Questions about Jesus. (Help me, please.)

Typical Fundamentalist response, when you are called on your actions by direct quotations from the Bible,which is your definitive source for daily living and conduct, you obfuscate and try to twist things around so that you can justify your transgression, instead of apologizing to a fellow man who you have wronged and rectifying your actions.Its really charming that you have Jesus in your screen name, and insult people.

[edit on 16-2-2008 by masonica_esoterica]

Originally posted by JesusisTruth

I called him an idiot, not out of hatred but because hes extremely hateful to religious people.. for no reason..

Many times in scripture, even st Paul calls people (thou fool), but its not bad if its not done out of contempt, spite, or malice which I have done either...

The guy was so unsincere and so sure of himself as you can see in his close minded response....

and of course the moderators deleted it, but yet I wonder if he got a warning? Unbelievable.


btw that lady looks like one of the women off the Golden years....

peace.

Dude, just let them be and turn the other cheek. We should be witnesses to people and not to engage them in a personal manner. We should set an example of how is it to be a real follower of our Lord, Jesus Christ. We should argue not according to the world's way but according to patience, humility, wisdom and understanding.

Always remember this Proverbs:

Proverbs 11:12

He who belittles his neighbor lacks sense, but a man of understanding remains silent.

...

I know how is it to be insulted, mocked, offended, scoffed at, humiliated and called all sorts of nasty things for my firm stand on Jesus Christ. It is only human to feel that. But this you should rejoice, just as in the past, our Lord was subjected to such. But He took it with humility, wisdom, compassion, and understanding. Just as He endured, we also must endure.

Therefore, rejoice when you are confronted with such hostility, for it is written:

Matthew 5

11 "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Luke 6

22 Blessed are you when men hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man. 23 "Rejoice in that day and leap for joy, because great is your reward in heaven. For that is how their fathers treated the prophets.

...

Engage them with gentleness, with wisdom and understanding. Perhaps some might listen, repent and be saved as a result.

It is written:

Proverbs 15:1

1 A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.

May God lead your path and protect you always.

what are you talking about, are you blind?

He just insulted the entire christian world, do you not see that?

Calling someone a fool, not out of hatred is in the bible. How many qoutes do I have to dig up for you?

its not typical its the truth.. Go look what that guy said about our faith, billions of people hold dearly to them and have seen miracles..

peace.

sorry that last post was to masonica..

amitheone.. I agree 100%

Im just sick to death of people posting like that in here...

staying silent is a form of a cross to suffer humiliation.. I need to learn that..

thanks.

Originally posted by JesusisTruth

kyuubi, tyou actually are open minded and have a brain..

Thats what I was saying... Its not an opinion, its an arrogant foolish statement. He has no clue if Gods real or not....

I see this all the time, and it makes me sick....

God bless you guys.

I'm happy you feel that way. =] And I thank you for kind words.

But please, all of you; I created this thread for informational purposes. This is NOT the place for heated debates.

This is not the place for people come in and say that God doesn't exist, or that the Bible is fiction. This is not the place for people to say that God is real and that their scripture is absolute truth. Those claims, and any similar, are completely irrelevant and serve no purpose in this discussion.

Please, just stop. To you all who continue with such behavior and in such a place, you are imposing, you are mean, intolerant, or all three. Your thoughts are not wanted here.

[edit on 17-2-2008 by Kyuubi]

reply to post by Kyuubi


You really are not getting much of the tolerance a Christian is supposed to display here are you...?

Now I am a Christian. I try in my life to follow the principles taught by Jesus Christ, who I consider to be my Lord and Savior...

I try and I fail, yet I try each and every day...

To address your OP, my beliefs are simply in line with what the bible says. I do not claim to know everything, or even a large portion of anything. That which I do not know, I accept through faith.

Jesus Christ was the Son of God and He was also the Lord here on earth. This is a concept that I do not fully understand, yet I also accept that to imagine I could understand everything put forth by the Lord, who created the universe, would be the ultimate audacity; so I accept on faith that which I do not understand and that I will come one day to understand it all.

I know that He died for my sins and the sins of us all, whether we choose to believe and accept His salvation or not. His sacrifice was perfect as one would expect from the Son of God, and is not incumbent upon those that will or will not believe. It was done for us and that is enough.

I read the Bible and understand what I can, also accepting that it is written I will not understand it all until the day I meet the Father. I accept that it teaches me enough to live my life as well as I can, in accordance with His wishes. I am not free of sin, far from it, I will not ever be free of sin as long as I abide here on earth. I have accepted the Grace of The Lord Jesus Christ and His offering of Salvation, so I am forgiven of my sins. Those I have committed and those I will.

Now as for all the controversy, I have been called foolish and misguided because of my beliefs, and that is also to be expected as the Bible tells us we will be. As the Bible has prepared me for this, I see no reason to get all heated up about it. After all I have accepted the salvation and my eternity is set for me, it is sad that others have not, but that is also written. Free will is the foundation of belief.

There really is no way to adequately explain the supernatural experience of having the Holy Spirit enter you and help you and guide you through life. Not to a nonbeliever. They must either experience it, or suffer this existence without it. Again, free will demands they have the choice. Sad? yes very, but as it is written, MANY will never see....

Anyway,

That is how I feel and even as foolish as I may be, I seem to get along just fine in the scientific/Police/Forensics community with no contradictions I have encountered so far..

Semper

reply to post by semperfortis


Forgive me for sounding any bit rude, as it is not my intention, or for not understanding completely, if that be the case, but what exactly is your point?

Don't get me wrong, for I understand what you're saying, clearly, but I'm just a bit confused as to how this pertains to what's being, or what should be, discussed. Maybe I'm having trouble putting it all together.

I ask that you not take this the wrong way; this is an honest inquiry. I am young and probably not as intelligent as you are(I saw that you are about 49).

Originally posted by JesusisTruth

what are you talking about, are you blind?

He just insulted the entire christian world, do you not see that?

What are insults but mere words? They went as far as murdering our Teacher... a Christian walks the path of our Lord, walking away and shaking the dust from their feet.

Take a deep breath and leave vengeance to our heavenly Father, who sees all, my friend, and will repay all according to the conditions of their hearts. *hugs*

"Let everything you do, be done in Love" 1 Corinthians 16:14

[edit on 17-2-2008 by ReginaAdonnaAaron]

Originally posted by Kyuubi

Originally posted by JesusisTruth

kyuubi, tyou actually are open minded and have a brain..

Thats what I was saying... Its not an opinion, its an arrogant foolish statement. He has no clue if Gods real or not....

I see this all the time, and it makes me sick....

God bless you guys.

I'm happy you feel that way. =] And I thank you for kind words.

But please, all of you; I created this thread for informational purposes. This is NOT the place for heated debates.

This is not the place for people come in and say that God doesn't exist, or that the Bible is fiction. This is not the place for people to say that God is real and that their scripture is absolute truth. Those claims, and any similar, are completely irrelevant and serve no purpose in this discussion.

Please, just stop. To you all who continue with such behavior and in such a place, you are imposing, you are mean, intolerant, or all three. Your thoughts are not wanted here.

[edit on 17-2-2008 by Kyuubi]

Oh thank you, thank you, thank you Kyuubi for putting in place those posters that came here (trying to) smear Christianity!

They're entitled to their beliefs...even I though I regret their decisions but it's all about free-will.

I thought it was completely inappropriate that they posted here in the first place. Why did they do that? Of course I'm merely being rhetorical with that comment because I know the why.

That kind of behaviour it so mean and uncalled for.

Keep searching for the truth and it will be yours!

Oh, another thought KYuubi....ask anything you'd like and post.... those that have answers for you can answer.

I'm not savvy with (the written) scripture as I have them committed to heart, thus they have no words. But if I can be of any help I'll post whenever.

Don't ever quit.


Peace

Originally posted by Kyuubi

And it has everything to do with sin. The sacrifice of Jesus along with acception and repention is supposed to wash away sin.

Adam and Eve stained the lineage of man kind, thus resulting in the sin of all. Everyone is said to have sin even at birth, in the Bible. Before the Bible, Jews would sacrifice animals as a cleanser of sin. The Rabbi(or whoever) would literally, with his hand, transfer sin from a person onto a lamb(or other animal), then would release it into the wild to get devoured by various beasts. Animals were ideal because they were innocent. They hardly have any sense of desire. They rely purely on instinct and their purpose is survival. Nothing more.

Why was he significant?

You seem have good working knowledge concerning animal sacrifices for the cleasing of sin! That's important here...

Jesus Christ was perfect, blameless, and innocent!

You asked, "Why was he significant?" - God became flesh to become the FINAL sacrifice for ALL sins when nailed to the cross. It can get no more significant than that.

I wish you all the best!!!

reply to post by deenamarie53


Ah, thank YOU! A respectable person, you are, indeed. I agree(as you might already know); those things were unnecessary, innapropriate, whatever you'd like to call it.

Sometimes I wonder why it seems as though people enjoy bashing others' beliefs. I hardly think most people with some amount of intelligence establish unreasonable beliefs or concepts. Everyone deserves consideration, I say.

It means a lot to me, what you say. =] Thank you, once again. I smell a new friend. And I shan't ever give up the search for truth, as neither should anyone.

reply to post by defcon365


I seem to have a "good working knowledge"? Wow, I'm better off than I thought. Thanks!

Everyone is such a help. =]

But I do wonder...WAS Jesus God? Was he another form of God? Is that it? I'm still confused. The Bible reads:

"(Mark 15:34) And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, 'My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?' "

Shouldn't God, in the form of Jesus, be aware of most things? Jesus seemed to be clueless, or at least enough to inquire. If God had a mission on Earth, I should think he would know of it.

The trinity is something I clearly do not understand completely. I have heard many say Jesus was God, and I have heard many say that Jesus was not God. Where might I find clues to these inferences?

Some scholars will translate the Lord's last words as....Father (Abba...familial for papa) to be more a rendering of " Abba, Abba why have you gone so far from Me?"...or turned your back to me. Remember I'm paraphrasing here...K?

As I understand the teachings about God...which can be found in the scripture, God cannot look upon sin. Thus, Jesus in His last moments was anathema, with a capital A (sort of like in the "Scarlett Letter"...a novel)...to His papa.

Jesus has always existed and had never been seperated from the Father. Sort of explains His tremendous grief, wouldn't you think.

Anyways, Jesus couldn't speak well up there on the crucifix because of the downward pull on His diaphragm, making for the confusion of His last words. His gurgled exhalations distorted any words that He spoke....at least this has been propounded by researchers with a medical background.

It would be beneficial for you to take a gander at Aramaic texts that can be found online. I know I was happy to find them. Check their veracity and compare the works of different translators. Let your instincts lead you to stick with the one that ressonates best with you.

Is Jesus God? This is a tough one, but doesn't need to be as divisive as it seems.

Jesus told us...(paraphrased) "When you see me you've seen the Father". Was He speaking in metaphor? and "The Father and I are One". Also, Jesus called Himself the I AM. Now, this way of speaking about yourself was RESERVED for God alone. That is why Jesus (who became The Christ) was so hated by the Jewish priesthood of the time.

Friend, I can only give you my interpretations of who/what Jesus is....is He God? You will have to study lots and lots of research materials to come to your own conclusions.

Allow yourself a happy enthusiasm during your explorations.

Discern ALL spirits both material and immaterial and you'll be safe in your reasoning.


Peace and thank you for allowing me to share!

reply to post by deenamarie53


Hmm...Well, everyone's interpretation should be considered. Thanks for sharing. =]

As for the "When you see me you've seen the Father", we could tie that back to Genesis 1:27:

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and femaled created he them."

And "The Father and I are One" could be interpreted like so:

In a sense, they were of the same kind. Jesus was divine, in flesh. As well, they were both perfect. Their relationship is father and son. I could say me and my father are one, and it could pass as anything not similar to me and him being the same person. Of course, this probably isn't the case, as it sounds pretty ridiculous. Hahaha. But my point is that such a statement is ambiguous.

Also, Jesus called Himself the I AM. Now, this way of speaking about yourself was RESERVED for God alone.

Please, explain a little more, as I do not understand as much as I'd like to.

But then, if God transferred over the sins of mankind onto Jesus, that would mean that if Jesus was God, he held sin, which is impossible, correct? I am only speculating. I'll go into further research.

Again, thank you for your thoughts and words! Always a help. =]

Kyuubi,

Thank you for such a sweet question!

"Why was Jesus perfect and innocent enough to fit the role of the ultimate sacrifice?"

It is actually a very large question, with a potential of many books being written on this one subject alone! I will do what i am capable of in answering in a mere 4,000 words.

In scriptures of the Bible, it states that He has walked every path and is capable of understanding us all. This is not an analogy. This is not a stretch of the imagination. He has walked literally every path. He did so in a previous lifetime, during his time of development to Godhood. And does so every time He/She returns to earth, during physical development and growth in order to come of age in which He/She can teach and move forward the work. Yes, He does return with His spouse. Each time He has actually.

In similitude of His process, as He teaches us to walk the path of Gods, the "sacrifice" was a requirement for our understanding, out of Love for All, and the desire for the fulfillment of each individually created soul that has the greatest of purpose in the kingdom.

All things are perfect, and all things are innocent because all things reside in becoming (with the exception of the higher order that maintains all of existence). In this understanding, our actions are a reflection of our level of understanding. If we do not reside in the fullness of understanding, in which human life does not because it is rising to attainment, how would be that human life could be held responsible for something greater than what it understands? "Father, that isn't completely clear. please place such in easy language."

"Yes Love. All act according to their level of becoming. All becoming is perfect in it's understanding. Thus all are perfect and innocent."

"Thank You! "

"You are welcome Love. "

Now the man whom walked the earth before named Jesus held the level of understanding according to that which He is. A God. And in accordance because the highest Level of attainment is pure Love, because of pure Love he was capable of offering an action to which would benefit all in becoming. And the benefit itself is far different than that which earthly understanding has portrayed for centuries. As if you will notice, the language and tone used to describe the offering by most all of religious paradigms, is one of fear, one of blame, one in which makes people guilty for living. One in which holds people back from their potential, when really His offering was one to free us from ourselves, from our own self imposed and world imposed limitations.

So, it is not because of perfection or innocence, it is because He is pure Love.



Much much more could be said. i think however this is a great start.

Love Always,
Laon

reply to post by Kyuubi


Hiya....

Consider the trinitarian view of God as 3 MANIFESTATIONS....one person with 3 distinct ways of sharing Himself. Three different ways of being.

Compare this with who YOU are; you're not just 1.) a body with a physical reality but also 2.)spiritual as well as 3.)mind for reasoning (your intellectual abilities Id, ego).

Maybe that explains why God said in Genesis "Let us make man in our likeness". Who the heck is this us? Perhaps he was talking with Himself...Jesus=the Logos as well as to The Paraclete (the Holy spirit). God was also speaking in the presence of His angels.

I know my explanations are unpolished but that's me...pretty much unadorned.

You could do away with the view of God manifesting as the Trinity aka: The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit and still trust in The Creator. It's just that it helps me understand how it is He provides seperate ways of acting on and through creation.

There's so much more, eh? Another source for research could be Lambert Dolphin's website. Try a google search.


Peace

reply to post by JesusisTruth


no offense or conflict intended, but you really have to learn that just because it is in the bible doest mean its true or ok. even if everything jesus said was true the bible we have today is probably just a pale imitation of what was actually said.


anyway, people keep saying jesus was free of sin after his baptism, that is the commonly help view is it not? but am i the only one who remembers that little part in the bible were jesus completely freaks out in the temple and starts smashing stuff? i am not saying it was unjustified but i don't think it was pure or sin free. let me know what you think on this.

reply to post by Kyuubi


Ah....God and sin.

God DOES no sin but He does contain ALL things created and uncreated. God is all and nothing....beyond time or any reckoning of time. Time being created for the human experience.

When light was created darkness was also brought into being. It's a Zen thing, IMO. Light and darkness are equal while opposite...much like the analogy between good and bad. In vs. out....man/woman and so forth. Everyting has a purpose to be experienced. A one-sided coin isn't practicable.

So God brought all things into being (including Time as we know it); and everything that IS we perceive through physical eyes as good or bad. Our perceptions in the realm of flesh colors everything we experience. And our experiences are very real with real consequences.


God crucified as Jesus:

God does no sin nor does he lie or break covenants. He is ALL love and all things loving. Jesus as our redeemer "took ON our sins" as the sin offering. For example; the Levites during the temple times took two sacrificial offerings before the altar as restitution for the entire body of believers. The scapeGoat....sent into the dessert was one. The other was a perfect, unblemished lamb which was slaughtered and it's blood burned as pennance. This was The covenant of Old Testament times. The Levitical priest didn't turn the lamb into anything other than a lamb. The spirit of sin was imbued upon it by his capacity as high priest.

Jesus is the sacrifice for the New Teatament era....

Jesus knew no sin, he was perfect. Fully human fully divine and He was MADE sin by the Father as an offering to himself on our behalf. One story goes that God, having created Adam and Eve placed them in the Garden with the Serpent. He loved them yet knew they were bound to fall prey to disobedience at the urging of the Serpent. Pretty much like the Hebrews would do; and further along in history like the rest of mankind failed, and is failing.

Honestly, I feel like what's going on....Life, is one grand cosmic design that only God understands! A grand drama, if you will.

I have a wee mind and I'm sharing as best I can. I really encourage you to get online with real talent and see what they have to say. It truly helps to hear someone put into words what we ourselves only "feel" because of a lack of a solid theological background/education and the accompaning vocabulary.

Here's another source for ya. Try Lambert Dolphin's website.
Good luck and happy hunting!

reply to post by superevoman


Hi there! I know....and I appreciate your input.

I guess it all depends on what you want to believe and have faith in. For example; I trust and have faith in the textbooks that college XYZ provides me in order to study in preparation for the professors exams. Of course, I trust the professor to be fair in his assesment of my test taking skills, giving me the appropriate score.

It's kind of fruitless to take the course without some amount of faith and trust.

I think that's what we're doing here. Or not....any suggestions?

Oh, I almost forgot. Jesus "freaking out"....I have a BIG smile on my face when I visualize this. You brought up my favorite scene from scripture. Yes, Jesus was fookin' freakin'-out in the temple....but only once! Seriously, He was righteously indignant at the affront being committed in His Father's house. I guess you understand what was happening in the temple that angered Him so?

Sort of what is going on in His Father's House nowadays!

Peace



[edit on 18-2-2008 by deenamarie53]

reply to post by michaelsannie


What an interesting perspective.

I just think God should've known what was happening, and why. Considering Mark 15:34, it seems as though Jesus didn't immediately understand his sacrifice. He had been obediently following his father throughout his entirel life and it all lead up to that point where God seemingly betrayed him.

In scriptures of the Bible, it states that He has walked every path and is capable of understanding us all. This is not an analogy. This is not a stretch of the imagination. He has walked literally every path. He did so in a previous lifetime, during his time of development to Godhood.

Please, tell me more! What is this development of Godhood you speak of? Are you saying that God had once lived on Earth, like we do?

I began to think about your words. I always thought God existed only in heaven, as God, in his perfect realm. To walk every path means to live as a human being; to live in a spontaneous world; to live through happiness and sadness. Has God really been through all of that, as we do, every day?

reply to post by deenamarie53


I think I'm beginning to understand more. And you're right, it does help to hear someone put into words what one can seemingly not. Whenever you hear what pertains to you almost perfectly, you wish you had been the one to come up with it. Haha.

As for getting into discussions with "real talent"(if that's what you meant), I doubt it's for me, at the moment. I have only recently embarked on the quest. I'm young and inexperienced, although I'm confident in my development.

But if you feel like life is one cosmic design understood only by God, check out the new thread Cybrseer created.

Can mankind achieve omniscience?

So, now that I've got a decent understanding of why Jesus was the perfect sacrifice, I ask:

Why did the Jews kill him? Did they know he was the ultimate sacrifice? The scapegoat or the lamb? Unfortunately, I don't quite know or understand why they did what they did.