Police Brutality or Slip and Fall?

reply to post by benign.psychosis



Please explain to me how it is possible for this women to "hit herself" while her hands are handcuffed behind her back? I would LOVE to hear your explanation for what seems to be a physically impossible feat.

OK, my take on this being that I am a CURRENT law enforcement officer and have almost 6 years experiance dealing with all sorts of people and situations. I know some of you dislike my profession and so be it, but until you deal with the same stuff we do, its a little unfair to say we shoulda, woulda, coulda! Try it sometime and you'll understand what I mean.

I watched the tape of this incident (what was recorded) and I have to say up until the officer stopped the tape, he was fine and the woman was treated as she should have been. Now...he stops the tape!! WHAT IN THE WORLD WAS HE THINKING?

-Was she wasted and acting like a complete idiot? YES
-Was there a need to handcuff/restrain her and maybe force her to sit ot lie down? YES
-Was there a reason to ever turn off your only evidence to anything that happened in that room? NO

Obviously this officer wasn't thinking and was wrong with his actions. By turning off the camera he set himself up for what he got. Not to mention she could have easily said he raped her too...then what? Sooooo many possabilities.

Not sure if anyone touched on these points (sorry didn't read all the responces to the thread) but here are a few things to point out.

1. Why no female officer there to handle this? A lot of departments do not have females or enough of them to cover the shifts, soooo the men have to deal with it! It would be great if there was a female on every shift/platoon...trust me!

2. Does she have the right to a phone call at that time? NO...she does not. Do some research and you'll see your telephone call doesn't come until you are in the DETENTION or JAIL phase of your booking. Or if it is an offense that you don't need to see a judge, it's after completion of the booking before you get your phone call.

BOTTOM LINE: Did she deserve her beating...NO....would any resonable person WANT to smack her around for acting like a fool and being an annoying drunk...sure. Like I said I know many hate my profession...but out of all those who hate us, I would guess 99% of you have never or will never deal with the things we do....so before you hate to much, understand the job is tough....and MOST of us do whats right.

reply to post by rcwj75


I wore a shield up until last Summer, but I am no apologist for police brutality by a long shot. I hate the direction law enforcement in this country has turned, and the direction that it is going in. Injustices like we have seen here ARE NOT isolated instances. If you really are a good cop, there are things you have seen that you have to begin to admit to yourself are very wrong. Just because the job is tough, is no excuse for not executing your duties properly and in the public interest.

But with all of that said, I have to agree with much of what you have written here. Before the tape was stopped, I saw nothing out of the ordinary, or any violations of the public trust. You are correct that the woman is not entitled to a phone call whenever she decides.

Obviously this officer wasn't thinking and was wrong with his actions.

That's a bogus line though. The cop most certainly WAS thinking. Thinking of beating the crap out of this woman, and not having it on tape. But I obviously agree that turning the camera off was indeed "wrong."

That's a bogus line though. The cop most certainly WAS thinking.

Not bogus...just my choice of words. Same idea as you though. It is pretty obvious why he turned it off.

As for the job itself...what people are NOT remembering jackinthebox is that society, crime, violence, and the overall mentality of people has changed in this country. It's no longer maybury where cops have time to stop and say hi to folks, or help change a tire, or yell at a kid for skipping school.....

These days we get calls like multiple shots fired, gang shooting, school shooting, stabbing, drug overdose, drug dealers, gang fights, etc etc.... the world has changed and people think law enforcement should be able to stay like it used too....if that is the case...you guys better strap in..because it's going to get alot worse....and if your worried about police reaction more then criminal action....that to me is not a good thing.

reply to post by rcwj75


For me it comes down to the chicken and the egg argument really. But bad cops are worse than your average criminal in my book. I have found empathy for the average criminal, realizing that if they had a chance at a meaningful job and a home, most of these people wouldn't be out doing what they are doing. Then of course there is the rampant ignorance in the ghettos, where people don't even know what a real life even is anymore, after generations of degredation.

Don't misunderstand me, I am not endorsing criminal behavior here, just trying to share my understanding so that it can be changed. Obviously filling up prisons is not the answer, its only fanning the flames.

I can also tell you, that I have seen good kids turn out bad because of one run-in with a bad cop. I have also seen petty criminals turn their lives around, all because a good cop showed them some respect as a person and didn't judge them.

EDIT to add: I'm not willing to take a bullet for empathy though. Understanding someone's situations and motives is does not mean there isn't a job to be done. That much is true.

[edit on 2/23/0808 by jackinthebox]

i always am respectful towards officers because i know they will illegally beat the holy crap out of me (or kill me)

ive had cops threaten my life b4, and all i said was "whats your badge #?" and boom, i got my arse beat for that. lol

i learned my lesson tho. Justice doesnt exist.

so now i just kiss their ass in hopes they dont abuse me.

I didnt get arrested or anything cuz , i didnt do anything wrong lol.
well, cept ask what the cops badge # was when he said he would have his K9 dog kill me if i didnt tell him what he wanted to know.

anyways. this stuff is getting really old.

the funniest part is, that 100% of the american population is NOT going to do anything about it. nope. Nothings gonna change.

and dont give me that crap that because you deal with murderers and rapists all the time you have the right to beat innocent ppl up cuz your frustrated

its pointless tho

all i ask is for citizens and police to respect each other EQUALLY.

but i will say this much tho, if you are 100% respectful and cooperative with the police, 90%+ of the time they will treat you with respect and even let you off the hook easier because of your postive friendly attitude.

but if you mouth off to them? Start praying to god, cuz your about to die . lol

This place is starting to look like communist russia/china.

reply to post by muzzleflash

This place is starting to look like communist russia/china.

Really? Have you ever lived in either places?

Americs is NOTHING like communist China or Russia.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
and dont give me that crap that because you deal with murderers and rapists all the time you have the right to beat innocent ppl up cuz your frustrated

Noone here (I don't think) used that as a defense to beat innocent people! What I used it for was to show the element in which WE as officers deal with daily. Noone other then a cop has ANY clue what its like to deal with a murderer, rapist, drug dealer, gang banger, gang member, crackhead, etc...so don't you think that limits your knowledge on how to deal with these types of folks and the situations they make happen?

I will never support the beating/hitting of someone who doesn't deserve it. It's not our place to be smacking people around...BUT...BIG BUT HERE....if someone does endanger me, my partners, or an innocent bystanderd...you can bet your behind I am going to cloud up and rain hard on their little parade!

all i ask is for citizens and police to respect each other EQUALLY.

Thats what we all want! Wish it could be that way, my job would be sooo much better!

but i will say this much tho, if you are 100% respectful and cooperative with the police, 90%+ of the time they will treat you with respect and even let you off the hook easier because of your postive friendly attitude.

but if you mouth off to them? Start praying to god, cuz your about to die . lol

Isn't that the standard for normal human behavior? Be respectful to someone and they SHOULD be respectful back. That shouldn't be limited to cops and citizens. I have NOT written many tickets because the people I stopped were nice, understood I was doing MY job, and because of it, they got a warning, a thank you, and guess what...NO TICKET!

This place is starting to look like communist russia/china.

I agree with GEL...unless you have LIVED there...this statement is completely mute!

reply to post by goosdawg


Really nice of you, goosdawg, for stopping to help a fellow ATS member!

Starred!

reply to post by rcwj75


rcwj75 didn't write a ticket? Fabulous!

And I thought you were a brutal heathen!

You just earned a star!

Your respect for humanity IS under there somewhere, after all! Way to
go. RESPECT is what it's all about, my good man.

Hearing a cop's point of view interests me very much, as most of my
buddies and i don't care for them/you much, these days. (Sorry; but
honesty is a bit like respect, too though, huh)? So i try to keep my mind
open.

Keep with your calm civility about these topics here on ATS, and it may
help restore my love for the "man" a bit!

Muzzleflash, Jackinthebox and rwj all make some really good points and in a lot of ways I can see all sides of the argument.


For the LEO of ATS: Don't you think that because you do deal with the gangbangers, crackheads, murders, rapist, child molesters etc etc on a daily basis that it has overall changed the way you perceive all citizens when you have an interaction with them while on the job? Don't you naturally assume the worst until the person your dealing with has shown you a sign of what they are about?

For the anti police crowd: Haven't you (we) gotten to a point where we are so distrusting of the police that they have to prove themselves before you (we) cooperate?

In my mind that is where the real problems lie. It works on both ends.

Back to the video, I CAN'T say the cop did everything right before the video went off. Just look at the part where he kinda slams her into the wall while she was being a pain in his arse. There is no real need for that other to than to show some authority and intimidate her and force her into compliance. Was she acting out and being a instigator? Absolutely. You get no argument from me on that point, but that does not give this officer an excuse to give her two black eyes, a broken nose, a cut on her forehead etc etc? That, any way you want to cut it, is excessive force and excessive force is becoming the norm. It is no longer "isolated incidents". It is becoming standard operating procedure. The real problem lies with people who do know their rights and will speak their mind about it. Wrong or not, no officer likes to be told what the law is from a citizen. That is like an insult to the majority of law enforcement.

For both sides of the issue: When will you realize that it is all part of the big picture? Divide and Conquer. Police, although their job is to enforce the law, are really just average citizens themselves when they are not at work. I have known police who chill out with a doobie and pizza, drank a few beers and drove home, etc etc. They are just like a lot of average citizens but they are forced to uphold "The Law". The real problem lies with the "lawmakers" and the biggest part of the problem is citizens who stayed asleep and did not get involved while new laws were being passed. People in general became complacent, apathetic. In the end I think the real truth is that we ALL failed as a civilization. The sad part is to find a solution both sides have to work together, and I do not see that happening at this stage of the game.

reply to post by FRIGHTENER


LOL..thanks frightner....but its true. I am not being paid to hand out tickets and make peoples lives miserable. The miserable part comes in when people KNOWINGLY break the law and then assume they should ALWAYS be cut a break, or ASSUME that they can act out in anger with me and get away with it.

As I stated before...I will cut breaks when and where I can...but some people truly believe that should be for any offense...and sorry but thats not happening. Case in point, today I stopped a guy who did a california stop at a stop sign (meaning he rolled through slowly, never really stopped) and almost caused an accident. When I stopped him and approached him his EXACT first words were..and I quote "This is F------ BS, I got places to go and your A-- has to harrass me like this"

Now mind you, some on ATS would think there was nothing wrong with this...grant you, legally there isn't, he is free to speak his mind...but instead of getting a warning and a have a nice day, he got 2 tickets for a total of $178! RESPECT...your right frightener, it goes both ways...and THANK YOU from a LEO to all of you who understand it, but more importantly give it.

Originally posted by MrWendal
For the LEO of ATS: Don't you think that because you do deal with the gangbangers, crackheads, murders, rapist, child molesters etc etc on a daily basis that it has overall changed the way you perceive all citizens when you have an interaction with them while on the job? Don't you naturally assume the worst until the person your dealing with has shown you a sign of what they are about?

It does change you...there is no denying that. It makes you edgy around ANYONE who gets a little aggressive, whether verbal or obviously physical. Now does it carry over to ALL citizens, for some LEO's I am sure it does...for me it has not. Getting a call to respond to a armed robbery brings out a whole different set of emotions/reactions then a call to a bar fight...atleast for me. You have to be able to seperate past/other persons attitudes and actions to those your about to encounter. It would be unfair for me to treat someone harshly because two hours before some gang banger got lippy or took a punch at me.

One thign this job does do, that helps me deal with the variety of personalites is read people. MrWendal you mentioned about treating everyone the same until that person gives you reason not too. True to an extent. In this line of work NOTHING is routine..and the person you think is nice to deal with is the same person who shoots you or stabs you...so there is always a level of security we must keep. But honestly, you learn attributes of people. You get a "feeling" that allows you to respond accordingly.

When i watch this vid its easy for me to see she is a royal pain in the --- but not a threat. Is she annoying...oh boy yeah...but again no threat. As hard as it is to block her crap out...you just have too.

reply to post by rcwj75


Thanks for the reply, bud, i appreciate it.

I'll have more respect, next time i'm stopped by the poe-leece!

Guess you're busy helping with the tornado damage down there, huh?

Shoot any looters? I'm only kidding...

reply to post by FRIGHTENER


No problem ...And yes the damage around my area enough to keep us quite busy. Lots of trees down and a few houses beat up, but the major problem was vehicle accidents. Luckily noone was seriously injured....

And no...no problems with people trying to run off with plasma tv's and ipods..

reply to post by rcwj75


Excellent! No brutality (in sticking with the post topic), probably because
of respect for the law; which translates to respect for the officers at
hand...YOU & your fellow officers.

Or fear...

I know you're busy, so i'll be brief, just nice to have a repoire w/ya!

reply to post by FRIGHTENER


Correct...no brutality at all. People around here help each other, which in turn helps us, and we can be more effective helping everyone.

And yes...it is nice to be able to debate or build respect with others...so thank you...

reply to post by rcwj75


Absolutely!

Hey- no matter HOW Angela Garbarino got her injuries, do you think
she will win some damages from the police?

(i tried to star you, but it wouldn't let me)

I'm a child of the sixties; blogging is new to me this year, so i have
much to learn about functions & features. but i like it!

reply to post by FRIGHTENER


Oh yeah she will definitly get money. And I have to agree that she does, the policy and actions of the officer just weren't good. That camera should of never been turned off. Not sure how they will settle, but you can bet they will.

As for the star, thanks..just click it and the rest takes care of itself....and the 60's...oh man..you gotta put down the cheech & chong cure all and learn the ways of the ATS...lol....hey as long as the fish don't start talking to you, your good!

reply to post by rcwj75


LOL LOL lol lol lol.......

Very intuitive, and humor, too- luv ya brother American!

I thought she would receive some settlement, too. And big enough to
calm her lawyer into not pushing all the way to trial!

I gotta feed our 3 enormous Red-Bellied Pacu's, in the 55 gal. tank.
(Honestly)!

Clean & Sober for 1 year and 3 days now, YYEEEAAHHH!
small slip, after a family tragedy;
I wrote it as my only thread, you could view it under my profile, if you
want to.