"Poor people don't pay taxes"

reply to post by jackinthebox


My first job was bussing tables when i was 15. That was 17 years ago, i made exactly 9,250$ that year when i included all of my tips. I live in Oregon and the minimum wage here is $7.25/hr and that is good if you are 18 or younger....but how can a person be content to work for minimum wage when they have to live outside the protection of their parents home? I have to ask myself what kind of person would strive to work for minimum wage and not try to better their life by getting a higher paying job? If there are none available in the area they live they can move, there are so many government assisted plans to help people get an education that it is sick. I was not eligible for a lot of government granted money because I made too much (18,000) when I applied for loans and grants. I still think that people have the choice to live how they want to but just don't act on it. I lucked into a job (because of all the varieties of jobs i have had) that gives me the ability to make a LOT of money .....but i had to work for it, I can see how easy it is to be complacent but i am not that type of person. I guess I just don't understand because I have been there.

reply to post by Stumpy1

My first job was bussing tables when i was 15.

Then you should know better to throw out that "fries with that" comment. Working in a grease pit sucks, and it's a lot harder than hanging up a phone and saying, "Yup, made fifty mil on that deal, but we're gonna have to lay off a few thousand people."

...but how can a person be content to work for minimum wage when they have to live outside the protection of their parents home?

People aren't content, that is why we see so much crime in America today, the drug market included. And it's even more than a matter of being content. You can't survive on that, yet you will still have to pay taxes on that income that doesn't even cover the cost of basic food, shelter, and clothing. Meanwhile, you have to sit there and listen to people who tell you that you aren't doing enough, and that you are a dead weight on society that doesn't even pay taxes. Which I have already proven is wrong by the way. The working poor do in fact pay taxes.

I have to ask myself what kind of person would strive to work for minimum wage and not try to better their life by getting a higher paying job?

Everyone should strive for that, and I think most people do. But it is not possible for everyone, for a variety of reasons.

Furthermore, even if a person is content to work a lowly job and just punch the clock everyday, they still should be paid enough for basic subsistence. An honest day's work for an honest day's pay. There are plenty of people out there who may not have the physical capability, or the mental faculty to take on more complex jobs either.

If there are none available in the area they live they can move...

Again, there might be many reasons why someone can't just pick up and move. The first one would be the cost. You need at least a few thousand dollars to be able to move to a new town.

there are so many government assisted plans to help people get an education that it is sick.

I agree that there are many programs to help people get an education. But unless you have some sort of support network, free college doesn't really help. You still need the time to go, and the time to study to maintain the required GPA for the funding. Working 60-70 hours a week can make it practically impossible to take advantage of those programs. Furthermore, a college education is no gurantee of a better job.

I was not eligible for a lot of government granted money because I made too much (18,000) when I applied for loans and grants.

You see, how is that really fair? Especially in today's dollars. If you're living on your own, you're in it up to your nose just trying to stay afloat on 18 thou.

I still think that people have the choice to live how they want to but just don't act on it.

I have seen some people make some bad choices, but sometimes for all the right reasons too. I left a state job that I could have plugged away at for the rest of my life, to go run a chain of stores for some really good money. Then the owner decided to liquidate the chain two years later. Talk about a big fat Homer Simpson "Doh!!!" on my part.

But please don't misunderstand me either, I am not saying that people shouldn't step through an open door. And they better be out there knockin' for that matter.

But you know what, if they are content to be a useless slug for the rest of their lives, so be it. Just stay out of my way and enjoy your friggin ramen noodles. I'm not worried about them. What gets my goat is these bailouts for the fat cats at the top, who have made this mess we're in. And I'm not talking about upper classes in America here either, but the top dogs. The elites. I don't think that most middle class Americans even really realize what is happening below them. Ignorance is bliss, until it's their turn to get shoved over the edge and into the abyss. I've seen it happen.

I lucked into a job (because of all the varieties of jobs i have had) that gives me the ability to make a LOT of money .....but i had to work for it, I can see how easy it is to be complacent but i am not that type of person.

There's nothing wrong with pressing a little good luck with a lot of hard work. That's the way it's supposed to be done. And the problems in this country certainly are not the fault of the people who got a break and have made the best of it by pushing it to the limit. Be grateful for what you have though. And don't judge those that didn't get that break.

That's really all I'm trying to argue. Not that everyone is entitled to everything, but that everyone is entitled to the means to at least survive.





[edit on 3/22/0808 by jackinthebox]

reply to post by jackinthebox


If someone wants to work bad enough, they will go out and find a job. And I don't want to hear the excuse that there are no jobs available. McDonlads, Burger King, Wendy's, KFC, etc etc will give a person a job regardless of their race, housing arrangement, hair color, etc. New York is supposed to be so high in unemployment, yet do a monster.com or job.com search for New York and there are thousands of jobs available listed. If an individual claims they cannot get a job, they simply do not want to work. My wife works in Social Services field and these people are so easy to spot. An excuse for everything.

reply to post by jackinthebox

i have not as yet picked up the quote trick for answering back....sorry...


I agree with a lot of what you have to say...but if a person gets an education that is compensatory then that is good.....so many people get degrees that are worthless and they actually spend money on these......my sister in law is a good example..she is an arts major...she is wasting 4 years of her life to end up waiting tables for the same amount of money a teacher would make.....I work for an insurance company now and my wife is in health care and we make well over 100k but we both had to work our assess off to get here. and now someone in our family is asking why me? I still have student loans...I was a surgical tech before i became an agent...i still have student loans....but it is hard to tell her that she does nothing for a job and lives off of the state to attain a job that has no compensatorial gain? my wife and i do well now.....we are not rich by any means but we are middle class according to where we live and i think i might be jaded to this discussion....i hate lazy people i have worked for where i am now at age 32 since i have been 16 and i think a lot of others havent

so they can pay for their own welfare and food stamps because i am done

reply to post by theQuest

McDonlads, Burger King, Wendy's, KFC, etc etc will give a person a job regardless of their race, housing arrangement, hair color, etc.

Okay, well explain to me why I have been turned down for two fast-food jobs despite my extensive and varied work experience.

New York is supposed to be so high in unemployment, yet do a monster.com or job.com search for New York and there are thousands of jobs available listed.

I hit those sites at least once a week and I have yet to secure one single interview from any of those hundreds of applications and resumes I have sent in. So you tell me what the deal is huh?

If an individual claims they cannot get a job, they simply do not want to work.

Yeah, I don't want to work so bad that I'm out hustling for dollars almost every single day just to keep my car insured and some food in my stomach.

EDIT to add: Keep in mind, I get no public assistance and have no home.


[edit on 3/22/0808 by jackinthebox]

reply to post by Stumpy1


I see where you are coming from, I really do. I went to work at 14, and was doing my best to support a house by the time I was sixteen. When my father left, I had mortgage payments and everything else to worry about. A lot of responsibility for a kid in high school, who had grown up pretty well off and suddenly was stuck exchanging canned goods as Christmas gifts.

Maybe I'm a bit biased too, from the other end. I worked my ass off for years, to end up right back here at the bottom. I swore to myself that I would never be homeless again, because it was nearly impossible to get out of that hole and because it nearly killed me. Now here I sit, in a cold car, hacking a signal on a borrowed computer without any prospects and more dejected by the day. I just hope Spring changes the playing field a little. It'll be a lot nicer weather for washing windows anyway.

I really don't care one way or the other about people on food stamps or in public housing. What I care about is people who work everyday and still can't get by.

reply to post by jackinthebox


You have no home? so if you do not rent then you are homeless?.....yet you have a car and can afford insurance in NY city?....then you are much better off than 70% of the city you live in......if you live in NYC and can actually insure your car then you are doin ok.....and you must at least live in a rental..so you should not be bitching
or you should sell your car so you can help out those less fortunate than you...that would be the right thing to do in your case

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by Stumpy1

 

I see where you are coming from, I really do. I went to work at 14, and was doing my best to support a house by the time I was sixteen. When my father left, I had mortgage payments and everything else to worry about. A lot of responsibility for a kid in high school, who had grown up pretty well off and suddenly was stuck exchanging canned goods as Christmas gifts.

Maybe I'm a bit biased too, from the other end. I worked my ass off for years, to end up right back here at the bottom. I swore to myself that I would never be homeless again, because it was nearly impossible to get out of that hole and because it nearly killed me. Now here I sit, in a cold car, hacking a signal on a borrowed computer without any prospects and more dejected by the day. I just hope Spring changes the playing field a little. It'll be a lot nicer weather for washing windows anyway.

I really don't care one way or the other about people on food stamps or in public housing. What I care about is people who work everyday and still can't get by.

I can see you have lived in "it" for a little while ....but there are so many people who do nothing for money and they should never be recognized..i new a guuy who raped mentally retarded people for money ....and was funded by the federal government..they paid him to "rape" (which he did not actually do) people for money.....just to see if they could pay....and a lot of them could....funny thing is they could pay WAY more thant they were asked

reply to post by Stumpy1

...yet you have a car and can afford insurance in NY city?

Further upstate, where you have to have a car. Not much in walking distance. Besides, if I didn't pay my insurance, I would be in a cardboard dumpster right now.

...and you must at least live in a rental...

No, I live in my car mostly.

...or you should sell your car so you can help out those less fortunate than you...

I really hope you're kidding.

reply to post by jackinthebox

Reallly? I hope you are kidding!!!!!!!!!11 If you live in your car then you are really homeless!..............and if you are homeless then maybe you should geta REAL job and not subsidize this post on your government assisted wage........foood stamps are reallly the death Knell.......

reply to post by Stumpy1

and if you are homeless then maybe you should geta REAL job and not subsidize this post on your government assisted wage........foood stamps are reallly the death Knell.......

Don't I know it. Too bad I don't get food stamps. And what government assisted wage would you be referring to? And don't you think that I would much rather have a real job, maybe someplace warm, instead of doing odd jobs like washing windows out in the freezing cold?

reply to post by jackinthebox


You aren't attacking them with the "Gov is out to get me" routine during the interviews, are you? jk


Maybe you aren't going to the corrrect job posting sites.

What part of New York are you in? I can look up to see how many jobs are available in your area, and maybe the ATS Board members can help you get a job. Anythings better than unemployed and homeless, correct?

reply to post by theQuest

You aren't attacking them with the "Gov is out to get me" routine during the interviews, are you?

Only if they say it first!

Maybe you aren't going to the corrrect job posting sites.

I'm even working with a career counselour at the Dept. of Labor. SO believe me, I've hit all sorts of sites and followed all sort of leads.

On a positive note, I do have a job promised to me, contigent on the outcome of my trial. Which of course I am fully confident that the jury will find that I violated no law, and am in fact the victim of a crime perpetrated by two overzealous police officers with a history of violations on their records. One will have to answer for a particulalry serious incident that ocurred not long after my run in with him.

What part of New York are you in? I can look up to see how many jobs are available in your area, and maybe the ATS Board members can help you get a job.

I would prefer to keep some level of anonymity on a site such as this, but I am north of the city. If anyone here on ATS is looking for an employee, by all means, please send me a U2U. I think you could get a better feel for the type of person I am by reading my posts here, than in a half-hour interview.

Anythings better than unemployed and homeless, correct?

I can think of worse things, but that by no means makes my situation acceptable.

Many People don't pay income tax. They pay employment tax and other taxes, including sales tax. The "Bush" tax cuts elimated about 11 million from the income tax rolls. They file but do not pay any income tax. This 11 million is added to the millions that did not pay before the "Bush" tax cuts. On a side note, the Bush tax cuts basically cancelled the Clinton tax increases.

Wow, haven't seen any activity on this thread in a while.

Well, I don't know if I mentioned in this thread yet, since it kept coming up, but I did find a job finally. Still semi-homeless though. (I sneak into rooms and stay in them when the boss isn't on.)

But I still pay taxes.

reply to post by psychedeliack



I think you will find that only 99,880,223 had earned income when filing Federal Tax return. That is what I think you may be talking about. Also, many people who could claim a Federal Tax return never file for that return...and loss that return. So really only about 33 percent of people in the US pay Federal Taxes.

Anyway, the poor do pey other taxes is true. I don't feel bad for them they get benefit of living here too. If they want to work harder and make more money and pay more taxes let them have at it. I think the Government will find a way to wast the money no questions asked.

Um, you are full of it.
Um, if you pay your taxes and are in the lower and low-middle income brackets, with a couple of exemptions, you not only don't PAY fed taxes, you get a check! Don't say it isn't so, I've been there! I KNOW!

Don't get me wrong, I dislike taxes as much, MORE than the next person, but you liberals are really gonna start sweating with the rest of us when the
Obama-nation money printing machine gets rolling. You can't spend spend spend if you've got no income, and where do you think it's going to come from? The Rich????? Ha ha ha! Not enough of them, my bucko. First the Upper-middle class will get it THEN even the Lower-middle income beansprout eating libbies.

Of course, rapidly following that the #e hits the fan big time when oil shoots back up and no one has any more money to spend.

I can't wait.

Hey Jack old buddy old pal,
...leh mee splain to too.

How Taxes Work
This is a VERY simple way to understand the tax laws. Read on it does make you think!!

Let's put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand. Suppose that every day, ten men go out for dinner. The bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men the poorest would pay nothing,
the fifth would pay $1,
the sixth would pay $3,
the seventh $7,
the eighth $12,
the ninth $18,
and the tenth man the richest would pay $59.

That's what they decided to do. The ten men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement until one day, the owner threw them a curve (in tax language a tax cut).

"Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20." So now dinner for the ten only cost $80.00.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still eat for free. But what about the other six the paying customers? How could they divvy up the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his "fair share?"

The six men realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would end up being PAID to eat their meal. So the restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so the fifth man paid nothing,
the sixth pitched in $2,
the seventh paid $5,
the eighth paid $9,
the ninth paid $12,
leaving the tenth man with a bill of $52 instead of his earlier $59.

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to eat for free.

But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man who pointed to the tenth. "But he got $7!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man, "I only saved a dollar, too . . . It's unfair that he got seven times more than me!".

"That's true!" shouted the seventh man, "why should he get $7 back when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison, "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night he didn't show up for dinner, so the nine sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered, a little late what was very important. They were FIFTY-TWO DOLLARS short of paying the bill! Imagine that!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college instructors, is how the tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up at the table anymore.

Where would that leave the rest? Unfortunately, most taxing authorities anywhere cannot seem to grasp this rather straightforward logic!

knock yourself out

reply to post by jackinthebox


Not only do I PAY taxes, but because I made a "typo" my check was returned along with a $40 penalty. I have never been late paying taxes. I am 63 years old, fixed income, and I am disabled until I get a hip replacement later this summer.

I called the Indiana Department of Revenue and apologized for my "typo". I was actually in tears, because that $40 is a big deal to me. The woman talked to her supervisor. She came back on the phone and told me "We are sorry but because it is your fault, there is nothing we can do, you have to pay the penalty".. I lost it. I have had it. You try to do the right thing, but God forbid you make a mistake. In fact I told this woman that God forgives mistakes, but obviously the Indiana Department of Revenue doesn't.

who's not paying any taxes??

money.cnn.com...

those who can take advantage of all the nice tax credits and deductions!!!
they are many within the lower income bracket that don't, but also many in the upper income brackets that don't!!!

the fact of the matter is that if the gov't done away with all these tax credits and deductions their revenue would increase by more than 100%, that's right, their is more given away in tax credits and deductions than the gov't takes in!

so, well, here's an idea, let's just do away with all but a standard deduction for us and our dependents, then the gov't can decrease the tax rates by about a third and still end up bringing in more money than they are now!!! and we can all afford to file our taxes at the end of the year because the tax system would be so much simpler!