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The confidence illusion
page: 1share:
In light of the vast multitudes of gullible women who claim they're so attracted to "confidence" in a guy... and that "confidence" is what is so
sexy in a guy... and that the lack of "confidence" is what is such a turn off in guys... it was really refreshing to read this article I found
linked on Yahoo's homepage in which a woman seems to have actually figured it out.
A quote from the article:
There is perhaps, hope for females afterall...
dating.personals.yahoo.com...
[edit on 24-2-2008 by Bachelor]
A quote from the article:
Here's how the jerk spell works: we meet the jerk and in some twisted way are seduced by his confidence, charm, and passion. We don't see these as the disguises they are: confidence is really arrogance, charm comes from him being a player, and his passion is being the center of his own universe.
There is perhaps, hope for females afterall...
dating.personals.yahoo.com...
[edit on 24-2-2008 by Bachelor]
Uh oh! They've found us out!
Well seriously though,(link doesn't work, so going by the quote) it sounds like the woman who wrote that just sucks at finding the right guy. We're not all jerks. :shk:
Well seriously though,(link doesn't work, so going by the quote) it sounds like the woman who wrote that just sucks at finding the right guy. We're not all jerks. :shk:
Fixed link...
I didn't take it as that she's branding all guys jerks, not at all. The author merely was taking the number one quality that women are attracted to in men, and exposing it for the misty illusion that it is.
I didn't take it as that she's branding all guys jerks, not at all. The author merely was taking the number one quality that women are attracted to in men, and exposing it for the misty illusion that it is.
reply to post by Bachelor
So if a guy is acting charming, passionate or confident you'd automatically think they were insincere? Some people are genuinly charming, passionate and/or confident. Those qualities should be evaluated on a person by person basis, not through generalizations, right?
ps: Link still doesn't work by the way, try a dirct link.
So if a guy is acting charming, passionate or confident you'd automatically think they were insincere? Some people are genuinly charming, passionate and/or confident. Those qualities should be evaluated on a person by person basis, not through generalizations, right?
ps: Link still doesn't work by the way, try a dirct link.
yes Bachelor,
The link does not work. I typed in The Jerk Spell on Google and came up with this link.
www.spartantailgate.com...
Hope I got it correct.
From what I have quickly scanned over..let me say this.
"Jerry...Jerry....Jerry. The Jerry Springer chant!!"
More victimization. Standard issue. What nauseum.
Thanks,
Orangetom
[edit on 24-2-2008 by orangetom1999]
The link does not work. I typed in The Jerk Spell on Google and came up with this link.
www.spartantailgate.com...
Hope I got it correct.
From what I have quickly scanned over..let me say this.
"Jerry...Jerry....Jerry. The Jerry Springer chant!!"
More victimization. Standard issue. What nauseum.
Thanks,
Orangetom
[edit on 24-2-2008 by orangetom1999]
Maybe my perception is a little different because I don't see it as a man-bashing article, I'd be offended myself if it was since I am a man. It's
only insulting towards men that legitimately are jerks... and granted, a lot are. Who the article REALLY is insulting though is all the women out
there who won't give a nice guy a chance because they're too busy being impressed with the A-Holes that have "confidence".
[edit on 24-2-2008 by Bachelor]
[edit on 24-2-2008 by Bachelor]
I read the article. All I can say is it's very entertaining.
It's all the men's fault, we are manipulative jerks, thats the jist of it. I mean, of course, what else is new.
It's all the men's fault, we are manipulative jerks, thats the jist of it. I mean, of course, what else is new.
"Confidence" is simply the willingness/ability to take risks and try to flirt with a woman. Make physical contact. Try to lead her to a private
place, etc etc.
If that makes a guy a "player" instead of a "nice guy" - well then, so be it.
Not all players are A-holes....
If that makes a guy a "player" instead of a "nice guy" - well then, so be it.
Not all players are A-holes....
Lets take a moment and analyze this one for a moment, which should be more appealing the man who walks unafraid of who he is or the one who is too
afraid to make a move? To a degree you are right the confidence is an illusion, the major issue is that all the “nice” guys are too afraid to take
it and use it to their benefit. As to the women choosing the ones that use it to their advantage well it really isn’t their fault it is the way they
are wired. Dominant men will get the best nearly every time, why? Because it is natural. The thing most “nice” guys seem to miss is that they can
still be the good guys, and be confident, charming and funny. Most of the nice guys are to caught up in playing the knight in shining armor routine,
when if they came down off their high horse a little bit let it get a little dirty and dinged up they would get so much further. The really sad part
of it is many of these “nice” guys lose out on women that are already physically attracted to them but lack the ability to show their rougher
nature.
Ive seen variations of this type of article over and over and over ad naseum. They are typical and textbook.
Often these types of articles need a translation to get through the coded hidden esoteric drivel.....ie...girlstuff religion/terminology.
Watch this statement carefully. It is going to crop up later in context of the wholeness of the article once the translation is complete.
This is his fault for being a jerk or is this double speak?? And what would make a woman think she deserves all this from a man?? Conversely what is she in fact offering for all this expectation from a man??
I hope todays "smart " woman understands that there is a generation of young men out here who are finding computers and video games much more satisfying than this double speak from women. And they are maintaining this attitude into their thirtys...when ,many a womans biology is begining to run out. Pumkin time Cinderella?? Many of these young men find computers and video games much more satisfying than a womans expectations/girl stuff religion. How are you women going to compete with this?? Nagging??
No where in articles such as these do you ever find what it is of intrinsic value that women are actually offering for all this expectation they have of a man.
However to be fair. ...I dont think many men can actually think this far. They just know instinctively to duck this type of woman.
Translation...you are owed love on your terms woman...why would you ever expect to question your value system. After all...how can a man possibly turn down this?? You have invested so much of value in yourself.
The very sad thing for so many men is that they often cannot see this for the substitution scheme that it is. An attempt by social beliefs and expectations to substitute a mans value system for hers. Once again..no where do you ever see what a woman is offering for this change of values. Nowhere!!! It is always implicit..never explicit. This is double speak. It would require commitment for a woman to make a statement like this as to what of real intrinsic value they are offereing for this attempt at substitution. But only men or males can be commitment phobes...correct???
I have posed this question to numerous women and it is obvious. So few even want to attempt to answer what it is of intrinsic value they have to offer for thier expectations of a man. Amazing!!
It is very easy for many women to appear mature in articles like this when thier primary social expectations are of someone else to perform up to expectations. Translation ...to commit.
ONce again..what are they offering for this level of commitment?? No where in these types of articles do you see this answer.
Translation..you must tryout and pass muster. Like trying out for a baseball team. Tryouts. This way she doesnt have to commit but only direct from the sidelines. Translation..she is leading you..directing the show.
Here it is..the beginings of the substitution grooming. To substitute your beliefs and values for hers. Once again..what is she offering for this attempt at substitution. As I said most men cannot think this far but operate on rote here.
LOL LOL LOL..notice how generous she is here?? One date..one attempt at tryouts. Remember my statement that video games are becoming more satisfying than this drivel to many young men?? Thats quite a feather in a womans hat to have to compete with video games.
Now this is textbook...typical of todays sophisticated woman. It is a mindset. To get what he wants??? The implication here is sexual..but it implys so much more. There is a veiled implication that he used her to get what " he " wants.
YOu mean she slept with him to get what she wanted...and didnt get it so there is some kind of disparity going on here?? She was cheated?? It was not a equal exchange ..value for value?? Substance for substance?? If so than there was something implicit here..not explicit.
This could not possibly be sex for sex...because men only take sex..they dont ever give sex...hence the disparity. He used her..or misused here. There is a social implication here that does not stand up once you see it for what it is.
She has all the value between her legs and in her body..he has no value..hence he owes her much more..he's a jerk! It was not sex for sex..because men only take sex...they never give sex too.
I see variations of this over and over and over. Most men have difficulty overcoming this from women and will not speak ..but only keep muted silence. Amazing. This is another variation of substituting value systems.
Back to this first statement I quoted above about a man becoming the center of his own universe. This is one manner in which this dogma is justified. It is never sex for sex..it is always uneven because he "Used her." Amazing!!
Think it through guys..once you understand this ..the rest of the articles like this began to shred quickly.
Once again in articles like this ..what is she offering for her expectations and belief systems and the attempt to substitute hers for yours?? What commodity in the marketplace against her competition???
Notice also ..this article does not mention in explicitness ..the competition. Only implcit.
To me the guys replys under "He says" are just as immature as the womans perspective.
As I said...Jerry Jerry Jerry!!!! Reference here to the Jerry Springer Show. Goodness me..I dislike drama queens..male and female.
Being a player is overated...I hear the guys at work use this term and it sickens me. This term comes across as a cheap ad
for a cheap product.
I disliked this term the first time I heard it. It is of the lowest common deneominator in thinking.
When I detect women using this terminology I surmise that they are as cleap, unintelligent, and superficial as the men about which they are nagging.
I dont worry but so much about what a woman thinks. If she attempts to replace my value system with hers but so far..I will bring her up short and quickly.
There are areas in this world which are very male in values and thinking and areas which are female. I dont like to mix the two. A woman can deal with it or keep quiet..or failing that ..make up the difference herself from her career earnings...just like I do. That will seperate the women from the girls very quickly.
Well ..thats my translation.
Orangetom
[edit on 25-2-2008 by orangetom1999]
Often these types of articles need a translation to get through the coded hidden esoteric drivel.....ie...girlstuff religion/terminology.
charm comes from him being a player, and his passion is being the center of his own universe.
Watch this statement carefully. It is going to crop up later in context of the wholeness of the article once the translation is complete.
We use our normally rational inner voice to convince ourselves that we can tame him or that with the right kind of girlfriend he will lose his jerk armor and transform into a leading man fit for a romantic comedy.
This is his fault for being a jerk or is this double speak?? And what would make a woman think she deserves all this from a man?? Conversely what is she in fact offering for all this expectation from a man??
I hope todays "smart " woman understands that there is a generation of young men out here who are finding computers and video games much more satisfying than this double speak from women. And they are maintaining this attitude into their thirtys...when ,many a womans biology is begining to run out. Pumkin time Cinderella?? Many of these young men find computers and video games much more satisfying than a womans expectations/girl stuff religion. How are you women going to compete with this?? Nagging??
No where in articles such as these do you ever find what it is of intrinsic value that women are actually offering for all this expectation they have of a man.
However to be fair. ...I dont think many men can actually think this far. They just know instinctively to duck this type of woman.
A jerk loves being a jerk -- way more than he loves us
Translation...you are owed love on your terms woman...why would you ever expect to question your value system. After all...how can a man possibly turn down this?? You have invested so much of value in yourself.
The very sad thing for so many men is that they often cannot see this for the substitution scheme that it is. An attempt by social beliefs and expectations to substitute a mans value system for hers. Once again..no where do you ever see what a woman is offering for this change of values. Nowhere!!! It is always implicit..never explicit. This is double speak. It would require commitment for a woman to make a statement like this as to what of real intrinsic value they are offereing for this attempt at substitution. But only men or males can be commitment phobes...correct???
I have posed this question to numerous women and it is obvious. So few even want to attempt to answer what it is of intrinsic value they have to offer for thier expectations of a man. Amazing!!
It is very easy for many women to appear mature in articles like this when thier primary social expectations are of someone else to perform up to expectations. Translation ...to commit.
ONce again..what are they offering for this level of commitment?? No where in these types of articles do you see this answer.
but when he asks for your number tell him that you only date guys who prove their value by respecting a woman.
Translation..you must tryout and pass muster. Like trying out for a baseball team. Tryouts. This way she doesnt have to commit but only direct from the sidelines. Translation..she is leading you..directing the show.
If he sincerely accepts your ground rules, then chances are you should give him at least one date to prove he's relationship material.
Here it is..the beginings of the substitution grooming. To substitute your beliefs and values for hers. Once again..what is she offering for this attempt at substitution. As I said most men cannot think this far but operate on rote here.
LOL LOL LOL..notice how generous she is here?? One date..one attempt at tryouts. Remember my statement that video games are becoming more satisfying than this drivel to many young men?? Thats quite a feather in a womans hat to have to compete with video games.
As much as I hate to say it, girls love jerks! At least until the jerk stops calling, which is usually right after he gets what he wants.
Now this is textbook...typical of todays sophisticated woman. It is a mindset. To get what he wants??? The implication here is sexual..but it implys so much more. There is a veiled implication that he used her to get what " he " wants.
YOu mean she slept with him to get what she wanted...and didnt get it so there is some kind of disparity going on here?? She was cheated?? It was not a equal exchange ..value for value?? Substance for substance?? If so than there was something implicit here..not explicit.
This could not possibly be sex for sex...because men only take sex..they dont ever give sex...hence the disparity. He used her..or misused here. There is a social implication here that does not stand up once you see it for what it is.
She has all the value between her legs and in her body..he has no value..hence he owes her much more..he's a jerk! It was not sex for sex..because men only take sex...they never give sex too.
I see variations of this over and over and over. Most men have difficulty overcoming this from women and will not speak ..but only keep muted silence. Amazing. This is another variation of substituting value systems.
Back to this first statement I quoted above about a man becoming the center of his own universe. This is one manner in which this dogma is justified. It is never sex for sex..it is always uneven because he "Used her." Amazing!!
Think it through guys..once you understand this ..the rest of the articles like this began to shred quickly.
Once again in articles like this ..what is she offering for her expectations and belief systems and the attempt to substitute hers for yours?? What commodity in the marketplace against her competition???
Notice also ..this article does not mention in explicitness ..the competition. Only implcit.
To me the guys replys under "He says" are just as immature as the womans perspective.
As I said...Jerry Jerry Jerry!!!! Reference here to the Jerry Springer Show. Goodness me..I dislike drama queens..male and female.
Being a player is overated...I hear the guys at work use this term and it sickens me. This term comes across as a cheap ad
for a cheap product.
I disliked this term the first time I heard it. It is of the lowest common deneominator in thinking.
When I detect women using this terminology I surmise that they are as cleap, unintelligent, and superficial as the men about which they are nagging.
I dont worry but so much about what a woman thinks. If she attempts to replace my value system with hers but so far..I will bring her up short and quickly.
There are areas in this world which are very male in values and thinking and areas which are female. I dont like to mix the two. A woman can deal with it or keep quiet..or failing that ..make up the difference herself from her career earnings...just like I do. That will seperate the women from the girls very quickly.
Well ..thats my translation.
Orangetom
[edit on 25-2-2008 by orangetom1999]
reply to post by orangetom1999
..........
What?
I was trying to read through your post, orangetom, but I just....... started.......... daydreaming.................
No, NEVER let a woman run mind-control on you! You're right, NEVER let a woman "substitute" her beliefs and values for yours!
Stick to your guns, guys!
..........
What?
I was trying to read through your post, orangetom, but I just....... started.......... daydreaming.................
No, NEVER let a woman run mind-control on you! You're right, NEVER let a woman "substitute" her beliefs and values for yours!
Stick to your guns, guys!
Wow Orangetom you really put a lot of time and thought into that post, it made for an interesting read too.
I don't see a piccy thingy for a thumbs up so just imagine a thumbs up LOL.
I don't see a piccy thingy for a thumbs up so just imagine a thumbs up LOL.
Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
reply to post by orangetom1999
..........
What?
I was trying to read through your post, orangetom, but I just....... started.......... daydreaming.................
No, NEVER let a woman run mind-control on you! You're right, NEVER let a woman "substitute" her beliefs and values for yours!
Stick to your guns, guys!
Actually MrdDstbr,
If a woman has a commodity of real intrinsic value to offer me ..I dont mind making changes in in values in certain arenas. Why??...because she is worth it against the competition...most of which have airheaded values just like much of the nonsense quoted in the article.
Sex and beauty are not real value to me. They are placebos. Sugar pills. A beautiful sexy woman with no real value other that those items is high maintenance. Ive had enough of the high maintenance types with short attention spans. No thanks. She can be beautiful and sexy but only if she has the other requirements too. They come first. A beautiful sexy high maintenance woman is in fact ugly. Very ugly.
By the way..you never hear this explicitness in these types of articles. It is alway implicit that she has everything..you as a male must try out for approval against her everything...what nonsense.
Always remember the concept of implicitness verses explicitness.
The most difficult commodity I find to obtain from todays woman is Peace...not ..Piece. Peace requires real understanding and commitment from a woman. Piece only requires the appearance of commitment from most...while substituting and compromising your value systems in the other areas. Dont ever try to tell me that only men are commitment phobes. I'll never buy into that.
I am certain that most of you guys are younger than am I. Nothing wrong with that most certainly. It is just that most men dont learn this at sufficiently young enough ages to make a difference in market trends. You should know and learn this at younger ages and be able to apply it when warrented. This way you dont have to put up with or tolerate such nonsense from women or females trying to pass for intelligent or sophisticated when they are not.
You also dont have to listen to or tolerate this nonsense from other males about .... "being a player." What nonsense!! Try being a man instead.
But this also means that you yourselves must know the difference and know with confidence. Most of the women out here are not accustomed to men being able to think outside of the glandular oil shortage level. You can tell this by many of the assumptions in the posts on the relationship boards. Most of the women are correct in this about most of the men out here.
Give you guys an example in thinking here.
This type or variations of this statement from the article
As much as I hate to say it, girls love jerks! At least until the jerk stops calling, which is usually right after he gets what he wants.
Ive had numerous women try to play through on making me malliable/programmable to thier viewpoints by implying that I come to them for only one thing. Right here and immediately is where you need to bring them up short.
I simply tell them in no uncertain terms that they are not sitting on the only one in town. It is not a commodity in short supply. It will not become extinct and on the endangered species list anytime soon. It is not difficult to get women to come over and take off thier clothes. As a matter of fact I know women who will come over and take off thier clothes just to show the other woman that she is not sitting on the only one in town.
Then I proceed to explain to her that she can give me Piece if she wants....or not give it to me at all....but it requires something more ..much more than Piece to stick around.
Guess what guys...at least half of the women will give you Piece..because it is the only thing they know and requires less commitment than the alternative. Of the other half about half of them will walk..which is ok too. Of the half of the remaining half you watch them closely to see if they are able to grasp the concept and understand if they know what to do with it. They might have potential. This is the portion you want to watch carefully for long term potential. That is ...if you are looking long term.
Most of the women are not accustomed to a male thinking like this as stated...they are mostly accustomed to oil shortage mentality.
You guys need to know and understand this as it is a useful tool for survival in the mine field of nonsense out here.
Oh and another thing I want to point out about nonsense and doublespeak from the original article. Watch this here.
First contrast in doublespeak as I had forgotten to put this in in my last post.
charm comes from him being a player, and his passion is being the center of his own universe
Watch the universe getting set up here and at the guys expense. More doublespeak
We use our normally rational inner voice to convince ourselves that we can tame him or that with the right kind of girlfriend he will lose his jerk armor and transform into a leading man fit for a romantic comedy.
and followed by this to close the deal in doublspeak.
i]A jerk loves being a jerk -- way more than he loves us
Concerning these three quotes and doublespeak... the assumption is that he is setting up his universe but the correct social setting is in fact ...her universe..why is this?? Because by her girl stuff religion she can justify a "romantic comedy situation as a type of entitlement through the act of "taming him"!!! Wow!!!
This type of nonsense is right out of a Cosmopolitan, Redbook, Elle magazine quiz and all the tips on how to be more of a "woman", right down to the act of "Taming Him." Its textbook of this genre and the language/doublespeak used to justify this. You also find this nonsense as a standard bill of fare in romance novels.
Got it yet...you are competing with romance novels and quizzes as a intelligent, sophisticated, mature standard!!!???
Who is in fact setting up the universe here and expecting of others?? That is the doublespeak.
Remember also..many of us men or males out here work in dangerous occupations to earn our moneys. We can be killed or maimed for life in our occupations. We do not get a safety net put under us by women seeking to remove us from the danger of our money earning occupations. To flashdance us through lifes hurdles and difficultys. To do this would require real commitment from a woman. Yet the best fantasy expectation she has here is to fit us into a "romantic comedy???" Wow!! This is sophisticated and mature!! I can hardly wait.!!
Who is selling who short here?? This is the universe I am supposed to change my values for and cede/yeild after sleeping with her and letting her tame me??
If he doesnt do this for her he is a jerk?? Please lady. Give me a break.
This is real intrinsic value???
No it is doublespeak. Who is the Jerk here??
Does this sound like a rational logical reasonable inner voice??
One more thing...this is a woman hunting and gathering and the justification for it?? Dont ever be so stupid as a male that you dont understand that women hunt and gather too. It is not just the males. However..this is the how it is rationalized....she deserves a romantic comedy??
And you as a male think you have problems with your oil shortage?? Wow!!
YOu dont have to put up with this nonsense trying to pass for sophistication when it is not. Otherwise you will put yourself in a position of taking second best when socially required over and over to put out and expend first best. Why ..because she ,by your ignorance, lays the groundwork for you to follow her lead....by trying out for approval.
You guys need to know better and differently and at a younger age.
Thanks,
Orangetom
[edit on 26-2-2008 by orangetom1999]
[edit on 26-2-2008 by orangetom1999]
[edit on 26-2-2008 by orangetom1999]
reply to post by orangetom1999
Yes yes orangetom, expect more from women than simply having a pretty face and being good at waving their rear end around. Screen them for qualities that are important for LTRs - loyalty, honesty, Trustworthiness, intelligence etc.
I don't really understand why we need pages and pages of fancy terminology to express that simple concept
Yes yes orangetom, expect more from women than simply having a pretty face and being good at waving their rear end around. Screen them for qualities that are important for LTRs - loyalty, honesty, Trustworthiness, intelligence etc.
I don't really understand why we need pages and pages of fancy terminology to express that simple concept
reply to post by MrdDstrbr
Because MrdDstbr...not everyone does well with the Readers Digest version. You should know this.
Orangetom
I don't really understand why we need pages and pages of fancy terminology to express that simple concept
Because MrdDstbr...not everyone does well with the Readers Digest version. You should know this.
Orangetom
Good find
This article makes sense and is not bashing guys at all, one of the guys who writes is a guy.
They are not making generalisations they are just talking from experience.
This article makes sense and is not bashing guys at all, one of the guys who writes is a guy.
They are not making generalisations they are just talking from experience.
Originally posted by PeaceUk
Good find
This article makes sense and is not bashing guys at all, one of the guys who writes is a guy.
They are not making generalisations they are just talking from experience.
This article is as cheap and ignorant as the jerks they are describing. It is a womans way of justifying her own jerkdom.
I am not saying that there are no male jerks out here.....there most certainly are.
I am saying that this is not the answer. It is doublespeak.
This guy writing in this article is as doublespeak as is the woman.
Occasionally I read Cosmopolitan, Elle, and Redbook and take the quizzes to keep abreast of the nonsense and the formats they try to use in passing off as intelligence. I read the occasional romance novel too. This is how I am familiar with the pattern/fingerprint of the language used in this article.
This article does not make good nonsense once you learn to think it through.
Thanks,
Orangetom
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