Smokers are people too!

Originally posted by goblue

JFJ123: Wake up and smell the Smog. Air pollution does not make smoking good as I have tried to state nothing is as good as we wish it could be. There is still something we can base good and bad on, are friend logic. I have already said it but how many little cigarrets would it take to fill the cloud of smog over our big cities. Perception rules most of our lives how something like a little cigarrete can scare people so much is beyond me, there is a cloud of smog that would take a trillion cigarrets to make above most of our heads. The fruit and vegetables you eat to stay healthy is LACED with pesticides that can cause cancer and other really scary stuff but you eat it with out thinking twice. How can some person smoking a little cigarrete scare you so much. Think for your self and not what you are told to think and dont be so worried I guarantee you there are more unhealthy things in you daily life if you just sit back and take a look.

Yes I know there is air pollution.
I also don't want to sit next to a car exhaust in a garage for the same reason I don't want to sit next to a group of smokers.

I'm not afraid of cigarettes, I have asthma and cigarette smoke is a trigger for me which has put me in the hospital. How about that for an inconvenience.

We have control over where we choose to smoke-why not just be considerate about it??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????




[edit on 6-3-2008 by jfj123]

Originally posted by adigregorio

The popular socialist plea today is, "for the children," and the anti-smoking propagandists have played this card to the hilt. They tell you, for example, that the incidence of children with asthma is going up because of smoking.

If the increased incidence of children with asthma is going up because of smoking, why is it that when fewer people smoke according to their statistics, then more children develop asthma? Duh?? Their arguments may sound good ("for the children"), but they are total nonsense.

Second hand smoke does not cause Asthma. There are no allergens, protein or protein-carbohydrate complexes, present in tobacco smoke to cause attacks either. But, asthma attacks can be psychosomatic. And, thanks to the anti-smoking group and the media, a child who has been told that tobacco smoke triggers an asthma attack possibly will have an attack if tobacco smoke is visible. (Numerous clinical trials have shown that no attacks occur if children do not know that they are in the presence of tobacco smoke.)

Source

Yeah second hand smoke causes asthma. Can we say NOPE!

Quit with the lies, and do some real research.

Looks to me that you're having a psychosomatic response there. Considering smoke can't cause asthma.

Originally posted by adigregorio

Originally posted by adigregorio

Yeah second hand smoke causes asthma. Can we say NOPE!

Quit with the lies, and do some real research.

Looks to me that you're having a psychosomatic response there. Considering smoke can't cause asthma.

Well let me repeat myself AGAIN. Smoking can initiate an asthmatic episode.

Smoke from cigars, cigarettes, and pipes harms your body in many ways, but it is especially harmful to the lungs of a person with asthma. Tobacco smoke is a powerful trigger of asthma symptoms.

When a person inhales tobacco smoke, irritating substances settle in the moist lining of the airways. These substances can cause an attack in a person who has asthma.

In addition, tobacco smoke damages tiny hair-like structures in the airways called cilia. Normally, cilia sweep dust and mucus out of the airways. Tobacco smoke damages cilia so they are unable to work, allowing dust and mucus to accumulate in the airways.

Smoke also causes the lungs to make more mucus than normal. As a result, even more mucus can build up in the airways, triggering an attack.

Second-hand smoke is the combination of smoke from a burning cigar or cigarette and smoke exhaled by a smoker.

Inhaling second-hand smoke, also called "passive smoke" or "environmental tobacco smoke," may be even more harmful than actually smoking. That's because the smoke that burns off the end of a cigar or cigarette contains more harmful substances (tar, carbon monoxide, nicotine, and others) than the smoke inhaled by the smoker.

Second-hand smoke is especially harmful to people who already have asthma. When a person with asthma is exposed to second-hand smoke, he or she is more likely to experience the wheezing, coughing and shortness of breath associated with asthma.

Oh then there's this. A single example.

Recently, a group of Finnish researchers conducted a population-based, case-control study to determine the effects of current and past smoking on the incidence of asthma in an adult population. They concluded that smoking is a significant cause of asthma in adulthood.1

“Previously, it has been controversial whether smoking causes asthma or only causes COPD,” said Maritta S. Jaakkola, MD, DSc, Senior Clinical Lecturer in Respiratory and Occupational Medicine at the University of Birmingham in the United Kingdom. “We were able to show that smoking causes asthma. This means that reducing smoking can prevent a considerable portion of adult-onset asthma cases.”

How does smoking cause asthma? “Tobacco smoke contains several irritants that have been shown to cause chronic inflammation in the airways and in the alveoli. Such chronic inflammation can lead to asthma,” Dr. Jaakkola explained. “In addition, smoking has been shown to modulate the immune system and to impair normal repair systems leading, potentially, to asthma.” She added that in both animals and humans, hypersensitivity to allergens is enhanced in the presence of tobacco smoke.

[edit on 6-3-2008 by jfj123]

reply to post by jfj123


He misunderstood... Yes, smoke can trigger an asthma attack just won't cause somebody to develope asthma, and just for the record... I agree with you about not smoking around people that don't enjoy cigarette smoke! That is just a kind thing to do... All I am saying and I think it got lost a while ago is that....

We smoke outside now...

In some cases it is extreme weather...

Please vote for us so that we get a comfy place to smoke away from all of you who don't like smoke!

Not that much to ask! A little smoking fort if you will, with a heater would be nice! Then you will never have to witness us or breathe in our smoke again!

Yes I know there is air pollution.
I also don't want to sit next to a car exhaust in a garage for the same reason I don't want to sit next to a group of smokers.

I'm not afraid of cigarettes, I have asthma and cigarette smoke is a trigger for me which has put me in the hospital. How about that for an inconvenience.

We have control over where we choose to smoke-why not just be considerate about it??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


That is unfotunate you have asma to that degree. You dont have to sit next to a group of smokers you have that choice. You how ever have no choice to when it comes to a cars exhaust neither do I. I dont have any control at all of where I smoke I am told where I legally can and cant smoke. I live in Denver, Colorado. Two years ago there was a vote here to decide the smoking thing. The people voted to leave smoking alone. One year later the states senators and other powers that be decided they know better than the people and banned smoking in the whole state. There was two places alowed to keep smoking Casinos, air ports. They cant take the poison out of my food but they can tell me where to smoke intersting isnt it.

Originally posted by sparda4355
reply to post by jfj123

 

He misunderstood... Yes, smoke can trigger an asthma attack just won't cause somebody to develope asthma, and just for the record... I agree with you about not smoking around people that don't enjoy cigarette smoke! That is just a kind thing to do...

Thank you very much

All I am saying and I think it got lost a while ago is that....

We smoke outside now...

In some cases it is extreme weather...

That does suck.

Please vote for us so that we get a comfy place to smoke away from all of you who don't like smoke!

One of my previous jobs had a smoking and non-smoking break area. The smoking break area had two ceiling vents installed to pull the smoke right outside and a vent system to push all air up and out instead of through doors. I had no problem with that at all. You have every right to smoke if you want to.

The problem is, unless the boss smokes, you probably won't get much consideration.

[edit on 6-3-2008 by jfj123]

I am a smoker, not really proud of , I hate smoking and the smell of it, but do not have the will power to give up.

Now all you none smokers who drive a car, who say they do not want to breath my smoke into their lungs, guess what I do not want too breath your car exaust fumes into my lungs, but what choice do I have, dont moan at me for kicking smelly smoke out when you do it with your car, and if you havent got a car and still moan, then maybe you have a barbeque, do not know how true it is but when you are sizzling your burgers apparently the smoke coming from a barbie has the same toxins as a cigarette, if this is true then it is tenfold with the amount of smoke coming from a barbie, and I have to put up with my neighbours plethora of smoke coming into my garden in the summer, whilst trying to relax in the bit of sun we have here in England.

Whenever I go into the town centre, I come back smelling of exaust fumes, from the cars and buses, this actually overpowers the smell of cigarette smoke I may have on my clothes, so I take a bath when I get back, I am not kidding the exaust fumes even give me a headache, and I bet some of the car owners are ones that moan about smokers.

I would just like to mention before I finish my rant, about passive smoking, how come you get little old ladies, or men who have smoked all their lives and have pet budgies, pet dogs, pet cats, etc, they have had these pets living with them for years and years and yet they do not keel over dying from passive smoking, thats got to their little tiny lungs, surly a budgies lungs couldnt take more than a year of passive smoking, if it is as bad as what they have us believe. so how come I never hear of animals dying through passive smoking?.

I do not want an argument with anyone, these are just my views and hope I am not alone in the way of thinking them.
Yes I know at the start I said I hate smoking and the smell of it, but I do not expect people coming up to me to tell me I smell, I do not go up to everycar owner and say you smell of exaust fumes, thats is their right to smell like that, and it is my right to smell how I want.
I think instead of a none smoker moaning about smokers, they should put their energy into moaning about rapist, killers, peodophiles, etc, or do they think smoking is a more disgusting habit than the aformentioned.

hi everybody, I would really just like to add to the conversation that I have not driven a car or truck for over 17 years. I use mostly solar and self generated power sources, that being said I think that the carbon footprint that I put out with my organic all natural cigarettes is very minimal compared to someone who has driven, even the most economical least polluting car out there and the actual particulate matter that comes from smoking is minimal, so, when everyone else stops driving, starts using solar or some other kind of energy source that does not BURN SOMETHING to power their ____ing ipods and microwaves, then,and maybe only then should you worry about who is still smoking, UNTIL THEN LEAVE THOSE OF US WHO ENJOY SMOKING ALONE!!!!!! I ride a bicycle every where I go, well all most if I have to go longer than 30 miles I usually take mass transit, and I tell you, I could never get as much pollutants in my lungs as when I ride along the coast road following a S.U.V. even if I smoke for 100 years. So drive your truck off a cliff and maybe then I will stop puffing on a butt. Don't you think there are other things that you should worry about than what I DO TO MY SELF

Originally posted by adigregorio

Originally posted by Toy_soldier
No cancer causing products are gonna enter that persons system. With smoking, it is completely different. If I lit up next to that person then they'd be breathing in my filthy toxic smoke and UNFAIRLY having their health jeopardised.

Smoking does NOT CAUSE LUNG CANCER

Originally posted by Toy_soldier
(though I still maintain that they're just plain stupid for smoking in the first place)

The reason I call smokers "stupid" is because, well, how else would you describe someone who purposely breaths in toxic fumes that destroys their insides as well as makes their outsides disgusting and yellow?

Yet you are not "stupid" for eating fast food? You know it is damaging yet you say it is okay to do because it doesn't hurt others.

Smoking doesn't cause lung cancer? Tell me you're joking. Tell me you do not actually believe that. That is one of the most ignorant things I have heard on ATS, really. I bet you tell yourself that every time you light up.

But, let's just *pretend* (emphasis on pretend) for a moment that it doesn't really cause lung cancer, and all the government warnings are just lies and deciet designed to get you to stop smoking so they ... can no longer reap the benefits of all the tax on cigerettes? Who knows. Anyway. What about all the other cancers caused by smoking? Like tongue cancer? (pretty much just cancer in general) Does smoking cause that or is that just a lie too? Increased risk of stroke? Cataracts, that can lead to blindness? Emphysema? Impotence?

All lies?

As for me being stupid for eating fast food. Yes, I would agree. For people who eat that stuff more often than they should. But I was using that as an example. While I do occassionally eat McDonalds or pizza or something, so I admit I'm not completely guilt-free when it comes to unhealthy foods. But as I write this I'm sucking down on a health drink, after eating a particularly healthy breakfast and after work today I'm heading straight for the gym. (walking to each and every place)

I know this adds zero weight to my argument, I just wanted to say that I am not one of those people who completely indulge themselves in fat-coated foods and do not look after themselves, and then goes after smokers.

Also, just a quick question. Does it bother any of you that you can spot a smoker when they walk into the room simply by their odor, their discoloured teeth and their yellow finger nails? Before they even utter a word (and that disgusting smokers breath attacks you) you can tell that they're a smoker.

Toy_ soldier:


The government doesnt like things they cant controll. I am sure they have done or allowed things that where worse for your lungs than other people smoking could. Tounge cancer give us a better example please, pizza made from vegatables from our pesticide infested crops can give you tounge cancer right. It is easy if some one gets cancer to say yep he was around smoke or a smoker thats how he got it. There is many different reasons one could get cancer. Do you remember the last time you got sick, could you tell me what you got sick from, the location what you touched or ate that got you sick didnt think so so how could you do that with cancer.

I feel the same way about people who walk in a room and stink, have yellow finger nails, dont have to utter a breath and their stench is noticeable. I dont call them smokers where I am from they are called hippies.

Originally posted by goblue
Toy_ soldier:


The government doesnt like things they cant controll. I am sure they have done or allowed things that where worse for your lungs than other people smoking could. Tounge cancer give us a better example please, pizza made from vegatables from our pesticide infested crops can give you tounge cancer right. It is easy if some one gets cancer to say yep he was around smoke or a smoker thats how he got it. There is many different reasons one could get cancer. Do you remember the last time you got sick, could you tell me what you got sick from, the location what you touched or ate that got you sick didnt think so so how could you do that with cancer.

I feel the same way about people who walk in a room and stink, have yellow finger nails, dont have to utter a breath and their stench is noticeable. I dont call them smokers where I am from they are called hippies.

I honestly never thought hippies would somehow come up in this conversation. You know what cartman always says about hippies?

I hate hippies !!!

i defientely agree with the open post

Originally posted by sparda4355
Smokers rights…

If you don’t live in an area with a smoking ban… this probably isn’t the thread for you!

I personally think the way they are treating smokers in several areas, is simply unconstitutional! Smokers are not a protected class, but in today’s society, we should be!

Just for example… At the company I work for, they literally make us walk approximately 2-300 feet (maybe more?), through a gate, some days through 2 feet of piled up snow, with no walls for protection in the windy city sometimes below 20 degrees wind-chill…

Employers and companies have to accommodate for handicap, breast feeding, even fat people (I’m sorry obese people) nowadays… They should have to accommodate for smokers too…

Being forced outside in some cases extreme weather conditions we should have a legally classified comfortable place to smoke! It should include weather and element protection, seating, and proper disposal containers… This should be mandated and enforced!


[edit on 4-3-2008 by sparda4355]

i live in australia and now they have banned smoking in bars. i know cigarettes dont smell nice but have you ever smelt half the people in those places? and i always thought drinking wasnt good for you either

Oh please, give me a break... smokers rights lol. Nobody is forcing you to smoke, so why should non smokers be forced to inhale your smoke?

why should I be forced to inhale the exhaust on your car if I only ride a bike?

and why should I be forced to buy purified water, if I've never polluted any water source?

how about banning people that don't cover their mouth when they cough, or fining people for not washing their hands frequently?

All of these have serious health implications, and are avoidable.

because it's a fact of life. and until you cure everything else in the world that's wrong, you are kidding yourself if you think telling people when, where and what to smoke is going to make even the slightest difference in your life, compared to just being mindful and avoiding places and situations you find offensive.

[edit on 6-3-2008 by scientist]

reply to post by scientist


i think bgati just got burnt

just to point out, im not targeting anyone in particular here, but rather the general mindset of "why should I be inconvenienced?"

We are taught from a young age, life isn't fair. Has something changed recently? (rhetorical/sarcastic, let me have a free pass).

Originally posted by bgaty
Oh please, give me a break... smokers rights lol. Nobody is forcing you to smoke, so why should non smokers be forced to inhale your smoke?

Holy christ....you're like the umpteenth person to toss out that lame argument.

Scientist said it, but i'ma say it again...how about people who don't cover their mouths when they cough or sneeze? or people with bad breath?, or people who don't bathe regularly? Why should i have to be exposed to that?

I don't.....i choose the path not only of least resistance, but of common sense, logic, and personal responsibility, and i remove myself from situations i find undesirable.

That's what's wrong with this country...noone understands the concept of "personal responsibility", because most of us have been collectively dumbed down, and indoctrinated with the ignorant, arrogant mindset of "it's everyone's fault but mine", and "i want what i want, and frak everyone else"....it makes me sick.

You don't like what's on the TV?, change the bloody channel.....don't want to be around smokers?, go elsewhere...seriously....if more people actually used that rubbish between their ears, instead of whining about everything under the goddamn sun, i think we'd all be much happier as a people, and as a nation...

EDIT: I apologize if this post is a bit more heated in tone than my others...this culture of willful mindlessness is really getting on what's left of my nerves...

[edit on 7-3-2008 by Daedalus]

[edit on 7-3-2008 by Daedalus]

Originally posted by Toy_soldier
Smoking doesn't cause lung cancer? Tell me you're joking. Tell me you do not actually believe that. That is one of the most ignorant things I have heard on ATS, really. I bet you tell yourself that every time you light up.

No....it doesn't cause cancer....insofar as it's not THE cause....it is a causative factor, however.....but then again, you also have to have a genetic predisposition to cancer...and even then, there's still no guarantees you'll get it. It's not so cut and dry as "if you smoke, you will get cancer."

But, let's just *pretend* (emphasis on pretend) for a moment that it doesn't really cause lung cancer, and all the government warnings are just lies and deciet designed to get you to stop smoking so they ... can no longer reap the benefits of all the tax on cigerettes? Who knows. Anyway. What about all the other cancers caused by smoking? Like tongue cancer? (pretty much just cancer in general) Does smoking cause that or is that just a lie too? Increased risk of stroke? Cataracts, that can lead to blindness? Emphysema? Impotence?

Again, causative factor....along with others, including genetic predisposition...

Also, just a quick question. Does it bother any of you that you can spot a smoker when they walk into the room simply by their odor, their discoloured teeth and their yellow finger nails? Before they even utter a word (and that disgusting smokers breath attacks you) you can tell that they're a smoker.

Didn't your mother ever teach you stereotyping is rude, AND ignorant?

I'll admit....i smoke cigarettes. while my teeth aren't pearly white, they're not yellow or brown, or anything....i don't have yellow fingers or fingernails, or halitosis...and i don't smell bad. If you didn't see me smoking, you'd never be able to guess i smoke...

Not all of us are slobs...

[edit on 7-3-2008 by Daedalus]

I almost find it laughable, accomodate you? I don't see anyone accomodating fat people, where do you see this?

Airlines force fat people to pay for two seats in many cases, I hardly call that accomodation.


You know, if all the addictive additives were removed from tobacco, many of the pro-smoking group would indeed themselves quit. Does this dawn anything on you? Ever think that you are not actually deciding to smoke out of your own free will? A regular smoker's boy is going into withdrawl 30 minutes after each cigarette whether anyone wants to admit it or not.

Do anyone here believe that they made the first choice to accept their body to go into withdrawl? The product has been conditioned to have that affect on your body, noone said "I want myself to be unable to live without a cigarette from here on out!! I want to be under the control of a product for the rest of my life AND waste tens of thousands of dollars in the process!!"

You poor souls are being liberated. Eventually most of yall will be. Fight the good fight yall