If Bob Lazar is a complete fraud then how did he know when the craft where test flown ?

I hope this is a joke, could a mod please confirm Mr Lear was banned for supporting Billy Meier case ?.

I never understood why people wrote off Bob Lazar because he couldnt remember some names of college professors.

I graduated in May of 2001, just shy of 7 years ago and honestly I can only recall one professor's name. Give me a few more years and I wont remember the one either.

I personally believe Bob Lazar's story. Not being able to find his name on some college registration file isnt proof of deception. Its merely lack of proof but its easy to believe that a govt agency can wipe clean all records you existed if they so desired.

I believe he worked at Area 51. I believe he worked on back engineering alien craft. I believe he took friends to witness the test flights. And finally, I believe he went public to save his life.

Sometimes I think people look so hard to find a crack in a story that they find one whether its there or not

I'll jump in to this thread and ask this: Where can i find the proof of BL and JL's experiences at this sighting? Did they film or photograph any thing at all? Where there many other people there? Where is this information.

reply to post by helium3


He is gone, it is true. Have you not noticed the John Lear forum folder is gone?

Originally posted by tep200377
I'll jump in to this thread and ask this: Where can i find the proof of BL and JL's experiences at this sighting? Did they film or photograph any thing at all? Where there many other people there? Where is this information.

Yep there was photos and flim taken, i know Lear and Knapp both have there own footage. But sadly i think John Lear was banned for what eva reason.

reply to post by helium3


The ATS line on John Lear's absence is here

You can find John Lear's side of the story here:

www.thelivingmoon.com...

A quick summary: a row between Lear and his opponents over the Billy Meier stories got out of hand. Lear got upset at the row being monitored. I must say I don't see anything particularly unreasonable in the way he was treated by anyone, but obviously he felt pretty sore about it.

However, I don't think he ever said (from what I've seen) that he would "never post on ATS again". As far as I know, he's currently blocked from doing so, but openly states he still visits every day - and all his other member privileges are still enabled.

This thread about egos on ATS would seem to me to be fairly pertinent...

LW

Originally posted by sarentack
Well according to John Lear when interviewed by Project Camelot, he goes into some pretty good detail about Lazar taking them to a backroad near the test sights on a Wednesday I think it was where they saw this, Lear even said at one point security guards went out where they were and Lazar ran off into the desert with a gun and said he would be back once they left, its like they are after Lazar or something or Lazar thinks they are after him, if Lazar didnt have any contact with John Lear, he probably wouldnt even be credible in anyway.

I suggest people watch the John Lear interview to from Project Camelot.

He ran off into the desert because he didn't want to be compromised and lose his job at S4.According to Lear on C2C anyway.

Originally posted by admriker444
I never understood why people wrote off Bob Lazar because he couldnt remember some names of college professors.

Dude, I am 45 and can still remember the names of grade school teachers and my memory is terrible.

Not only does he have a problem remembering professors but it would seem that not one professor or student has ever come forward to support Lazar's claimed education.

You're telling me that he didn't make one friend in college? That he didn't provide one memory from anyone?

As for knowing about flight plans, lots of people were going out to groom lake every night to look for UFO's. In other words, anyone with just a bit of logic could observe UFO's one night, come back the next night and see them again, look at their watch and think: hmmm, I wonder if I come back tomorrow night at this time if I'll see.....I think even the dimmest of bulbs could detect a pattern here.

I have made these points before and seems they were selectively ignored.

It's difficult to pin down the situation with regard to Bob Lazar, but one thing that has always given him some aspect of credibility is that his story never changed in all the years he's recounted it.

However on a recent UFO related show on History Channel (or Discovery or Travel channel) he essentially told an embellishment that he had not described in the past.

To paraphrase, he claimed that 'everything was connected to everything (in the saucer) and that no energy was wasted - it was all funneled back into some other function.

Now, it's clear that he's always maintained that the saucer and propulsion, besides utilizing a gravity lens and three focusers was essentially a 'black box'. But here he's saying they somehow were able to analyze the engine's efficiency.

My contention is that this is not possible using Earth technology. In fact the statement that 'everything is connected to everything else' is nonsensical.

So, having changed his story and embellished (and according to John Lear, he frequently embellished at various points) in a big way, I'd have to say that I now consider his tale a hoax, though certain parts are probably true, just not the parts about alien technology.

This thread isn't about John Lear posting on ATS or not.

Please Stay on Topic

Thanks,

How hard is it to go out on any given night to the rear of a base that does clandestine test flights of various craft and NOT see lights in the sky, lol.

I find it impossible, totally impossible to even entertain the idea that groups of people were going to see captured UFO technology go on test flights and there is no video ALL OVER THE PLACE about it. Come on folks, exercise a little common sense here. Not like it would have been a random chance sighting. The people going to see this were people ACTIVELY INVOLVED IN THE UFO COMMUNITY, so you would expect , if this was legit, they would have had the presence of mind over a normal person to document it in a way that is hard to dispute and then Johnny Appleseed the evidence. Duh.

I want to see video of lights in the sky doing things that match what all the eager-believer witnesses claim they do.

The fact that there is not public video of this stuff ALL OVER THE NET indicates something, does it not?

And when we do get video of this BUNK, rest assured it will be nothing but semi-stationary lights in the sky doing NOTHING out of the ordinary and of course, not living up to the attention seeking witnesses claims.

After weighing the evidence, you simply have to want to believe enough to ignore the facts in order to entertain this fantasy tale. Folks will make up any excuse as to why they believe this, without actually really understanding things. It's sad, really, but serves as another example as to why Ufology will NEVER be taken seriously, and the thing they want most, "disclosure" will not happen until the community can police their own to the point where the mainstream media can shed light on the subject without being laughed at by normal people.

[edit on 15-2-2008 by IgnoreTheFacts]

[edit on 15-2-2008 by IgnoreTheFacts]

Before hobby craft model 'UFOs' became common, one of the -most- compelling sightings was slow moving craft with lights that were doing a 'dance'. Very non-typical of any terrestrial aircraft.

Turned out to be an advertising blimp with a belted ad repeating around the middle.

According to the witnesses, they had to get very close to it even though it wasn't at great altitude to discern exactly what it was.

Now that you can buy and fly RPV ufos, all bets are off, imo.

As far as the Lazar case, I can see the base ops putting up a display just for him, knowing he was there all the time.

reply to post by Badge01


I wouldn't rule out Lazar being an insider and knowing the schedule for flare drills. That would furthermore go to bolstering claims of him being a disinformation agent.

reply to post by chromatico


Good point, but none the less, the core of Lazar's commentary about the exotic propulsion and Element-115 is bogus, imo.

Make no mistake, his story and the graphics and 'infotainment' on his defunct web site is brilliant.

Have you seen the youtube where someone asks Edward Teller about Lazar and he says 'I will make no comment about him'.

reply to post by Badge01


False information, especially outrageously false information, is the hallmark of the disinformant. I simply do not believe that Lazar would have concocted his elaborate campaign of what I believe to be deception without encouragement from someone else.

I imagine Lazar will be an enigma for some time...he's got good evidence, and there is equally damning evidence against him... it's a catch 22...

However, until some damn good video of these alleged test flights is produced...it will still just be Lazar's and Knapp's word....

Personally, I happen to believe elements of Lazar's story, but not the whole shebang...which then of course, is why even more questions arise (why make up some of it?). My answer is that I think he simply felt backed into a fence, and goofed...and this would seem to be supported by his disdain of the UFO community at present...

As for Lear, one would not be banned for supporting a case. EVERYONE is entitled to their opinion. A thorough review of the thread/s involved should explain things, if one takes the time to look (see a member's links above)... While I may disagree with Lear on many things (especially Meier), I certainly would never agree with banning based on difference of opinion. Indeed, some of my favorite members have always been those who disagree with me on a regular basis... You don't learn much if everyone agrees with you...

Originally posted by jbondo

Originally posted by admriker444
I never understood why people wrote off Bob Lazar because he couldnt remember some names of college professors.

Dude, I am 45 and can still remember the names of grade school teachers and my memory is terrible.

Not only does he have a problem remembering professors but it would seem that not one professor or student has ever come forward to support Lazar's claimed education.

You're telling me that he didn't make one friend in college? That he didn't provide one memory from anyone?

As for knowing about flight plans, lots of people were going out to groom lake every night to look for UFO's. In other words, anyone with just a bit of logic could observe UFO's one night, come back the next night and see them again, look at their watch and think: hmmm, I wonder if I come back tomorrow night at this time if I'll see.....I think even the dimmest of bulbs could detect a pattern here.

I have made these points before and seems they were selectively ignored.

That might be your experience in college but it doesnt necessarily make it the standard by which we should judge Lazar.

It certainly isnt my standard.

I cant recall any teachers names from elementary or middle school. I do recall one teacher's name from high school and one from college. Does this mean I didnt really attend those schools, of course not. Just that I have a lousy memory.

I didnt make any friends in college. I only hung out with one person occasionally between a few classes and I dont recall his name now. I went to class and then to work. If I ate lunch on school grounds it was alone with the newspaper. Does this mean I didnt attend my college because nobody remembers me getting drunk at some frat party ? Of course not, just that I didnt attend parties or hang with anyone. I was 28 and married when I went back to finish my education and had zero interest in knowing anyone there.

I cant comment about the flight plan stuff as Im not very familiar with that subject. But I wouldnt assume someone didnt tell the truth because they went through school and doesnt recall much from that experience. I know I dont

Originally posted by Gazrok
Personally, I happen to believe elements of Lazar's story, but not the whole shebang...which then of course, is why even more questions arise (why make up some of it?).

The best 'stories' are those that just take a kernel of truth and stretch it to the limit. That's why certain parts are believable.

Other parts, his working as a part-time day worker through EG&G, having possibly met Edward Teller, and probably conned him (which Teller seems to have discovered, in part), is certainly true, but maybe some contexts have been changed.

What's more of a mystery is his motives. But as John Lear mentioned, a certain percentage of the stories Bob tells is elaboration. In Lazar's case that percentage stayed the same for many years - until his last interview, that is.

I got the feeling he knew that some people would pick up on this. He's well aware that people have commented on his story remaining unchanged before he did that last interview. Guess he just couldn't resist.


[edit on 15-2-2008 by Badge01]

LOL -- I really don't know why anyone takes what John Lear says seriously. He himself even admits he likes to stir the pot and what he says may not even be true or that he may not even believe it.

People put too much faith in others sometimes lol

If I had to bet, I'd bet that Lazar is NOT a fraud.