'Enjoy life while you can'

The issue of Rolling Stone is November 1, 2007 (Bruce Springsteen on cover)

The article is decent... quite long.

The future according to this dork?

-Go nuclear
-Drink the oceans
-Grow synthetic food (fungus!)
-Prepare for chaos
-Engineer the climate (his ocean pipe theory)

Oh Dulcimer, you cut me off at the legs! Now I don't know what to think.
He's had some fairly important thereoes and inventions credited to his name, so he can't be that bad. More study is needed, I think.

[edit on 2/3/2008 by watch_the_rocks]

His work on stuff like the electron capture detector is great.... but I do not like his current stance on all the environment issues.

He thinks big thats for sure.

No one wants to read about his electron capture thing a ma jig

He gets press using his apocalyptic, we are all gonna die gimmic, and people eat this up. Sure dig a hole and live in cause you want the world to turn into "hell comes to frogtown" and you wanna be Roddy Piper.



[edit on 2-3-2008 by wrathchild]

I don't trust the whole global warming thing...its just too easy to state the inevitable that we are destroying our planet- but to say that we're all doomed if we don't act now is ridiculous- we've been damaging our ecosystems for years. Unless a nuke goes off sometime soon- I don't see how we'll see a catastrophe of epic proportions taking place. All this talk of "survival" is just to scare people. Scare tactics is constantly being used to cause fear and panic among the masses. Unless one day you walk outside and can no longer breath air or we run out of drinkable water, then I'll believe it.

No doubt we're dooming ourselves, but it's more of dooming the future of mankind as opposed to us now. Don't believe everything your being told about anything to do with global warming. Its a theory and science hasn't completely backed it up yet- yet government scientists have...smells fishy to me.

The only thing we really have to fear is each other and ourselves. Everything else will take care of us.

Adaptability is evolution.

Regardless of his actual predictions and dates (assumingly based on scientific data, which is not presented in the article) .... the man has a real, valid point.

We need to be more prepared in our lives in general. I'm not saying that the state of Florida will be part of the Atlantic Ocean 20 years from now, but who knows what mother nature, a country's government, space, etc. has in store for us. Granted the vast majority of us have neither the time nor the capacity to build a bunker and stockpile weapons, food, and electronics. I have, however, been slowly amassing canned goods and the like. I just feel like something's coming.

As much as I hate beans out of a can, I'd gladly eat them if they are my only source of nourishment.

Personal opinon? I think weather is going to get freaky on all sorts of spectrums. Where I live here in Illinois we have had one of the snowiest winters since the mid-70s (with more predicted tonight and Tuesday). Last two years I remember temps climbing into the 40s-60s in the second week of March (*). We're forcasted for highs around freezing and snow on and off all this week.

I can see freak storms, daily temp swings, huge pressure variances, disrupture of jet streams .... but I don't see overly drastic climatic changes in any given area over the course of 20 years.

Global warming? Global dimming? How about Global Bipolar Disorder?

[edit on 3/2/2008 by Fiverz]

I personally have felt this way for a long time too. A chain reaction has been started and we dont have the foggiest notion how that chain reaction works, much less how to fix it.

We need to stop breeding so much. Humanities best chance to survive will come from a reduced population. We can starve, or kill each other in wars of desperation, or we can simply and humanely stop making so many new people.

The Pentagon has been studying the possibility he might be right for a while now. If you havent ever seen this, it might be an eye opener.

www.ladlass.com...

BTW, take note that this scenario doesnt address the mass die off of honey bees, or any other "unknown" factors that may hamper food production besides just weather. This study is purely looking at temperature rise and logically associated issues. I think what most people dont realize is that it will NOT be slow and gradual. A couple small things will happen, and then the whole thing will unravel quickly. We vastly underestimate the degree to which "the web of life" as Chief Seattle called it, is inter-dependant. Not to mention the fact of globalization actually puts us at greater risk, as we have over "specialized" production. Anyway, it is a good read.



[edit on 3-3-2008 by Illusionsaregrander]

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


I was just reading about the bee die off or what they are calling colony collapse disorder(CCD). Now I read the bats in the northeast US have some sort of die off going on. I remember a PBS show about the bees and they said somewhere (Japan, China?) they are hand pollinating the apple orchards. That how I some of my vegetable crops to produce - with a paint brush in place of a bee. Cukes seem to respond well.

My own weather forecast, it's going to get hot in the next few years with the next solar cycle. Then it will take a few years but the planet will start getting significantly colder after that. In a few years after that, global cooling will be the big concern along with cleaning up the air from all the smog and continuing down the path of removing greenhouse gases when that will only seem to make the problem worse. However I'm talking 10 to 15 years from now. In the meantime, life will go on despite all the hot air coming out from those talking about the world will end if the temperature increases 0.5 degrees in the next year or two.

The biggest threat we face is ourselves.

I've read all the info on GW and think its total crap myself personally, there is documentable evidence that the earth goes through these changes and that the heating is probably caused by sun activity that increases at various times (I think ever 1000 years or so, sorry I can't quite remember). The temperatures have gone up and down at many times, sometimes its been too hot that things have melted, and at others streams and rivers, even lakes have frozen (I think the last time was when the Thames froze in the 1800s maybe?)

It's like all this crap about flourescent bulbs, they take forever to warm up, they contain mercury so must be disposed of carefully and take FAR more to process and dispose of properly and not to mention manufacture, and then if you don't have them on for hours they actually cost more to run because they don't last as long with all the thermal shock of turning them off an on! It's people who aren't scientists making decisions (i.e. the 'green' government hoping to look like they care and are important and knowledgeable) that's made most of these changes that make no difference.

China makes more gas than anyone, but who's lobbying their government from the US or UK to make them change their ways?

Originally posted by ejsaunders
I've read all the info on GW and think its total crap myself personally, there is documentable evidence that the earth goes through these changes and that the heating is probably caused by sun activity that increases at various times (I think ever 1000 years or so, sorry I can't quite remember). The temperatures have gone up and down at many times, sometimes its been too hot that things have melted, and at others streams and rivers, even lakes have frozen (I think the last time was when the Thames froze in the 1800s maybe?)

You have some of the facts right, at least the general ideas, BUT, that isnt the whole story. There is scientific evidence the climate does fluctuate naturally. (ie: without Human intervention, though we dont know if large events like huge eruptions releasing lots of CO2 might trigger these natural fluctuations.) And we DID have a small blip in temperature that did cause a what is called the "little Ice age" see the link here to Wikipedia for an decent easy to read article with a nice chart showing temperatures.

en.wikipedia.org...

This was not completely harmless to humans as you may note, even though skating on the Thames sounds fun.

What worries climatologists the most is NOT the natural fluctuations, though to be perfectly honest, that would be bad enough, if our planet was headed towards a natural "peak and then valley" in temperature. Our population is huge, and we require food, and even a natural warming trend or "ice age" could cause millions, maybe billions to starve. And some of these people (Europeans) now have nukes. Not everyone is going to lay down and die quietly, like the poor Ethiopians are forced to, some people are going to say screw this and try to move somewhere more suitable, and they might start wars while doing so, which of course, would not be fun.

One of the things that worries climatologists is this data from the Vostok ice cores. (This graph from Wikipedia also)

en.wikipedia.org...:Co2-temperature-plot.svg

This shows the "normal" fluctuations of CO2, and the corresponding temperature increases and decreases. You can see the data goes back some 400 thousand years for the Vostok samples, with CO2 being represented in the light blue, and temperature being represented by the orange lines on the graph. You may notice, that they correlate, or follow each other pretty closely. Now admittedly, it is a simple scientific fact, that correlation DOES NOT prove causation. Anyone who told you it did would be lying. There could be another "cause" we dont understand or have data for, but that said, we dont know that it ISNT the cause either, and anyone who told you they did would be lying through their teeth. Because there is a strong correlation, and because a sharp temperature rise and then drop would devastate us, we have to give it serious consideration, and try to make predictions and figure out what to do using what we have.


At the far right hand side of the graph, you may notice an arrow that says "current CO2 level." THIS is what has some quite concerned. (as far as the natural ups and downs are concerned that is) That point is over twice as high as the highest recorded CO2 concentration on record. This worries us because temperature has historically followed quite closely behind. Notice also that after each "peak" there is a sharp drop, an "ice age." We have no idea what a peak the size of the current one bodes in terms of the corresponding drop. It simply has never happened before, that we know of, and all historical indications seem to point to brutal drop in temperature, that may also exceed any we have data about.

So, bottom line, no one is precisely 100% certain what is going to happen and when. BUT we have a pretty good idea from history what is LIKELY to happen. But because the scale is so off the chart in terms of historical levels, this could happen faster, and be more extreme than what has come before.

What China is doing really isnt the point right now. Sure it would be nice if everyone took this seriously, but the Chinese arent allowed access to information like Americans are. Americans CAN research this stuff themselves and still people dont. They just ignore it. Personally, I think we may have already started something we cant stop, and what we need to do as a species, is figure out how to allow some of us to survive it. And, I would like to see that happen with as little war as possible, as a nuclear winter thrown on top of that just really couldnt help matters. So to me, voluntarily not breeding all crazy seems a reasonable place to start. If food production drops, usually people just starve or slaughter each other. Animals do this too. But we claim to be smarter than the animals, and I just personally wish we would act that way. The kindest, most humane way to lower the population is by having fewer children voluntarily.

sorry major system problem. double post.



[edit on 3-3-2008 by Illusionsaregrander]

reply to post by StellarX

The population decline will not be seen so much among adults as it will in the young.

When I new mother bear emerges with her babies in the spring it will be the babies who cannot reach the shelf.

As a Canadian, now back in Canada, we are seeing the results of climate change first hand.

I recently brought hard lines for phone/internet into some Northern communities in Saskatchewan and they all commented on the berrys being short because of weather change, dramatic decrease in black/honey/brown bear populations.

Also...some bird populations have changed over the past few years with a greater influx of certain species.

The Deni and Cree commented on there trap lines and the change in populations over the past decade because of climate change.

I do not know the cause...I wont argue the cause...my oldest daughter a geoligist disagrees with Al Gore on some points but she does agree that we are undergoing climate change.

reply to post by loam


new york city is goin too be water world lawl

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


If I could flag an individual post I would flag yours. You got a star none the less. That mirrors my anxiety about this climate situation. I am tired of arguing. It seems kind of pointless now. Just planning on maximizing my situation as things turn south.

I'm just so sad and frustrated that we as a species haven't evolved mentally and spiritually beyond settling differences with war and raping the land for raw materials with no thought of future generations.

Humanity will do well when we aim high.

I think most of what is being pushed is mere fallacy. Though I do think we need a happy medium, so to speak; we need to develop unison between nature and technology. Currently, we are lacking greatly in this area, the elites, believe the answer is a one world government. I say look at the tact and morals they display and enforce in order to obtain their stipulated goals... after reviewing the methods and the evidence you should find no feasible means of trusting these people and most likely your respect for these people will be forever lacking, as you should come to realize they are cheapened heartless thugs whom true motive is only greed and power. Their logic is as misguided as it is corrupted.

Global warming is a catalyst for a chain reaction of global failure, methane escape, cap melts, I can't wait, the sooner the global conveyor fails the better.. can't wait for this #ty island to FREEZE!!!!!!!

For those who think he is pessimistic I laugh at you. If history is of any reference whatsoever we can say that people truly don't give a damn. We live in the worst times ever and people make themselves believe it's all fine and dandy because they cannot take the crap.

Why do people always wish to expect the best of things specially in this situation? Expect the worst I tell you, because then it will be unlikely that you will be caught off quard and unable to say " ohhh myyyy we could have never predicted terrorists would fly airliners into skyscrapers - #dolessa Rice ".

lol this guy is a joke, global warming is a hoax


Keeper