B-2 crash near Guam? (Update: Post Crash Pics & Video)

ARTs are a potential problem but I've seen too many bad ARTs to think that they would cause this. There are 4 flight control computers working on a voting system that control the ARTs. If 1 or 2 computers fail (or even 3) the system votes, determines which one's to ignor and continues operation. Very reliable so I don't think there was a computer problem. If I were to render an educated guess, something structural near the GLAS or the GLAS itself (gust load aleviation system) broke causing the aircraft to rapidly pitch up just as the aircraft rotated, air speed was lost, and the aircraft didn't have enough altitude to recover. B-2s have deactivated flaps near the GLAS that are bolted shut. It's possible that one broke free.

So are we saying that all previous news about fire is bogus? I agree that whatever the issue was it caused a uncommanded roll of plane to the right and then proceed to nose down when the pilots finally decided to eject.

As for as I know the GLAS that you mention is directly related to the "beaver tail" on the B-2 correct? That system is in the area highlighted and also seen in the close up correct?





on a side note the bottom image is from a cross section image of the B-2 and to help people understand it would be great if we could find a post a cross section of the airplane and then point out the areas we are questioning. I'll continue to hunt for it but if some one has one on hand let me know and lets get it up on this thread.

[edit on 11-3-2008 by Canada_EH]

Well did more of a search and have found 2 more images that may help the more visual people like myself. The cross section that I found isn't the one from the GLAS system that I posted above but it is a start. Can any of you B-2 crew guys point out or explain which flaps are the one that have now been bolted closed? I highlight them afterwards if you don't have time etc.



Next is what the breakdown is for the flight input controls and where ART and the buses are located etc. Just a nice way to understand the process involved.

Yes the GLAS is the beaver tail. The flaps are on the bottom of the aircraft directly beneath the tile fields and aft decks and inboard of the inboard elevons on the left and right sides. They were in the original design but proved unecessary during flight tests so they were deactivated and bolted shut. You can see them in your diagram where you highlighted the GLAS. They are just outboard and forward of the GLAS in the bottom view. I'm just throwing this out there as a potential cause. I have a great deal of confidence in the reliability of the flight control system especially considering the aircraft had to pass a flight control system check just prior to taxi. A fire caused by engine exhaust is unlikely. I've seen tiles fall off in flight and several hours of composite exposure to engine exhaust only causes limited charing. It's not hot enough to cause ignition of the composite. There are no fuel or hydraulic lines running under the aft decks or tile fields either.

[edit on 11-3-2008 by B2guy]

[edit on 11-3-2008 by B2guy]

[edit on 11-3-2008 by B2guy]

Except we're not talking about a fire caused my engine exhaust. We're just talking about a fire that happened before take off, and caused them to lose control. The aft deck cracking was just thrown out there as a recurring problem that the airframe has been having.

reply to post by B2guy


except those 4 computers > ARTs have 1 resistor and if that fails the whole lot goes.

reply to post by Harlequin


True and has anyone posted where the ART is located in the plane? Would be helpfully/interesting to know when it comes down the tracking the fire. Since they claim a fire warning went off and we have been told that the only fire alarms are located around the engine how does that alarm work if its linked to ART.

Great discussion by all. If the entire FCS went inop due to a resistor or other problem then a crash will be the result. I still think it was a mechanical/structural problem centered around the GLAS and/or deactivated flaps and not a computer problem.

reply to post by Canada_EH



The ARTs are in the trailing edge located nearest the actuators that they control. They are accessed through panels on the lower trailing edge.

[edit on 11-3-2008 by B2guy]

Not sure if these have been posted yet:







[edit on 3/17/08 by FredT]

reply to post by FredT


Great find Fred T.

I saw those yesterday on gearthhacks.com, but I thought that the aircraft had veered to the right, so I figured they were fake.

reply to post by Boone 870


Thanks They are part of a news bit from AWST so the source is pretty reliable. They were taken by a passanger on a comercial flight.

so the failure came right at rotate @ or just after V3 and came down pretty quicly as its still on the runway

Yeah I also had thought it had veered to the right but hey its not the first time I have been wrong. Great pictures Fred. Nice to finally get a shot of the actual site up here on the forum. It seems like other then this the USAF has kept a tight seal on any images being released.

reply to post by waynos


At last some sence lol

The initial reports mistakenly claimed a number of things about the crash, including a fire prior to impact. There was no fire.

reply to post by Zoron


And your sources are better then ours how? Just saying something on the aviation forums with no backing up your statements is never taken well. So if you could please provide them that would be great. Otherwise you'll be treated like anyone else who posts a one liner on these forums.

Originally posted by B2AV8R
reply to post by COOL HAND

 

Cool Hand, if you've been around for a while, you might remember Wil Gildner. He was a Naval Aviator then made a transfer to the AF, and eventually came to the B-2 for one tour. I've lost track of him since then.

He was my Commander at the 325th. Last I heard he was at the Air Attach office in London at the Embassy

i66.photobucket.com...

i66.photobucket.com...

i66.photobucket.com...

i66.photobucket.com...

taken from

refugeforums.com...

a coat of paint and some tyre changes it`ll be fine i bet

a coat of paint and some tyre changes it`ll be fine i bet