from the ground is not sufficient...even I can't tell with accuracy what altitude an airplane is at, when I look up from the ground.

Really, nonsense will fly around the internet, until stopped by facts.. Please do not contribute to misinformation!

Thanks.

Originally posted by WEOPPOSEDECEPTION
I spent a lot of time out on the water back in the 70s-90s and never saw any of these "contrails" like I see today. Are they using different jet fuel nowadays?

Interesting question, WEOPPOSE....

I'd like to know exactly how much time you spent 'on the water' back in the '70s-90s'....that time frame encompasses a good two decades. Please, enlighten us, tell us you Lat/Long to help us know what ocean you were on, if it was an ocean...maybe it was a lake? All you said is you were on the water, I assumed ocean...perhaps I'm mistaken.

BTW, I actually flew AIRPLANES during the time period you describe. I started with a major airline in June, 1984. Flew there until November 2005. I took a leave of absence, semi-retired at present...doesn't mean I forgot everything I know!!

SO, let's discuss our various qualifications, I'd be happy to bring what I know to the table.....

[adding...the jet fuel is the same, by the way. Jet A is used in civilian jets and turboprops. Jet B is a military mix, has a higher temperature when burned....that's why we have limitations in our Operating Manuals in the event we operate Charters to Military Bases and must be fueled with Jet-B...requires a logbook write-up, and maintenance inspection procedures, and we have to pay close attention to the EGT limits, and the time of operating with the higher 'octane', for want of a better term, fuel....hope this makes some sense....and, Jet fuel is jet fuel...period. There are no 'secret' chemicals in the fuel!!! If there were, they'd get burned up anyway!! But, since there aren't any, it's a moot point!!]

[edit on 20-3-2008 by weedwhacker]

That would be Long Island Sound (between Long Island, N.Y. and Connecticut).

reply to post by weedwhacker


Why don't you just answer my question if you can?? I don't think asking a valid question is adding to any misinformation. If you have no answer, just say so. I won't be troubled by that. Honesty is appreciated.

Originally posted by Pilot
reply to post by weedwhacker

 

Why don't you just answer my question if you can?? I don't think asking a valid question is adding to any misinformation. If you have no answer, just say so. I won't be troubled by that. Honesty is appreciated.

I'd love to answer your question, if you would kindly pose one!

So, you have my honor....I will be honest.

Ask away!!!

reply to post by weedwhacker


The question about the climbing trail?? Why does it persist through layers of altitude??

Just so you know:
I am open minded enough to accept explanations that are contrary to my bias, I am not at all ashamed to be wrong, however, the explanations offered by the pilots and weather geeks defy logic in some cases. Now, before I said if you use the argument that altitude is the reason for trails to be either persistant or not, and all the variables in the atmosphere, how can you also use the same argument to explain straight line uninterrupted across the sky trails if so many variables exist? It can reflect one or the other, do you see?

So back to the queston: A trail appears behind a jet climbing to it's cruising altitude and lingers, is consistant and unbroken. How is that possible?

[edit on 21-3-2008 by Pilot]

here is the picture in question:

files.abovetopsecret.com...