the contradiction of god

Originally posted by saint4God
Kids are born without brains? That's a bizarre medical factoid.

You're right! Why do we have all these laws preventing them from drinking, smoking, drugs, intercourse?? They have a brain! Let them decide for themselves!

Or is it because their brain isn't FULLY developed yet and they need to have some guidance? What if this guidance is misleading? I do believe that is what Babo was talking about.

Or was her statement that hard to understand?

Originally posted by babo12310
No they're not blind, but they do tend to blindly follow others.

Clearly you've never met a shepherd.

Originally posted by babo12310
Well if he is taking this heavy debt then I suppose Jesus is going to hell because for one person dying isn't enough for that person's sin and if Jesus has all the other's sins well he'll probably be in hell for a long time!

Actually he *did* go to hell. Three days is all it took for him to complete his work.

Originally posted by babo12310
And if god 'allows' people to just go around and accept the punishment for others he isn't being very fair to the people who have no one to accept punishment for them.

It's available to everyone. I suppose that proves fairness.

Originally posted by adigregorio
You're right! Why do we have all these laws preventing them from drinking, smoking, drugs, intercourse?? They have a brain! Let them decide for themselves!

Even a child can look at a abusive drunk or drugged parent and know that it is wrong, whether mommy and daddy say it is right or not. Would you agree? Laws are there for the adults who can no longer tell the difference nor teach children without these rules being on the book.

Originally posted by adigregorio
Or is it because their brain isn't FULLY developed yet and they need to have some guidance? What if this guidance is misleading? I do believe that is what Babo was talking about.

It happens, but children are not products of their parents thinkings. They have the ability to think and choose their course of actions. If you believe otherwise, how does an athiest come from a Christian household? Was the mighty brainwashing powers of the parents not good enough to subdue a mere child? Better still, how does a believer like me come from a house of non-believers? The only reasonable conclusion is that we are not simply products of our environment nor slaves to what we are taught.

Originally posted by adigregorio
Or was her statement that hard to understand?

Perfectly clear and you're welcomed to be as condescending as you like though it is without effect.

[edit on 20-2-2008 by saint4God]

Originally posted by babo12310
Of course its contradicting that’s all that’s in this religion stuff I mean think about it. Thats why it tends to be so hard to believe for some...


1.)God makes us and “loves” us all. Yet he sends us to hell if we commit a sin.

2.)In order to “save” us he sends his son whom he “loves” also. “Loves” so much he kills him to save us from his own wrath.


Sounds like god is bipolar to me…


[edit on 2/16/2008 by babo12310]

LMAO....I couldn't have put it any better!

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by babo12310
No they're not blind, but they do tend to blindly follow others.

Clearly you've never met a shepherd.

How is this not blindly following OTHERS???

The sheep, do not do their own thing. They FOLLOW the shepherd's instructions.

This looks to me as "Person A" is upset at the fact that "Person B" doesn't believe in what they believe. Furthermore this is not ON TOPIC

Is there a contradiction to "god(s)", by all means I think so. You can be forgiven for all but one sin. Which makes me wonder, if JC took ALL the sins, then he also took the unforgivable one. But if you are guilty of an eternal sin, shouldn't you have to go to hell? How is that for a contradiction.

Of course this one only applies to the Christian "god", not sure about any of the others.

[edit] spelling errors

[edit on 2/20/2008 by adigregorio]

Originally posted by adigregorio
How is this not blindly following OTHERS???

The sheep, do not do their own thing.

Nor do they blindly follow others.

Originally posted by adigregorio
They FOLLOW the shepherd's instructions.

Exactly.

Originally posted by adigregorio
This looks to me as "Person A" is upset at the fact that "Person B" doesn't believe in what they believe. Furthermore this is not ON TOPIC

I'm as willing to be on topic as you are. Notice my responses are replies with quotes from previous posters.

Originally posted by adigregorio
Is there a contradiction to "god(s)", by all means I think so. You can be forgiven for all but one sin. Which makes me wonder, if JC took ALL the sins, then he also took the unforgivable one. But if you are guilty of an eternal sin, shouldn't you have to go to hell? How is that for a contradiction.

The answer is here:

"I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin." - Mark 3:27-29

Main Entry: but
Function: conjunction

1 a: except for the fact b: that —used after a negative c: without the concomitant that d: if not : unless e: than —not often in formal use

2 a: on the contrary : on the other hand : notwithstanding —used to connect coordinate elements b: yet c: with the exception of —used before a word often taken to be the subject of a clause

www.merriam-webster.com...

To say "You may have all the gold coins in this jar but not this one" is not a contradition. It is a term or condition. To take them all would mean stealing the one you were not permissioned to take. You wouldn't win the court case if you took them all and the giver sued you.

[edit on 20-2-2008 by saint4God]

I'm going to ignore, for the most part, your skewing of what I said previously. Dirty way to debate though.

Originally posted by saint4God
The answer is here:

"I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin." - Mark 3:27-29

Exactly, now if Jesus, took all of the sins then he took that one also. Which means, he will never be forgiven well unless there is a contradiction in the Bible. And since that is the word of a god (supposedly) it would make god a contradiction, or at least his word, and I have been told that his word is the truth.

PS you forgot one...

Luke 12:10

Everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

reply to post by darktim


This is perhaps the best line of questioning about god and religion one can ask because it exposes how utterly pointless the entire concept of religion is. Believers who try to answer these questions only ensnare themselves in one logical trap after another.

To me it is like asking "Why would my mommy leave a live bomb in the floor disguised to look like a toy and tell me not to touch it while knowing full well I would not be able to resist?" It goes without saying that such a mommy is a sadistic psychopathic killer. She is no mommy at all but rather a monster who needs to be locked up and the key thrown away.

Of course it gets even more absurd when you consider a mommy who leaves bombs all over the house so that she can show her children how much she loves them by rescuing them from the bombs at the last minute. Such a mommy is still a black-hearted psychopath.

Originally posted by adigregorio
I'm going to ignore, for the most part,

You're certainly free to do so.

Originally posted by adigregorio
your skewing of what I said previously. Dirty way to debate though.

I don't see either, but if you're unwilling to address, there's no possible way I could.

Originally posted by adigregorio
Exactly, now if Jesus, took all of the sins then he took that one also.

Apparently not. My quote is what Jesus said.

Originally posted by adigregorio
Which means, he will never be forgiven well unless there is a contradiction in the Bible.

Never means never when he says it.

Originally posted by adigregorio
And since that is the word of a god (supposedly) it would make god a contradiction, or at least his word, and I have been told that his word is the truth.

You can say anything you like, but this isn't what the Book (nor God) says.

Originally posted by adigregorio
PS you forgot one...

Luke 12:10

Everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

Thanks, it applies equally well to illustrate my example.

[edit on 20-2-2008 by saint4God]

Except that the 'baby' was a grown man and woman. Adam and Eve!
It's simple, really.
Jesus took on the punishment of ALL, while remaining S-I-N-L-E-S-S!

reply to post by saint4God


Alright, let's assume you are correct. I tire of the way you debate things. You should take a page from Clearskies book when it comes to debate.

What about this contradiction.

"Free Will"

It is told that Jesus died for "my sins", what if I do not want him to do this? (Which I don't) Where is my "free will" when it comes to this scenario? I had no choice in the matter.

And as I state in my thread about the "Hero Pattern" I never say what others believe is wrong, nor do I think it. Everyone should be entitled to what they want to believe in (or do). It is not up to me to say another is wrong on a subject that can not be determined to be false, or true. And I am not implying that anyone has done that to me, or others, in this thread. (Again, not my place)

Originally posted by Clearskies
Except that the 'baby' was a grown man and woman. Adam and Eve!
It's simple, really.
Jesus took on the punishment of ALL, while remaining S-I-N-L-E-S-S!

Many passages in the Bible refer to god as the heavenly father and humans as either his obedient or disobedient children. JeZeus even taught that unless we become like children we will not enter the kingdom of heaven. So the analogy applies and shows what a sick psychopath your imaginary god is.


OT: Was JeZeus sinless when he stole the colt (Luke 19:29-35)? I suppose it is ok with you if I come to your house to take your car and when you catch me I say "the lord has need of it" like that justifies theft?

Edit: Grammar.

[edit on 20-2-2008 by Lilitu]

Originally posted by adigregorio
Alright, let's assume you are correct. I tire of the way you debate things. You should take a page from Clearskies book when it comes to debate.

If it is correct, why would I take a page from someone else? I like Clearskies and read Clear's posts as well, though I'm not one to blindly follow someone else.

Originally posted by adigregorio
What about this contradiction.

"Free Will"

It is told that Jesus died for "my sins", what if I do not want him to do this?

Then you have to die for your sins. (John 3:16) Jesus isn't going to cover you whether you want him or not. Jesus is going to cover you if you accept him being your saviour.

Originally posted by adigregorio
(Which I don't) Where is my "free will" when it comes to this scenario? I had no choice in the matter.

You have the freedom to choose (free will) to accept the offer or reject it.

Originally posted by Lilitu
I suppose it is ok with you if I come to your house to take your car and when you catch me I say "the lord has need of it" like that justifies theft?

Now that is a tasty contradiction! Of course I do not remember the entire story behind the GTC (Grand Theft Colt), so it may not be a contradiction.

*awaits the scripture of the GTC*

PS I do not think JC stole the colt himself either, but accessory to a crime is considered the same as committing the crime itself.

reply to post by saint4God


So you are saying that JC did NOT die for my sins? (since I didn't acknowledge him as my savior)

That means he knew I would not accept him, and therefore I STILL do not have free will.

Or did he die for my sins, then take back the offer when I decided not to accept it? If that is the case who got my "Get out of hell free" card?

Originally posted by adigregorio

PS I do not think JC stole the colt himself either, but accessory to a crime is considered the same as committing the crime itself.

Not just accessory but conspiracy is also a crime. JeZeus told them what to steal and what do if they were caught.

Originally posted by adigregorio
Now that is a tasty contradiction! Of course I do not remember the entire story behind the GTC (Grand Theft Colt), so it may not be a contradiction.

*awaits the scripture of the GTC*

*sigh* Very well then, if people aren't going to read the book, I'll have to quote it yet again:

"If anyone says anything to you, tell him that the Lord needs them, and he will send them right away." - Matthew 21:3

It does NOT say the man will say "Stop! Theif!", rather they will be gifted.

Originally posted by adigregorio
PS I do not think JC stole the colt himself either,

Go with that instinct.

[edit on 20-2-2008 by saint4God]

You didn't answer my question. saint4God. Unless you were avoiding it?

Originally posted by adigregorio
reply to post by saint4God

 

So you are saying that JC did NOT die for my sins? (since I didn't acknowledge him as my savior)

That means he knew I would not accept him, and therefore I STILL do not have free will.

Or did he die for my sins, then take back the offer when I decided not to accept it? If that is the case who got my "Get out of hell free" card?

Originally posted by adigregorio
So you are saying that JC did NOT die for my sins? (since I didn't acknowledge him as my savior)

According to the Book, that would be a correct statement. Not saying that couldn't change.

Originally posted by adigregorio
That means he knew I would not accept him, and therefore I STILL do not have free will.

If you believe you have no right to choose, then you're right. If you DO believe you have the power to choose, how empowered one is to change!

Originally posted by adigregorio
Or did he die for my sins, then take back the offer when I decided not to accept it?

The offer is still on the table, the transaction has not been completed...yet.

Originally posted by adigregorio
If that is the case who got my "Get out of hell free" card?

There's not only one card. This goes against's God's abundance mentality that really sets an awe-inspiring framework in Revelation. As far as your particular card with your name on it, either you'll have one or you won't. This offer is not transferrable and is bound by the terms and agreements set by the Proprietor. Any changes to this agreement must be approved by the Owner and life-termination is the limited the the timeframe set by the Maker. Operator is standing by, call today.

Originally posted by adigregorio
You didn't answer my question. saint4God. Unless you were avoiding it?

Dude, give me a sec. I was typing the answer >_