Is Muhammad a Prophet of "the Devil"?

Originally posted by EverUpward
The bible says God made a promise to both lines and that they would constantly fight again each other. Here is my question, to you, and anyone else feel free to answer; Is it possible that christianity and islam have the same exact divine origin and it has been the meddling of man and the influence of non-divine traditions that have really muddled the water for all of us?

I don't think the Bible outright says that they would be constantly fighting each other (although it does have some not-nice things to say about Ishmael), but the scenario that you outlined is exactly what Muslims believe.

[edit on 18-2-2008 by babloyi]

Didnt Christianity come from the line of Israel? (aka Jacob). I could be wrong, but the first "Christines" were practicing Jews of the Old Testamet before they converted.

And looking upon Jesus, I understand what you're saying, but there is a big misconception about his words. He never said he was God in the flesh, he gained that title posthumously. When he did his deeds, he himself prayed to God... so it would be redundant for God in the flesh to pray to himself in Heaven.

As for all Religions, after the prophet dies, it becomes corrupted from twisted words and selfishness. Thats why they separate and form Catholics ad Baptist, Sunni ad Shi'a, Orthodox and Traditional.

I actually think ALL books (Bible, Quran, and Torah) need to be rewritten to fit todays standard. Words lose meaning over time. It's a shame....

Jacob was Isaac's son.

The reason I posit Jesus' divinity wasnt a question of monotheism or tinitarianism except that i will say that all orthodox jews, muslims, and monotheistic christians cannot understand why people have such a hard time understanding what a simple thing it is for christ to have set a constant example of prayer, fasting, holiness. We ourselves are soul and flesh. The difference being that soul of christ was the focal point and the essence of the creator himself. The concept of trinitarianism didnt even come into contemplation until the roman catholic church changed the form or 'concept' of god from one being to three. This is all recorded history so i dont see the merit of arguing about it but i mention it to expand your knowledge set. For example, the bible says that Jesus is the only begotten of the Father(spirit of truth). It also says that the Holy Ghost(the comforter) overshadowed Marry and she conceived. Now how do i take this? Did the Father and Holy Ghost get together and voila --> Jesus? Is the bible contradicting itself? I dont think so. As the bible also says that the Holy Ghost is that 'same spirit of truth' which the Father is described as being. And the following verse should bring it home for you...

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

The mystery he is speaking of is obvious. God was everywhere at all times. So when God in the flesh prayed 'to himself' as people put it why do we attempt to constrain god to our ways of thinking instead of sticking to what the book says.

Having made that last statement let me say this. I adhere to no particular doctrine as most know it. I have read the bible in almost every version, the original torah and talmud, the koran, the hadith and so on. All I am asking is that you form the basis for your beliefs on any or all on what the books say as a whole and do not formulate doctrine based on out of context verses which is exactly what my previous post was about. I think it is funny that most christians who should get this easier due to the teachings of the bible 'Study to show thyself approved' don't. Muslims get it easier i think due to the historical differences of the beliefs. At any rate, i will quit rambling. Anyone got a question to my post, i love to hear it.

Originally posted by Judaz_Escariot
I actually think ALL books (Bible, Quran, and Torah) need to be rewritten to fit todays standard. Words lose meaning over time. It's a shame....

All books put a "spin" nationalistic in nature over the truth of rightiousness. All books say "OUR PEOPLE" are right, or "My People", or "This is and this isn't".

Here's the book of Michael and it is the closest thing to absolute truth you'll get.

God is the original creative force. You need reach out to the original creator to accept being the created child to move on in life. In so doing that you'll realize that you are special and that all other living beings are your kin. You'll treat all beings as you treat yourself and that should be a reflection of the love and grace given to you by your creator.

The End/Begining.

What defines a Christian? What defines a Muslim or Jew? God doesn't look upon man as we see. God looks at men through their hearts. Because you may think I'm rambling my own words, 1 Samuel 16:7 - As the prophet Samuel said, "God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart".

I've also read the books (Bible, Torah, Quran). But to understand the Holy Spirit is to experiece it yourself. The Holy Spirit isnt a Christian thing, its a personal thing because Abraham, Moses, David, Samuel for example (and I suppose Mohammad) were all moved by the Holy Spirit. All you have to do is read the Books of Chronicles and Kings. There are plenty of sections that say they were moved by the spirit.

As for Mary, isnt it possible for the Lord to say "Let it Be" and it is? He could say "Let Mary conceive without knowing a man" and it happens. As with Job, who are we to question his wisdom and power?

As for Timothy... he said God came in the Flesh, but Jesus never said he was God in the Flesh. Jesus cant help the fact that he was given a title after death. Timothy was not one of the 12 Apostles, and they never made that claim either. John the Harbinger told the people to prepare for their "King" and that was the title Jesus had until death.

Timothy was annointed by Paul, another member who never met the Christ. But to ask if the Father and the Holy Spirit got together is sorta ridiculous...

Originally posted by Judaz_Escariot
As for Timothy... he said God came in the Flesh, but Jesus never said he was God in the Flesh...

Are you implying I & II Timothy were both written by Timothy? Those two epistles were written by Paul to Timothy- not by Timothy himself. Not sure if that is what you are referring to but thought I'd point that out. If not, my apologies. I think someone else said the same thing further above in the thread about Timothy being the author and wanted to clarify that he was only the recipient.

There is no doubt that all religions have always had and always will have extremists who kill in the name of god. Right now islam is the flavor of the month. Through out human history man has always used blasphemy as justification for taking the life of a non-believer.

Why does man feel that god needs defending to point of taking ones life?

M

Much Respect. What I was saying about Timothy and Paul was that they never walked with Jesus and its... kinda hard to write about someone you never met, because you have to form your ow opinions. But I'm a Peter ad Paul advocate! They took it to Simon Magus!

Yeah, its unfortunate that all religions have/had extremists. I believe Mohammad was on the right path, but his broter (i think it was Ali) couldnt hold the position... as with Moses and Aaron. *Side note: I hear there are thoughts that Jesus and Peter were the reincarnation of Moses and Aaron? (whatcha think?)

I hope Scientologists don't decide to have a jihad...lol

Originally posted by Judaz_Escariot
Timothy was not one of the 12 Apostles, and they never made that claim either. John the Harbinger told the people to prepare for their "King" and that was the title Jesus had until death.

Well one of the 12 John made this claim,

3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

Thats to be debated. John the Evangelist, John the Apostle, John the author of the Book of Revelation... no one is really sure if they were the same person. Matthew, Mark and Luke were written 30 to 90 years after the death of Christ. John the Apostle wouldve been well in his hundreds were he the same person as John the Author...but it isnt impossible.

Man... I wish someone could invent a time machine!

reply to post by babloyi

Originally posted by EverUpward
The bible says God made a promise to both lines and that they would constantly fight again each other. Here is my question, to you, and anyone else feel free to answer; Is it possible that christianity and islam have the same exact divine origin and it has been the meddling of man and the influence of non-divine traditions that have really muddled the water for all of us?

I don't think the Bible outright says that they would be constantly fighting each other (although it does have some not-nice things to say about Ishmael), but the scenario that you outlined is exactly what Muslims believe.

The Bible does not infer that Issac and Ishmael would be fighting each other. What it said was Ishmael's hand was against every man and that every mans was against him. Ishmael was a fighter and chose to deal with things in that manor. There are many today that use the same method and it causes problems.

In regards to the two lines of faith. The promise was to come through Issac as it was he who received the birthright. Does this mean that the decedents of Ishmael followed a false God...no, they followed the same God as Abraham.

When Moses fled into the desert he ended up in Midian in the house of Jethro who also gave him one of his daughters for a wife. Here you have an Israelite and a decedent of Ishmael marrying. Jethro believed in the same God as Abraham!

So were did the problem occur? Once the Israelites were reintroduced to God during the Exodus they were to take the knowledge to the whole world. However, they horded it for themselves and refused to allow anyone other than a Jew to enter the temple. You could be converted to Judaism but you had to stay in the outer court of the temple. Jesus told them that in vain they worshiped God, following the doctrines of men. For they were not saved nor did they allow anyone else to be saved.

Jesus came, died on the cross, was resurrected and set the record straight. Well the followers of Jesus were to go a spread the "good news" to all of mankind, hummmmmm. Something went wrong somewhere, can we say allot of hording going on. By the time you get to Mohammad, certa 700 AD, Roman Catholicism has already started with the injection of pagan beliefs into Christianity.

Now comes the time for the decedents of Ishmael to get their injection and the rest is history. Remember Jesus was and is a true prophet and a true prophet can not lie. He said " love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, mind, body and soul; and thy neighbor as thyself." Don't be coy and say, who's my neighbor for the whole world is your neighbor.

Both Christianity and Islam have their fanatics. I believe that Mohammad was lied to by the adversary and sent down the wrong path in order to derail any and all decedents of Ishmael from worshiping God. Come on, why would the adversary just pick on the Christians, he wouldn't. He is out to bone everyone.

unfortunately with God there is no gray you are either with him or against him islam has way to many beliefs that go against God so i will throw my hat in with incarnate and say yes islam is born of satan or another terrible demon

reply to post by thestatue


You don't understand, Religion at a totality is "evil" it is the "knowledge" from the tree, in some contexts,

There is no right or wrong, black/white, in religion.

If there are two men in one church there are two men in two diffrent churches.

Each own person has a perspective, an individualistic understanding of deity, of "creator God". That's a beautiful thing.

Many project what they have within themselves unto a "religion". That too is fine. I've said people could make a religion out of a old dog sunning itself on a lawn and be right.

So there is no rightious religion. That's not the point of this thread. The point of this thread is that maybe Muhammad wasn't following after God's will.

That's not to say those that follow the religion are not seeking the will of God.

reply to post by Incarnated


Wow,

where should I start.

There was I minding my own business and thinking about what to eat for breakfast, when wham! I
can't believe the ill informed posts I am reading.

I have often thought about posting on ATS, so here goes...

To start with I am an Islamic Fundamentalist. I truly believe in the fundamentals of Islam. But
before you start typing, please understand what the word "fundamental" means, you can't be a surgeon for example if you don't practice the fundamentals of medicine. I came to Islam of my own free will and I have been rewarded for my obedience.



And what are the fundamentals of Islam?

Shahada - Testifying that there is no God but Allah

Is that you believe in Allah, His last and final Messenger (Muhammad SAW), His Prophets sent to
Mankind, His books (The complete Bible isn't one of them), His Angels, and His decree.

Salah = Prayer (No, no, not just putting your hands together)

One cannot call him/herself a Muslim who doesn't offer Salah. 5 times a day. It's not easy, but then,
is anything that is worth something? Said to be the only difference between a Muslim and
Non-Muslim. You have to humble yourself and bow down to your creator in action not just by saying
'oh lord etc, etc' - this in Islam is referred to as dua - supplication, not prayer - which is Salah

Zakat - Charity

A compulsory 2.5% of your wealth to be paid every year in charity...where and how, the choice is
yours, but it's compulsory unless you do not have the means.

Siyaum - fasting

Not eating or drinking or having sexual intetercourse, controling what you say, doing good to your
friends, family and neighbors from sun up till sundown in the month of Ramadan. Which is good for
your body (scientifically proven) but also helps you to think about the people in the world who are
less fortunate than yourself.

Hajj - Journey to the Sacred house

For those that can afford it, journey to Makkah for pilgrimage, just like the Prophet Abraham did. A
sacred place even before Abraham raised it's foundations. Wearing the simplest of clothes, with no
signs of status or position, with around 3 million others, the largest yearly gathering of peace on the
face of the earth, which will continue until the day of judgment.

====

Allah creates what He wills, and He chooses out of them. The fact that the Middle east was where the
worlds great religions have stemmed from is no co-incidence...actually there is no such thing as
co-incidence, everything in this world happens for a reason, and is already known, and written on the
preserved tablets.

Allah created much that we have no knowledge of. In the oft repeated Sura (chapter) of the Quran, in
the first chapter we read:

In the name of Allah, most gracious, most merciful

All Praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.


This tells us that there is more than one world,

in the first line of the second chapter we read

This is the book where in there is no 'doubt' for those that ward of Evil.

So, before all virtual scholars out there think about interpreting the Quran, think for a moment. Did
you ever read a book in which it states there are no errors in it (e.g. not in syntax, meaning, science,
grammar,truth etc, etc). Well I guess you never did, and you never will. So confident is Allah that you
never will, He even challenges you to. So the challenge is, if you can produce a book like the Quran,
no, ok just a chapter like it, no ok just a verse comparable to it, you can disprove the whole thing.

What are you waiting for, go to it.

Now that's my kinda Creator.

reply to post by Incarnated


I have so much to share with you all about why I became a Muslim, and the things I know, saw and
understand, which is not much, compared to some, but is a great deal compared to some of the
ill-informed posters here, but let me just clarify a few things.

The Prophet Muhammad May Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him, is the final messenger to
mankind. He is the best of human creation. His name means 'eternally praised'. Let me explain, The
name Muhammad is the most widely used name in the world, and it is continually praised, at perhaps
every moment of the day (allowing for different time zones) when the call to prayer is announced, or
someone mentions his name and we say (sallahu alalihi wa sallam) may Allah's peace and blessing be
upon him - so he is eternally praised. Allah fulfilled the meaning of his name.

Now why would God create the world and bestow these blessings on any other than His best?

Anyway...

There are 3 creations:

Malaiika - Angels

Created from heavenly light, in numbers that we cannot imagine. They are servants that are not male
or female but something quite different. They do only what they are ordered and do not eat or sleep.
The greatest in rank is Gibraeel (AS) the Angel responsible for delivering revelation to Allah's
messengers.

All Allah's Messengers are Prophets, but not all Prophets are Messengers, the
difference between a Prophet and a Messenger is a Messenger receives revelation, e.g, Moosa AS (Moses) was a Messenger who receive a revelation, who asked Allah to make his brother Haroon AS (Aaron) a Prophet, and Allah spoke to Moosa directly.

Jinn - Jinn

Created from smokeless fire, also as numerous as humans they can be male and female, can eat and
have offspring. They cannot be seen by humans, although they can appear in different forms. They
can be what some call ghosts (they can take the image of a human). Some can fly or travel great distances in a short time. They can be good or evil just like humans.

An Nas - Mankind

Created from the mud of the earth, this may seem strange to some, but it's not. If you like, our base
building block is this mud, but obviously we are flesh - humans need a balanced diet to live
healthily, we need the minerals of the earth which we can get from the food we eat. So whilst we
were fashioned from this substance, in fact Adam (which means dark in Arabic because of the color of
the mud) was created from the clay of this mud before Allah put the secret of life in him.

So, in the same way Angels base building block was heavenly light, and the Jinns are from smokeless
fire.

Now, to the OP, the devil as you say is one of the Jinn, his name is Iblees. Now, he is not your
ordinary Jinn. he is very smart, and previously had a position where he taught angels. All this ceased
after Allah created Adam (AS) and Iblees refused to bow down to him. Not only because of his
arrogance in that he thought he was superior in his creation, but also as he questioned why Allah
would create a mortal who would cause corruption and spill blood whilst they (meaning himself and the angels) glorify Allah. Refusing an order was enough for him to be put in Hell, but he asked for
respite and it was granted until the day of judgment. He vowed to lead as many of mankind to hell with him, and turn them from the remembrance of Allah and change the creation of Allah. Allah told him that whoever follows him would be with him on the day of judgment, but that he would send Messengers with His revelations to guide mankind.

reply to post by Incarnated


Iblees cannot take the appearance of the Prophet Muhammad. Please read about this man, who if we look at his character, achievement and influence was the greatest person that ever lived (even non-Muslims cannot deny this). I would urge you to learn the truth about him, see his historical account and stop just making wild accusations that are based on what i don't know, but from where the inspiration comes I think I can guess.

Islam is the religion of peace, if you want to refute it, please learn about it and be civil and not just try to defame Islam and Muslims.

When truth is hurled against falsehood, falsehood perishes, for falsehood by it's very nature is bound to perish.

reply to post by Bigwhammy


can u jews ever stop, if not go on, is it judaism or Islam in the world today, answer is right on ur face idiot

Your attack on the Prophet Muhammad is unforgivable.

God has sent him only as a final mercy to mankind, and the best of all His creations.

www.shirazi.org.uk...

His coming was foretold in TORAH, in the PSALMS and in the Gospel of Jesus.

www.geocities.com...

The Almighty God and the angels shower blessings on the Prophet Muhammad ( peace and blessings be upon him).

2:97 Say (O Muhammad, to mankind): Who is an enemy to Gabriel! For he it is who hath revealed (this Scripture) to thy heart by Allah's leave, confirming that which was (revealed) before it, and a guidance and glad tidings to believers;

It is the archangel Gabriel who had brought down the revelation of The Holy Quran, not the DEVIL.

The Devil cannot and will not bear testimony that there is only one God as all of the Holy Prophets have testified.

2:91 And when it is said unto them: Believe in that which Allah hath revealed, they say: We believe in that which was revealed unto us. And they disbelieve in that which cometh after it, though it is the truth confirming that which they possess. Say (unto them, O Muhammad): Why then slew ye the Prophets of Allah aforetime, if ye are (indeed) believers?

2:23 And if ye are in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto Our slave (Muhammad), then produce a sura or the like thereof, and call your witnesses beside Allah if ye are truthful.

2:62 Lo! those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.

2:119 Lo! We have sent thee (O muhammad) with the truth, a bringer of glad tidings and a warner. And thou wilt not be asked about the owners of hell fire.

reply to post by Incarnated


The Peace of God to all that belong to the light,
Dear Readers,

Normally and under other circumstances I must be friend of Incarnated but in this specific thread it is a pitty but I can say openly that he is very but very wrong, he is being an instrument of the Christian & Jewish fundamentalisms that are pushing the West civilization to a secure colision against the Islamic World.

More over I can say that this line of thinking is precisely the one that the AntiChrist is using to prepare all the conditions for the Armageddon.

I can say that this War of the middle east is going to be the begining of the WWIII and not for the will of God but for the opposition that Satan has to the salvation plan of God, trough Christ, that is planned to all the nations.

About Muhammed let me tell you that he is the promise accomplished that God Gave to Ismael and his mother, being he still a child, when both were lost in the Desert after Sarah requested to Abraham to expulse them from his lands.

God, that knew very well that Ismael was the Primogenit of Abraham, even with more right to inherit all the belongs of Abraham than his younger brother Isaac, promised at that moment to the Child that he indeed will be the Patriarch of a Great Nation and that God will be with he and his descendence for ever, protecting and guiding them.

I think it is not Christian to promote or sponsor the hate between the three great Monoteist Religions, and it is even worst to try to push the Christian countries toward a war against the majority of the descendence of Abraham. It is good to recall that Abraham, the father of the faith was a semitic man and moreover an Iraquian one.


It is interesting to mention that S.S the Pope John Paul II, the spiritual leader of the biggest Christian denomination around the world, clearly condemned this war of Iraq to be lack of moral reasons, also he was one of the most important activists against the promotion of hate and confrontation between religions and particularly against the Islam.

If you or any of the readers of this topic likes to know more about this message I suggest you to visit my thread:

Supernova 2007: a Great Beam of Hope in the human future will visit us coming from far a way
www.belowtopsecret.com...

I am a psychic, a messenger of the Light, that is working for the stablishing of the realm of God in the world, you can know more about me chking my profile at:

www.belowtopsecret.com...


Thanks for your atention,

Your friend,

The Angel of lightness



[edit on 6/13/2008 by The angel of light]

Be very careful with this thread it could offened someone who is a bit exteme in their beliefs on their god.

I am not making stuff up either there was some dutch man who drew some comics with muhammad in them and I guess they where making fun at islam, the guy had death threats sent to him.