Ronald Weinland (nothing yet...)

reply to post by Angus65

Yes, but notice that Jesus said he was going to fulfill the law, not enforce it. What is the law but a set of rules that shows our shortcomings an inability to be like God? Jesus said he was going to fulfill the law. He was going to do what men could not do. Have you broken one commandment? Then you have broken them all. He completed all the requirements of the law. Something none of us are capeable of doing

People like Ron Weinland get tied up in legalism. The very thing that the Pharisees were doing. The very thing that Jesus warned against. Read Acts 15 to see what the apostles decided about keeping every facet of the law.

Originally posted by Angus65

Originally posted by Rumrunner
One is that the sabbath seems to be big with this guy, but one thing he fails to know is that we are NOT under the sabbath, it was a law for the ancient Israelites and Jesus was the end of the law.

Perhaps you have failed to read for content...

Matthew 5:17
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

He was not the end of the Law. As one of my favorite priests, Roman Catholic no less, has always said... In order to be a good Christian, first be a good Jew.

Ok who was the law for?...It was for the ancient Israelites.

Romans 10:4 Christ is the end of the law.

Colossians 2:13-16 13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

I should point out that I am not saying that people should not meet together, I am simply pointing out that we are not under the sabbath.


Meeting together- Hebrews 10:25 Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

And can even be just 2 or 3 people- Matthew 18:20 For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."

Originally posted by dbates
reply to post by Angus65

 

Yes, but notice that Jesus said he was going to fulfill the law, not enforce it. What is the law but a set of rules that shows our shortcomings an inability to be like God? Jesus said he was going to fulfill the law. He was going to do what men could not do. Have you broken one commandment? Then you have broken them all. He completed all the requirements of the law. Something none of us are capeable of doing

People like Ron Weinland get tied up in legalism. The very thing that the Pharisees were doing. The very thing that Jesus warned against. Read Acts 15 to see what the apostles decided about keeping every facet of the law.

Yes, but at the same time, he says, "be ye perfect as I am perfect" and later it says that we are to strive to be Christlike. If we don't obey the laws that Christ did, how are we striving to be like him?

[edit on 28-2-2008 by jnthemyst]

reply to post by dbates


Here again someone places "paul" above Jesus. Even if it is a misunderstanding of pauls words.

Jesus KEPT the sabbath including the 7 annual and the 7th day sabbath. As did all his apostles. Matt 5:17 does cover it, IF you allow youself to see the truth. To "nail the law" to the cross is a tradition of man under a false church.

Even after the end-of-this-age, mankindkeep the sabbath. Rev 22:13,14

13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

And all will be judged "according to their WORKS." Rev 20

11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

If the law is GONE how can they be judged by their works?

reply to post by heliosprime

One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. (Romans 14:5-6)

I think it is a shame that this scripture exists, yet, is ignored by those who insist on one particular day being kept. If your conscience approves Saturday then you are convinced by your conscience that this is the day for you to keep. Yet, you are not at liberty to judge another, whose conscience approves a different day. If one agrees in mind to Saturday and another agrees in mind to Sunday, then the fact is not in the day, but rests in their likeness of mind, in honoring God as their conscience bears witness.

As for being judged according to works , if your thinking is in line with what you have stated regarding the Sabbath, and that is to be understood in relation to the keeping of commandments, let me refresh your mind regarding the works of the flesh:

But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:16-21)

We can keep all the Sabbaths we wish and our inward condition be corrupt. You can take all the commandments as contained in the Torah, paste them to your bathroom mirror, and every morning examine yourself against them, and yet never realize the genuine reflection of yourself and inward condition. Too many today have a form of godliness, a structure, an outline of what they assume it means to please God, but as II Timothy 3:5 states, these have denied the power which changes that corrupt, inward condition. Where does that power come from? The Cross (I Cor 1:18). People have to reach the point in their life where they examine themselves to see if indeed Christ is in them (II Cor 13:5). Only through the Cross of Jesus Christ and the working of God’s Grace by His Spirit within, can our hearts be hardened toward sin. That is the issue. Too many are keeping this, not keeping that, eating this, not eating that, and I have to ask, what does it matter if nothing has changed inside? And remember: good works do not go before, to prepare heaven for the saints, but follow after.











[edit on 29-2-2008 by jdposey]

Originally posted by deenamarie53
Hey....I don't want to blow the guy out of the water....

Being a fellow Christian to Weiland and his following I just don't see this tactic as being "Christ-like". Why attack the guy for announcing the coming of Christ.

Deenamarie53, hi!

Although I do not approve of character assassinations, at times I do believe, when you are observing outright deception taking place by an individual, if there be any amount of light within you, it is needful to place that spotlight on someone and expose them for what they are. To me, what Mr. Weinland is doing is very serious and may be going unnoticed by a vast majority of people.

I wanted to address your question above: "Why attack the guy for announcing the coming of Christ?" How would you, or anyone respond, if I told you, Ronald Weinland could care less if his prophesies failed? You have to understand the ways of a deceptive mind and how it functions.

What do you think the real issue is with Ronald Weinland’s book? I challenge anyone to examine the fruit of his work. What is that fruit? The growth of his church, the Church of God-PKG, which has brought in converts as a result of his book. We may look at these new converts entering a church, but the real issue is, they are coming under a strict doctrine, one of which, once you’ve entered, it is a hard thing (mentally) to free yourself from.

If Paul were writing this, the result would be the epistle to the Galatians and his summation:

Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. (Galatians 5:1)

If anyone would do a word search in the New Testament on “bondage and fear, “ you would quickly recognize what that is tied to, the very doctrine which Ronald Weinland is aiming new converts toward. The very thing which Paul warned his readers about time and time again.

This is the reason I say that Ronald Weinland could care less if what he says in regard to himself and his prophesies fail. Even he said he would admit he was wrong. But even so, the damage has been done, the plan carried out and the church has grown. Do you think these people will walk away so easily? How can they, since they have been persuaded that his church is the one and only true church and outside of that, you are lost.

This is why I am against JUST WAITING to see if these prophecies fail or not. It is what is taking place behind the scenes, while everyone else is looking the other way for the signs, that has me troubled.

At the end of the day, we must all strive to be christ like and keep every law we can. Simply put, man cannot continue in this world if he does not keep the law. Are we to keep fighting wars? killing each other? Mocking each other? Living filthy lives? And the rest of it!

We are not going to survive as a human race if the way the majority are acting carry on the way they are. Especially the greedy world leaders and such.

Either way, we ARE living in the end of days. If you dont think so well u live in denial. Just look around you and all that is happening in the world, never has there been a time of so much troubles.

Even if Ron is wrong, God is still going to carry out his plan and humble mankind and shake the foundations of this earth! READ IT, its in the BIBLE!

God is giving everybody a chance to see who is worthy to enter his kingdom. He is harvesting people of righteous character and spirit. At the end of the day its down to personal choice. If you dont want to live in his kingdom of TRUE prosperity a world with a REAL future where you will be made imortal and live a good life for eternity then you'll choose to respect that and do everything you can to get there.

If youd rather live for the NOW and live in this world where there is NO FUTURE then be it so. And do what you like, sin and be filthy. Youll never experience what it will be like in the New earth. YOUR LOSS!

Originally posted by jdposey

Originally posted by deenamarie53
Hey....I don't want to blow the guy out of the water....

Being a fellow Christian to Weiland and his following I just don't see this tactic as being "Christ-like". Why attack the guy for announcing the coming of Christ.

Deenamarie53, hi!

Although I do not approve of character assassinations, at times I do believe, when you are observing outright deception taking place by an individual, if there be any amount of light within you, it is needful to place that spotlight on someone and expose them for what they are.

Then let it be pointed out that you have 'taught' that the thief on the cross was resurrected and with Jesus in paradise the day they died ('deathbed repentance'). Jesus said the only sign of Him being the messiah was that of Jonah. He would be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights. That ain't paradise partner.

By your belief in that teaching, you are either denying Jesus was the Christ or calling Him a liar.

-Later

p22

reply to post by jdposey


There will be many who are blind and deaf to the truth.

There are many who will call his name (Jesus) and he will deny THEM.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Matt 7:


Sad, so very sad. No amount of scripture nor human words will open YOUR eyes to the truth. For GOD has closed your mind.....



[edit on 1-3-2008 by heliosprime]

Originally posted by TruthSeekers
At the end of the day, we must all strive to be christ like and keep every law we can. Simply put, man cannot continue in this world if he does not keep the law. Are we to keep fighting wars? killing each other? Mocking each other? Living filthy lives? And the rest of it!

Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. (Luke 13:24)

Hi, Truthseekers!
One thing that is evident today, in the Christian world, you find very few, if any, sermons or books, addressing the Judgement of God. This subject has given way to the more popular subjects regarding the Love of God. Walk into a Christian bookstore and search for material dealing with the Judgement of God and it will be a hard find, why? Quite frankly, the subject of God’s Judgement doesn’t sell books: doesn’t bring in the money which the publishers are seeking. Even so, if we are to keep an equal balance of who God is, yes, He is a God of Love, yet, He also is a God who demands Righteousness and who will Judge Righteously, which leads me to your statement above.

You said, “At the end of the day, we must all strive to be Christ like and keep every law we can. Simply put, man cannot continue in this world if he does not keep the law.” I can see by your statement and your use, twice, of the word LAW, where your attention is directed, in relation to arriving at the kingdom.

If a law says, “Don’t Murder,” does that keep anyone from committing murder? If a law says, “Do not commit Adultery,” does that keep anyone from committing adultery? Of course not, and why? It took Paul some time to reach the point, which all of us much reach in this walk, Laws have no power over the flesh to change anyone. If you know the New testament, then you will become aware of the fact that Paul was notorious against those who raised up and said, Keep the Law, and he would simply say, “You, who advise others to keep the law, do you keep the law?,”or, he might be found to say, “These would have you to keep the law and they themselves, do not even keep the law.” I see and have seen these that rise up and boast, ‘Keep the Sabbath, or, “I keep the Sabbath!” Like Paul, I would say, “Why do you advise everyone to keep the Sabbath, when you yourself, do not even keep the Sabbath?” One will retort, ‘I DO keep the Sabbath!” Do you keep it lawfully, following every strict guidance as contained in the law? Of course not, so don’t come judging when the very thing you judge other’s concerning, you are judged as not keeping.

I direct anyone to the scripture I opened with, and will only say, that narrow entrance isn’t wide enough for Faith in Christ and the Law, only Faith in Christ and Him alone will make the entrance, hence, from Faith to Faith and, no more. This is the Righteousness of God, without Law.

reply to post by gnipp gnopp

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. (Luke 23:43)

It seems to me that TODAY is pretty clear in this scripture. Jesus didn't say, "Three days from now, or, when I have done what I need to do, then you will be.."

Who said anything about resurrection? I don't believe I said that, if I was making reference to this scripture, since, there is nothing concerning the resurrection in it to begin with.

reply to post by heliosprime


I think what you will discover, the "iniquity" which is being used here in this scripture has nothing to do with the iniquity that has been instilled within your understanding of what this pertains to.

Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. (Matthew 23:28)

Compare this to the list within II Timothy 3: 1-5 and you will discover that the hypocrisy detailed here is in reference to those who held to a structure of Godliness (law) but were corrupt within.

Once again, it goes back to the reply I made in reference to Truthseekers post, these in II Timothy 3:1-5 lacked the power to change the corrupt nature of their heart while they still held to a form of Godliness. People must realize that law or laws have no power over the flesh. Only the power of God which comes via the cross of Christ and the inward working of that grace by the Spirit of God. No law can do that.

reply to post by jdposey


If the law is passed away, (nailed to the cross) as it is mistakenly said. The why when Jesus returns.........

13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

If there is no law, only grace, then why does Christ say 14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Care to explain this on away??????????????????

reply to post by heliosprime


Study the Apostle Paul very closely, Paul, who had a personal revelation from Jesus Christ, who was caught up unto the third heaven, the same man who wrote Romans 7: 1-25, who struggled with the same issues regarding the law and then notice the transition he made in Romans 8 when he discovered that only by The Law of the Spirit could he have freedom from The Law:

But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

I think the great confusion, is that people are not seeing two distinct laws, the Mosaic Law and The Law of the Spirit. The Holy Spirit will only work within the confines of the Law of The Spirit and not within the structure of the Mosaic Law. The Law of the Spirit flows from the Cross of Christ where the same Power stems from. That is why Paul only gloried in the Cross of Christ and, not the law. This is what we have to ask ourselves, are we under the Law of Moses or, The Law of the Spirit?

reply to post by jdposey


As I suspected, YOU misunderstand the entire context of what Paul was saying. He was saying the traditions of man are done away. It is sad how many try to set "paul" above Christ because it fits their lifestyle and is less of a "hassle" to be faithful. To interpret pauls writting in this way, one must ignore or change 99.9% of the rest of the bible. GOD is consistent, he knows the end while at the begining.

Didn't Paul Do Away With The Holydays?
Many of the seeming contradictions in some of Paul's letters are due to either translation errors, or biased misinterpretation. We will go over two of the arguments that have sprung from these personal interpretations of the scripture that are most used to try to contradict the fact that Christ, His disciples, and Paul all kept the Holydays. The misinterpreted texts are found in the letter to the Colossians and the letter to the Galatians.

Now some people point to Colossians 2:16 for alledged proof that we need not observe the Sabbath, or other holy days, but let us examine it to see what it really teaches us about the early Church's practice regarding God's Appointed Times:

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days" (Colossians 2:16)

" in meat...: or, for eating and drinking

respect: or, part " (footnote for Colossians 2:16 by translators of 1611 KJV)

The KJV translators' own alternate rendering of this verse would be as follows:

"Let no man therefore judge you for eating and drinking, or in part of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days."

The Greek word translated "respect" (or "part" in the KJV footnote) is meros (Strong's Concordance and Dictionary #3313):

meros [mer'-os] from an obsolete but more primary form of meiromai ("to get as a section or allotment") 1) a part 1a) a part due or assigned to one 1b) lot, destiny 2) one of the constituent parts of a whole 2a) in part, partly, in a measure, to some degree, as respects a part, severally, individually 2b) any particular, in regard to this, in this respect

A more precise rendering of this verse, which agrees with most literal translations, would be:

"Do not let anyone then judge you in eating or drinking, or in any particular of a feast, or of the new moon, or of the sabbaths."

Read the entire article...........The "paulisims" are about half way down
www.truthontheweb.org...



[edit on 1-3-2008 by heliosprime]

reply to post by jdposey
[m

Hey there. I didn't mean to affirm my belief in Ron Weiland or his prophesies. However, I have been reading on his website for about a year. I also frequent other prophetic websites for the usual information.

Hmmm. Yes, I hadn't considered the angle of amassing a larger congregation with the hopes of keeping them, despite any failed prophesy.

If this guy isn't who he claims to be he'll be exposed and should merit Righteous Holy wrath. The Lord warned of false prophets and what will become of them.

Anyways, I'm not here to speak for or against Weiland...or other presumed prophets. But I will speak up when they fail.

I certainly appreciate your explaining to me why you want to discuss the issues with falling into a group that wants to control hearts and minds. And your ideas NEED to be shared

Thanks, JD for being on top of spiritual concerns!

reply to post by jdposey


Sorry, when you had posted that I thought you meant the Jesus that died for our sins and was resurrected 3days later. My Bad.

-Later

reply to post by heliosprime


Heliosprime, Thanks for the material you supplied from the Church of God Website!

I am sure many here think that I am unfamiliar with these things, but that is not true. Where you are, I have walked. I have been in ministry which deals very heavily in the things you present to me, but will add, a ministry that was not the Church of God, but a ministry whose purpose was to bring the church back to its early Hebraic roots.

What did I observe? I observed a unique transformation taking place among the partners of that ministry, one which opened my eyes. Let me ask you, "Did Christ come to die upon the cross so that we, who believe in His atonement, should thereafter take upon the outward appearance of Israel (Jews)? Is that what the Spirit of God intended? To take all the gentiles of the world, raised within diverse cultures, and outwardly transform them into the appearance of Israel of old? That is what I began to witness and even a few actually, renounced their faith in Jesus (Jeshua) and converted wholly to Judaism. They completely lost sight of the cross, a tragic thing!

This is why now, you will find me lifting Christ up and taking glory solely in The Cross of Christ and realizing, nothing I do outwardly can compare, if I miss the object of faith from where the very power of God flows. Does that mean it is wrong to participate in the Passover Seder, observe the Sabbath, etc? I have taken part in many of these, I have hosted a Seder for over 300 people in the past on three occasions. So, I am not ignorant of these things. I suppose what I want to stress more than anything regarding these things is that, if one conveys the importance of doing them, then let them make quite sure they carry them out faithfully from beginning to end, not missing one point therein. I am afraid there are many, in their attempt to please God and their faithfulness to Him, who are being distracted from the genuine faithfulness to the Father, which can be summed up below:

And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment (I John 3:22-23)

And this is his commandment,.... Having mentioned the keeping of the commandments of God, the apostle proceeds to show what they are; that they are faith in Christ, and love to one another; which two are reduced to one, because they are inseparable; where the one is, the other is; faith works by love.

reply to post by jdposey



But, with all the fine worlds, and "study" one still can't get away from the closing words in Rev 22

14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

The key words here are "do HIS commandments". This is Jesus speaking. He didn't say do MY commandments. DO HIS (the fathers) commandments.

The commandments, the Sabbath, the annual Sabbaths are a sign of YOUR understanding of the fathers WILL and YOUR compliance with that will. Not an earthly "cop-out" for your convienience.

Today in many ways keeping the real sabbaths is difficult when the whole world is different around you. From an early age most in this generation are taught to "fit-in" be part of the crowd. "Just blend in"........

Jesus didnt' "blend-in" he got back to "basics" and railed against the traditions of man in the sillyness of the Pharasies.


I found these words in some research on another subject but they apply very well in this context..........

Paraphrasing..........
"Freedom in (Jesus) means being released from the oral traditions and practices and customs of men and their made-up commandments."

Thought this was profound enough for this issue...........





[edit on 3-3-2008 by heliosprime]