The "Anonymous" Scientology Protest is an NSA/FBI Fishing Expedition

Originally posted by helatrobus
So I read the rules and it says you aint allowed to defame another member.

So I was just wondering why it's a one way street here? I was surprised that a conspiracy site could harbour such hypocricy.

If this is an important topic to you, please initiate a new thread on that topic... as has been stressed many previous times in this thread.

From this point forward, off-topic posts that do not concern the topic of the thread will be removed. You may call it censorship if you like, but since we've urged members to launch new threads on divergent topics, it's not.

Let's get back to the topic at hand.

Thank you.

Originally posted by undo

Do you dare? Can you report back on wether you think it is a mob or not.

I've watched most of the videos taken of the protests. They seemed benign enough with the exception of following a scientology member to the front door of the building and assailing the individual with a battery of questions and negative comments. It reminded me of paparazzi chasing down a movie star or politician to get the scoop, but with a bit more neighborhood bullies approach: taunting, that kind of thing.

Undo, I think you are referring to an event in LA where the Scientologist started out bullbaiting the crowd. I don't know whether you saw the whole video, but here is the whole event:

www.youtube.com...

Notice several things:
1) She starts bullbaiting the protesters. Instead of insulting her (as she did to them) they chant "don't feed the troll."
2) She KICKS the protesters. This is physical assault. None of the protesters laid a finger on her.

Although perhaps the crowd could have been a little calmer, they were fully within the limits of legality, whereas she was not.


Also, another thing. All of you keep talking about "mob mentality" and how "mobs are bad." You're right, all large groups of people united for a cause are terrible and are mobs. Here are some examples for you:
Gandhi's non-cooperation movements
The 1989 Purple Rain protest organized by Desmond Tutu (Nobel peace prize winner)
The Cape Town Peace March
The Civil Rights Movement
The Ukraine's Orange Revolution

You're totally right! ALL movements of large numbers of people are both violent mobs and never achieve anything!

The idea that Anon is a purely FBI/NSA/etc initiative has a few problems based on the following:

I. Tom Cruise has drawn alot of negative press and attention to Scientology in the mainstream. He did this on at least three different occassions:

--1. He criticized Brooke Shields for taking post partum depression drugs.
--2. He jumped on Oprah's couch and scared her half outta her wits.
--3. He appears to have gotten on realllllllllly bad terms with Steven Spielberg and his wife (forgot her name but she's also a movie star).

There's probably more, but in the minds of bored hackers, this makes him and his org a big target already, usually though just for snide comments. But then, when someone who was familar with the negatives in the org itself noticed the trend, they started posting their experiences, and as human nature would have it, it picked up steam from there. I don't think the FBI or NSA would even need to start this ball rolling as it appears to have been rolling already before the idea of protesting came up.

Of course, this could be completely wrong, but just seems the natural direction these things will take if the situation appears to call for it.
Not that i agree with the direction it's going in, but I'm not convinced it's run by the FBI.

Originally posted by undoBut then, when someone who was familar with the negatives in the org itself noticed the trend, they started posting their experiences, and as human nature would have it, it picked up steam from there.

It actually mostly picked up steam from the Tom Cruise video being removed from Youtube. We'll take our Intarnetz uncensored, thank you very much.

Not that i agree with the direction it's going in, but I'm not convinced it's run by the FBI.

*sigh* There you go again. What direction is that? The direction of peaceful protest against human rights violations? What on earth is wrong with that?

Originally posted by undo
The idea that Anon is a purely FBI/NSA/etc initiative has a few problems based on the following:

This appears to be a popular misconception, based on what can only be categorized as a misread of my original, and follow-up postings.

Let me clarify -- I do not think that the "Anonymous" group is an FBI/NSA initiative. I never did.

My sources tell me that the "Anonymous" group has been "infiltrated" such that subtle messaging and directives of a predetermined nature can be injected into the total fabric of the group mentality. Thereby creating recognizable communications patterns from which connectivity and path analysis can be examined and categorized.

If you examine the history of what the FBI has done under their Counter Intelligence Programs, my proposition becomes much more feasible.

As have I always indicated, history is your key to the present and future.

Originally posted by anonim


*sigh* There you go again. What direction is that? The direction of peaceful protest against human rights violations? What on earth is wrong with that?

Let me try to put it into perspective.
That situation with the lady could've gone many ways.
Had you tried something like that outside some country bumpkin church in the outback of Tennessee, the whole place woulda lit up like the fourth of july. they have guns and they ain't afear'd to use 'em. And although I know at this juncture, that isn't your personal target, the problem is the slippery slope (i've seen example after example where it was argued that having this little bit or that little bit of change would not cause the much larger lurking issue to unfold, only to have that very thing materialize within a few years, as a natural result of the initial idea. slippery slopes do exist.)

I find the entire thing to be a conundrum. It's so initimately woven together, I find it nothing short of supernaturally bizarre. You and Anon may have no such intentions but even now I see examples of people trying to convince the group to be used as a battering ram on various political and social hot potatoes. This could end up very bad for everyone, just so you know.

I see both sides of the issue, however, and frankly, it's a Catch 22 if I ever saw one.

[edit on 28-2-2008 by undo]

It COULD have gone a number of different ways, but the only thing that matters is it DIDN'T.

The Orange Revolution COULD have ended in a sea of blood, but it didn't.
Gandhi's civil disobedience movement COULD have turned violent, but it didn't.

It's important to consider how things can go, since lack of such consideration can make you go down the wrong path. We do, however, consider how things can go, and make a strong committment to keeping this movement PEACEFUL.

Don't judge us by your fears. Judge us by our actions. If you want to help keep us on the path of peaceful protest, we more than welcome your input on enturbulation.org even if you don't lift a finger to do anything else. But at the moment, saying we're heading in a bad direction is completely unfounded.

Anon is nobody's personal army. The fact that people are trying to ask us to do something or other really doesn't have much to do with our actions.

You know, when this story surfaced, I immediately tossed out the idea that this was an effort to take away our internet.

Let a bunch of hackers run around, causing damage: label that activity as terrorism. Boom: internet is shut down.

This is going to happen. The government will most likely orchestrate events like the ANON group to MAKE it happen.

But when I offered this idea, a particular member (who is now banned) jumped on me and claimed there was no way to stop the internet, no way to control it, and that hackers were going to be free forever. He was quite obviously, a computer hacker himself with a big head.

Now keep in mind: there are ALOT of kids who rely on the internet daily with heads just as big. "We are invincible. You can't shut down the net."

It's so important for people like the OP etc. to keep reminding Americans, the internet is all we have left, and by acting like morons and supporting ANON etc. we are just begging for anti-terrorist agencies to shut us down. And they're going to. T

hanks ANON and all the lil hacker fanboys... thanks for nothing.

Originally posted by NewWorldOver
You know, when this story surfaced, I immediately tossed out the idea that this was an effort to take away our internet.

Let a bunch of hackers run around, causing damage: label that activity as terrorism. Boom: internet is shut down.

Mr. Stevens, you really don't know how the Internet works, do you? :V

Anon is nobody's personal army.

Famous last words. Remember you said them.
Some people are expert manipulators. They know how you work. they know group think. They know social trends.

They know the first reaction a scientologist will have to harrassment is that it is proof L. Ron Hubbard was correct in their eyes and that things are getting dangerous. When it seems dangerous, people will make uncharacteristic decisions, even harmful decisions (see Waco Branch Davidians).

When it starts effecting the average scientologist, and not the people who are actually committing the crimes, the only ones who suffer are the average scientologists. This has been true throughout history. The common man has to take the brunt of the bad decisions made by the people in charge. It's wrong headed to blame the common folks for this stuff. But they are the only ones that will be seriously affected by this to begin with. They sincerely believe in scientology,just as much as you seriously believe in Anon.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by helatrobus
So I read the rules and it says you aint allowed to defame another member.

So I was just wondering why it's a one way street here? I was surprised that a conspiracy site could harbour such hypocricy.

If this is an important topic to you, please initiate a new thread on that topic... as has been stressed many previous times in this thread.

From this point forward, off-topic posts that do not concern the topic of the thread will be removed. You may call it censorship if you like, but since we've urged members to launch new threads on divergent topics, it's not.

Let's get back to the topic at hand.

Thank you.

My sentiments exactly.

Mod Note: One Line Post – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 28-2-2008 by GAOTU789]

Originally posted by anonim


Mr. Stevens, you really don't know how the Internet works, do you? :V

Hey, can we have a thread on that topic? I would love to read it.
Cause everything from here gets fed threw Level 3 in some state up the coast here, and I got a suspiciion this means the whole internet is being fed threw some super computer somewhere. If that node went down, and everyone's net had to pass threw it, does it switch to an alternate route or does everyone just go offline suddenly?

[edit on 28-2-2008 by undo]

I agree. (except for the part of the direction it is going in)

As interesting as the last post might be, let's remain on topic here.

If someone wants to start a thread about side issues, then do so, but we need to keep to the subject of this one while we're here.

Well, actually, it's now the next to last post before this one.

[edit on 28-2-2008 by NGC2736]

oops, sorry.

Yes, new thread any Anon folks who know the answer to my question above, could you make a thread on the subject and link it to me in U2U or whatever is allowed?

Originally posted by mister.old.school
My sources tell me that the "Anonymous" group has been "infiltrated" such that subtle messaging and directives of a predetermined nature can be injected into the total fabric of the group mentality. Thereby creating recognizable communications patterns from which connectivity and path analysis can be examined and categorized.

wait, so you are saying that, people are makeing suggestions and tracking how those suggestions are distributed through the group in an effort to build some sort of model that they could conceivably use at a later date?

THAT doesn't sound too impossible.

Originally posted by anonim
Mr. Stevens, you really don't know how the Internet works, do you? :V

Are you the person who was banned? Because this was exactly what he said.

"You don't know how the internet works."

No, apparently I don't. *snip*

Unfortunately, we don't live in that fantasy world. We live in reality. Where the internet requires ISPs, requires hardware, requires backbones and staff to operate , and it requires electricity. Every single one of those things can be denied to us through federal action.

I am sometimes completely ashamed to be a part of this generation because they are so goddamned arrogant and un-educated that they think the internet belongs to them and is invincible. Honestly: ashamed. Because they're going to ruin it for all of us.


Mod Edit:Courtesy is Mandatory. Please Review This Link

[edit on 28-2-2008 by GAOTU789]

Oh, thank you.

So you are saying the FBI is maybe acording to your sources, infiltrating the phenomena so as in better to be able to control it if it needs so in the future.?

If it decides to attack the state for example or is a pecieved threat to US interests?

Like it did with against Martin Luther King?

Oh yes, now i see what you are saying.

Yes that's a possibility.

This entire topic reminds me of DUNE quote, "plans within plans"
Sheesh, if it were anymore complicated, it would take a chess master to unravel it. It astounds the mind how carefully all the events are opening up. Emperor Palpatine would be proud of whoever is orchestrating this entire thing. Yikes.

Originally posted by NewWorldOver

Originally posted by anonim
Mr. Stevens, you really don't know how the Internet works, do you? :V

I am sometimes completely ashamed to be a part of this generation because they are so goddamned arrogant and un-educated that they think the internet belongs to them and is invincible. Honestly: ashamed. Because they're going to ruin it for all of us.

Off topic. Start a thread somewhere else. Can someone back up Bill Aboves advice here please?