Questions about Jesus. (Help me, please.)

Jesus was, in a sense, the "ultimate sacrifice" for man kind, correct? The sacrifice that would wash away the sins of man kind.

Why was he the ultimate sacrifice?

Because he was perfect and innocent, yes? Naturally born of and clean of sin?

My main question is this:

Why was Jesus perfect and innocent enough to fit the role of the ultimate sacrifice?

___________________________________________________

I'm not trying to start a debate. I would just like to openly inquire, so that I might find answers I have not yet thought of or known about.

Yes, I'm pretty sure I know the answers to these questions, but mostly out of speculation and small amounts of scriptural research.

Please to all and thanks to all willing to help.

*EDIT*

I would just like to make one thing clear:

I am not a Christian. I am agnostic.

I'm speaking under no assumption of truth. As far as my inquiry goes, the same concept can be applied to asking why the Big Bad Wolf huff and puffed.

I'm just trying to learn about Christianity, as it is a claim of truth and it deserves some amount of consideration. I'm not close-minded.

[edit on 16-2-2008 by Kyuubi]

When John the Baptist asked Jesus Christ why He had to humble Himself as a man, our Lord responded: "Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness" (Matthew 3:15). If Jesus Christ is the Son of God, why did He have to die? Two apostles asked the same question on their way to Emmaus, days after Jesus died near Jerusalem (Luke 24:13-35). They were hoping that Jesus was the one who was going to redeem Israel until He died. Jesus, who had recently resurrected from the dead, confronted them and said: "Did not the Christ have to suffer these things and then enter His glory" (Luke 24:26)?

Jesus Christ, the Son of God, became a man, to save us from the sin that entered the world through Adam. "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned" (Romans 5:12).

"Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous" (Romans 5:18-19).

Why did Jesus have to be a man? The Son of God became a man to taste death for everyone, destroy the power of death, become a merciful and faithful high priest, and atone man's sins. "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because He suffered death, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone" (Hebrews 2:9).

"Since the children have flesh and blood, He too shared in their humanity so that by His death He might destroy Him who holds the power of death - that is, the devil - and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death" (Hebrews 2:14-15).

There you are.
Read carefully It may answer your question(s)
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Nobody was sacrificed for anything. No God, No Son, No nothing. Just a book that has been revised more times than you could imagine. One person after another telling a fable as they believe it to be.
Bow down to me and you will have everlasting life. If not I will send you to a place where the tortures will be more than your mind could ever imagine.
Oh alright, lets follow this being without question. Really sounds like something I would want telling me what to think and feel. Give me a freakin break!

Originally posted by Kyuubi
Jesus was, in a sense, the "ultimate sacrifice" for man kind, correct? The sacrifice that would wash away the sins of man kind.

Why was he the ultimate sacrifice?

Because he was perfect and innocent, yes? Naturally born of and clean of sin?

No. Remember in the bible it says that all born of a woman are born of sin.
Jesus repented and was baptized at the Jordan, by John the Baptist. So after that he was PURIFIED.

But he wasn't different than any of us as far as 'sin' is concerned - sin is selfishness. He overcame that and in so doing, overcame death, too.

Why was Jesus perfect and innocent enough to fit the role of the ultimate sacrifice?

His perfection came from his willingness to give up ALL that he was for the sake of ALL of US.

Innocent of the crime the Pharisees crucified him for - and innocent of guile (deceit/lying).

But a human being just the same.

reply to post by Kyuubi



It's really weird. He was a man but he was also God. I think he gave up the right to have all the power of God to show us how to live. So he suffered as a human like we all suffer. The Law of the OT proved to man that he could not keep God's standard. The Law of the OT demanded blood sacrifice for sin.

The Christian belief can be summed up in a few phrases;

1. Jesus was absolutely sinless
2. we are born sinners [Ro 5:12]
3. Jesus allowed himself to be killed to redeem the born sinners.

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Originally posted by JesusisTruth
Temelucus, your a close minded idiot,

...this is a chorus you repeat to anyone who disagrees with you, but never with anyone who shares your viewpoint.

and seriously, im getting tired of idiots being allowed on this forum...

by your definition, an idiot is anyone who doesn't share your viewpoint...this wouldn't be much of a forum if everyone agreed with each other.

you dont know if Gods real or not, but you see your blaspheming everything

you don't know if Baal exists or not, but you regularly worship the rival god Yahweh...and you don't know if that god exists either.

you dont understand, so just because you dont understand hell, your blaspheming it and God you (GOOF) ball.

or maybe there is quite the understanding there...oh, wait, you only think that people who buy into the belief system can understand, i forgot about that.



anyway, to the original post

the big J is considered the penultimate sacrifice more than the ultimate one
the sacrifice of Jesus washed away sin but still requires the sacrifice of a human to submit to Jesus.

and said being was "perfect" because...well...the book says so i guess.
he was still a being capable of human flaw, as we can see with his meltdown in the temple with the money changers and his fear to the point where he was so afraid that he sweat blood (this is actually something that can happen to people, not just a religious story) and begged his father to give someone else the duty

Originally posted by Kyuubi

Why was Jesus perfect and innocent enough to fit the role of the ultimate sacrifice?

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"..God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh (Romans 8:3)

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. (II Corinthinas 5:21)

What does it mean: Likeness of sinful Flesh? He was not like you and I. What made Jesus sinless? He had the Nature of His Father, God. God is sinless and desires no sin. That is the nature Jesus had. Jesus was made from the sinful flesh of a woman, Mary. His mother had sinful flesh but His father's nature had no sin. That is how Jesus was made in the "likeness" of sinful flesh and why He knew no sin. That is what made Him a spotless and perfect sacrifice for sin.

Now, someone will say that, "I am shocked! You just said Mary was sinful!" Let me just put it this way, Mary was chosen above all other women, yes, but she too needed a savior. There are some who believe Mary was "sinless." If this were true, then Mary could have gone to the cross instead of Jesus.


[edit on 16-2-2008 by jdposey]

Well thank you Mr. Supreme Being follower idiot. I have a right to my opinion just as much as the next person. I also see that some people here are allowed to insult and get away with it. What a great place.

Why was Jesus perfect and innocent enough to fit the role of the ultimate sacrifice?

I'm not sure that he was. Right place, right time. Maybe. It's just an interpretation of events.

Was J C really the ultimate sacrifice?

IMO the ultimate sacrifice a person can make is to give their life as the act of saving another. Jesus did not 'directly' do that. I don't think someone has to be perfect or innocent to make the ultimate sacrifice. Many things happen in the heat of the moment, people do things they wouldn't normally do. Jesus was aware that his teachings were against the laws of the day, but he continued with his agenda and allowed himself to be taken anyway. A martyr or a crazed deluded fool?

MonKey

This thread made me wonder how exactly sacrifice is defined (in the dictionary).

• The act of offering something to a deity in propitiation or homage, especially the ritual slaughter of an animal or a person.
  
• Forfeiture of something highly valued for the sake of one considered to have a greater value or claim.
  
• Relinquishment of something at less than its presumed value.

So....what does ultimate mean?

• Being last in a series, process, or progression.
  
• Fundamental; elemental: an ultimate truth.
  
• Of the greatest possible size or significance; maximum; utmost; extreme.
  
• Being most distant or remote; farthest.
  
• Eventual.

It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with 'sin' at all.

Originally posted by Kyuubi
Jesus was, in a sense, the "ultimate sacrifice" for man kind, correct? The sacrifice that would wash away the sins of man kind.

Why was he the ultimate sacrifice?

Because he was perfect and innocent, yes? Naturally born of and clean of sin?

My main question is this:

Why was Jesus perfect and innocent enough to fit the role of the ultimate sacrifice?

This article will accurately and truthfully answer your question.

Who Is Jesus Christ?

Originally posted by queenannie38
This thread made me wonder how exactly sacrifice is defined (in the dictionary).

• The act of offering something to a deity in propitiation or homage, especially the ritual slaughter of an animal or a person.
  
• Forfeiture of something highly valued for the sake of one considered to have a greater value or claim.
  
• Relinquishment of something at less than its presumed value.

So....what does ultimate mean?

• Being last in a series, process, or progression.
  
• Fundamental; elemental: an ultimate truth.
  
• Of the greatest possible size or significance; maximum; utmost; extreme.
  
• Being most distant or remote; farthest.
  
• Eventual.

It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with 'sin' at all.

Utlimate:

• Of the greatest possible size or significance; maximum; utmost; extreme.

This definition fits the case. Jesus was significant. There had to have been a reason for his significance. Otherwise, God could have sacrificed any other human being. That idea does not fit the rest of the Bible.

And it has everything to do with sin. The sacrifice of Jesus along with acception and repention is supposed to wash away sin.

Adam and Eve stained the lineage of man kind, thus resulting in the sin of all. Everyone is said to have sin even at birth, in the Bible. Before the Bible, Jews would sacrifice animals as a cleanser of sin. The Rabbi(or whoever) would literally, with his hand, transfer sin from a person onto a lamb(or other animal), then would release it into the wild to get devoured by various beasts. Animals were ideal because they were innocent. They hardly have any sense of desire. They rely purely on instinct and their purpose is survival. Nothing more.

Jesus was supposed to provide for a more improved method of cleansing sin.

Why was he significant?

reply to post by TEMELUCHUS


While everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I did not creat this thread for people to come in and say that Christianity is a load of poo. This is not the place for criticism. I just want to learn more about the story of the Bible.

To all others, thank you very much. So far, you have all been a great help and I really appreciate it. =]

kyuubi, tyou actually are open minded and have a brain..

Thats what I was saying... Its not an opinion, its an arrogant foolish statement. He has no clue if Gods real or not....

I see this all the time, and it makes me sick....

God bless you guys.

YIKES!

For every sort of beast and bird and every living thing on earth and in the sea has been controlled by man and is under his authority;

But the tongue may not be controlled by man; it is an unresting evil, it is full of the poison of death.

With it we give praise to our Lord and Father; and with it we put a curse on men who are made in God's image.

Out of the same mouth comes blessing and cursing. My brothers, it is not right for these things to be so.

James 3:7-10

Temel

" mr supreme being follower idiot "

" I have a right to my opinion "

(opinion) is not always truth, but you see what youve done is turned your (opnion) into a close minded hateful statement from someone who doesnt know whats truth or not, you dont know if Gods real or not...


You have no clue why souls follow God nor the miracles they have seen...

peace.

There have been many Jesus' through out history. Each with their own role to play [all the world is a stage]. In each was to be found a sinful nature which is the burden of the cross. Be blessed in knowing that none of you have to endure that shade of agony peculiar to the Christ.

Woe be to them which entertain doubt for their eyes will not see truth neither their souls find rest. Imagine for a moment being given the understanding of the Almighty himself. Watching intently as a child, as your entire identity is vaporized. The world crumbling around you as you vainly grasp for the comfort it once brought. Such is the burden of the cross which is a battle of mind.

know then this, their can be no defeat - no surrender NO DOUBT! for consideration of such are as division and the very antithesis of GOD.

We will win.


Blessing s to you all.

[edit on 16-2-2008 by Wandering_Star]

Originally posted by JesusisTruth

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Matthew 5:22 (New King James Version)

22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.

Apparantly your missed a few pages and lessons the last time that you read your Bible.

I called him an idiot, not out of hatred but because hes extremely hateful to religious people.. for no reason..

Many times in scripture, even st Paul calls people (thou fool), but its not bad if its not done out of contempt, spite, or malice which I have done either...

The guy was so unsincere and so sure of himself as you can see in his close minded response....

and of course the moderators deleted it, but yet I wonder if he got a warning? Unbelievable.


btw that lady looks like one of the women off the Golden years....

peace.