The confidence illusion

Once again Orangetom lays it our as it is. Again yet another article aimed at neutering the american male, then the ones who actually try to live up to the man requested in this article find out that this ends up in them on here crying because thier girlfriend dumped them for someone who didn't. If you really look at what this article is saying and then look at Orangetom's dissection of it, you will see it's true aim is to try and convince you to reject what comes naturally to you as a male. This is not to say that I am advocating sleeping with everything that you can, personally I choose to be selective about what I breed with because truthfully to me an ultimately unsuitable mate equals unsuitable children, but that is just me. But you should not feel bad about enjoying the company of as many women as you possibly can, because of those many very few will meet your personal requirements and persoanl set of needs.

Bravo Jovi1...Bravo...well said...well said.

I too am not advocating sleeping with everything and everyone you can but be selective as there is alot of wildlife out there. But while you are enjoying the company of numerous women ...also be thinking and learning about patterns in and of life through social interactions with women. How they think, What they value, How this belief/religion will make them act. Do they really have the capacity to understand how you think and what is missing from your life..and I dont mean sex here. How they can be a part of this missing commodity from your life. To be a help meet...not a help yourself meet by getting you to take on their value system while not offering anything of real lasting intrinsic value.

And I am not talking about a romantic comedy. Life takes real work and sweat..not romantic comedys.

One more thing..as a man ..we do not define ourselves by our sexuality. This is just pl,ain stupid. When I detect this fingerprint in a woman...that this is the height of her skills and value as a woman ....I mark her. She, too, is just plain stupid. It takes more than sex and beauty to be a real woman in this world. Being a man or woman is internal first. A empty outer shell is worthless....just like this article we are dissecting.
This article, just like so many out here among the wildlife, clearly indicates that sex is such a highly valuable commodity as leverage ,that it loses its value among those of us who know the difference when dealing with wildlife. Therefore women like this in the article also lose thier value.

Correct on the unsuitable mate phenomonon you describe. This to me also means No Peace in your life. Very important to a man who knows the difference.

Bravo Jovi1...well said ..well said!!

Orangetom


[edit on 27-2-2008 by orangetom1999]

Originally posted by orangetom1999

Originally posted by PeaceUk
Good find
This article makes sense and is not bashing guys at all, one of the guys who writes is a guy.
They are not making generalisations they are just talking from experience.

This article is as cheap and ignorant as the jerks they are describing. It is a womans way of justifying her own jerkdom.

I am not saying that there are no male jerks out here.....there most certainly are.

I am saying that this is not the answer. It is doublespeak.

This guy writing in this article is as doublespeak as is the woman.

Occasionally I read Cosmopolitan, Elle, and Redbook and take the quizzes to keep abreast of the nonsense and the formats they try to use in passing off as intelligence. I read the occasional romance novel too. This is how I am familiar with the pattern/fingerprint of the language used in this article.

This article does not make good nonsense once you learn to think it through.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Ugh I totally agree.

I don't understand why in these magazines people feel the need to generalise and stereotype groups of people. Especially of the opposite sex. They don't know what they're talking about, and they're teaching people things that could very well be untrue. People are different, and you certainly can not consider all men one thing and all women another thing. You can't categorise people as 'jerks', create a bunch of assumptions about them and present it as truth.

Like orangetom said, it's just a way for the author to justify either her own bigotry or why she went out with someone she now deems a 'jerk'.

You guys are taking the surface impression of the article to heart.

Look deeper. Think about it. You aren't seeing the big picture.

The article speaks volumes, and what it's saying isn't what you think.

We are looking deeper, and closely at what this article is truly representing. You see it as an admonishment of women for falling for the "player" and on the surface it is, which through your eyes you see as being a good thing, but it isn't because it is demanding that women fight thier own natural instincts. What we are saying is that if the so called nice guys, would learn to use the skills that the players use a little bit this would be a non issue.

You know...one of the guys at work brought in a magazine called "Maxim."
I asked him if I could take a look at it. Low and behold...and to my surprise... I quickly realized it was a male version of Cosmopolitan, Elle, Redbook et al.
It had the same kind of advertisements....very overpriced...same kind of self indulgence and shallowness.

What I did not see in it was "quizzes." I surmized by this that the male psyche does not respond favorably to quizzes.

Nonetheless I surmised that it was a male cosmo. And also of the lowest common denominator. The feature article as I reacall was about someone named Iggy Pop. A singer I think..rock. I am not a fan so I may have this incorrect.

What I am saying is that someone has found a way or avenue to bring the male into this kind of drivel too.

It struck me as being like Cosmopolitan, Elle , Redblook...et al...in teaching or instructing one to be a "player" or be nothing.

It also struck me as the lowest common denominator.

And once again this stuff about being a "player." These magazines ..male and female ..preach and teach this kind of debauchery with the underlying theme..."your worth it the others aren't!!" Its pitiful when you think it through. I got the same message/impression from the article by the OP.

Orangetom

I knew a guy who slept with a girl from a party, the next morning he said to her "whoa I got way too drunk last night, you're ugly, beat it".

Now see, that's not being a "player" - that's being a misogynistic ahole.

Most players love women - and women love players!

There's nothing wrong with being a "player" if that's the lifestyle you want to live. Whether or not you genuinely love women and treat them with respect, that's a different issue....

Well MrdDstbr,

Here is where you and I are going to differ. I dont see him as being a player..nor a misogynistic ahole. I see him as being stupid. Her too, for that matter. As long as they were both "unsober" they were fine. When they sobered up they had a problem. Now that is stupid. They are both at fault here and sold themselves short. Both of them.

And being a player is overated. Its a bull s--t way of getting someones hard earned moneys. Male and female. Be a man instead.
What a cheap tacky term for being on the string...player.
However ..just as stupid in this context is a man who must get drunk in order to be a "player" or what he thinks is a man. For thinks is a man you can substitute ..the appearence of a man. Not a real man.

To my limited knowlege .....Stupid does not discriminate male or female. Stupid is an equal opportunity employer.
Stupid in this context also applies to the article by the OP.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by orangetom1999
Stupid does not discriminate male or female. Stupid is an equal opportunity employer. Stupid in this context also applies to the article by the OP.

lmao I like the way you put things orangetom.

btw does your name mean you have an orange cat? Big fat orange tabby cats are da BOMB man, I used to have one. He was always running off going courting, he apparently had the sex drive of a rhino with the way he'd come home tore all to heck from fighting for the girls. lolol

Very good guess bachelor..precisely..

My screen name extends from my orange tabby cat. For some reason some folks think I am Protestant Irish from the protestant irish term Orangeman. Not so.

It does extend from my current orange tabby cat...named Oda Mae.

I do not however have any ambition to go out running down women and fighting over them....ie..getting all torn up in the process of marking out territory. LOL LOL, I never engaged in such " stupidity." To many women out here to be fighting over them.

I love the women but dont engage in such foolish competition for them. I long ago learned that women hunt and gather much more effeciently than do most men. Older women taught me that.

Good guess Bachelor.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Very good guess bachelor..precisely..

My screen name extends from my orange tabby cat. For some reason some folks think I am Protestant Irish from the protestant irish term Orangeman. Not so.

It does extend from my current orange tabby cat...named Oda Mae.

I do not however have any ambition to go out running down women and fighting over them....ie..getting all torn up in the process of marking out territory. LOL LOL, I never engaged in such " stupidity." To many women out here to be fighting over them.

I love the women but dont engage in such foolish competition for them. I long ago learned that women hunt and gather much more effeciently than do most men. Older women taught me that.

Good guess Bachelor.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by orangetom1999
Here is where you and I are going to differ. I dont see him as being a player..nor a misogynistic ahole. I see him as being stupid. Her too, for that matter.

Can't argue with you there. I really was referring to another guy who related this story to me, BTW.

And being a player is overated. Its a bull s--t way of getting someones hard earned moneys.

No, that's being a gigolo, Deuce :p

Be a man instead.
What a cheap tacky term for being on the string...player.

Well, whatever - it's only a word, after all! Such rage, over a simple word!

The point is to live the lifestyle that YOU want, with the kind of people that YOU want. Not settle for the first person who comes along, demands a commitment, and "substitutes her beliefs and values for yours", as you so eloquently put it.

Now, is that "being a man", or being a "player" - who cares? They are only words!

However ..just as stupid in this context is a man who must get drunk in order to be a "player" or what he thinks is a man. For thinks is a man you can substitute ..the appearence of a man. Not a real man.

Again, can't argue with you there. "Liquid Courage" is a poor substitute for real courage.

bwahahaha you guys are kill'n me.

funny stuff in this forum, and really refreshing too. The stiff, robotic stuff kind of makes my brain fizzle out or something after awhile so it's nice to see some humor thrown around here and there.

Why do you guys and gals even bother with this stuff?

I just don't understand the need to understand what the opposite sex thinks when it is to do with a generalisation or an opinion based on a generalisation.

Do people really go out and put on an act?

Well, if that is so, as per the article and label of the behavior, then great, let us hope the mirror image prevails and they get what they think.

reply to post by orangetom1999


oh good to see you on the boards Orangetom... any thread with your contribution/wisdom re relationships is a fortunate one indeed!

cheers
NJE777 (Natalie)

Natalie,

Good grief Natalie darling..where have you been?? It's been a long time since I have seen your posts. I hope all is well with you down under.

I have been working some awkward shifts for the last year so my time on the boards has been at a premium. Sporadic at best. However...all of that has come to an end and we have completed our work in which we were heavily engaged for the last year. Now I am on more sane hours than was previoiusly the case. I actually have off a whole weekend.

Up late here and standing the night watch so to speak here in Virginia. As I have previously stated in other boards..I am somewhat of a night creature and not much of a daywalker.

I did not recognize you under that name...Thurisaz. Very very good to see your post here on the relationships boards again. I shall have to remember your new name.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by Thurisaz
oh good to see you on the boards Orangetom... any thread with your contribution/wisdom re relationships is a fortunate one indeed!

Her calling men "dumb" or "stupid" in half her posts is "wisdom"?

Or, is it "bitterness"?

Hmmm......

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr

Originally posted by Thurisaz
oh good to see you on the boards Orangetom... any thread with your contribution/wisdom re relationships is a fortunate one indeed!

Her calling men "dumb" or "stupid" in half her posts is "wisdom"?
Or, is it "bitterness"?
Hmmm......

I have never called anyone dumb or stupid on ATS.

Orangetom has imo, for the nearly 2 1/2 years I have been on ATS, been very helpful and most understanding, oh and genuine with responses.

I am entitled to my opinion of another member.

thanks

Originally posted by Thurisaz
I have never called anyone dumb or stupid on ATS.

No not you, orangetom. She calls men "dumb" or "stupid" in the overwhelming majority of her "Relationships" posts.

Don't be bitter, orangetom - men DO learn from their "stupid" mistakes, eventually!

OH no..I understand and to my knowlege Natalie has not called anyone dumb or stupid. Natalie has more tact than do I.
I on the otherhand have called men dumb and stupid continuously.
I agree with Natalie. Natalie is entitled to her opinion as are we all.

I must be doing something correctly as MrDstbr..You still think I am female. Keep up the good work. YOu will save me alot of work here in making my points.

I say this because almost none of the males in this thread seem to catch on to what I posted about the article. For all that matter neither did most of the females. Those females who do know are not wont to point it out as was I....but expect to play through unchallanged as did the woman in the article.
I think this is a line of reasoning of which more men should be awares. Difficult to do when so many have their minds on sports and oil shortage drivel...ie..textbook guy stuff.

Once again ..food for thought and in the Readers Digest format too.

Thanks,
Orangetom