Why does there have to be a Creator, or anything created?

Originally posted by Skyfloating


A typical remark I used to make: "It cant be proven, but it can be experienced.

I believe you've just described consciousness

Give yourself a round of applause

Originally posted by Nohup


I prefer to think that what we understand as time doesn't necessarily move in a single straight line from the past through the present to the future. I think that's only a convenience we have evolved to perceive because it helps us as animals live in the physical world.

hallelujah!... My thinking too... Unfortunately, we end up defining everything else by it's location in time. Even the big bang which is actually supposed to have created it is defined by when it happened in time

I also go along with the notion that consciousness and observation are vital components necessary to bring the virtual aspects of the Universe into reality. Collapsing the wave function, and all that.

That makes sense (in as much as anything in quantum theory makes sense.. hehe) . My thinking is that what we view as a virtual, uncollapsed wave function is actually is an infinite number of possibilities that already exist, and that in our limited 3D confined consciousness allows us to experience a future possibility by choosing to travel along one of those paths.

In our real all-knowing, all-aware state it is not possible to experience the universe in this fashion... but by limiting our consciousness to 3 dimensions and one path that has to be chosen (a timeline) it is.

And from there, I like to think that the existence of the Universe is in a kind of expanding time loop, where it was created in the "past" by consciousness either in the present or future. So, in essence, the Universe (and possibly the molecular construction that is life) "bootstraps" itself into existence.

So there's another option, not popularly considered. It helps eliminate a lot of those sticky cause-and-effect difficulties, and doesn't require a single Creator entity (we pretty much all pitch in). On the downside, it's essentially impossible to prove. Oh, well.

The mental image of this all-knowing, eternal superbeing trying to hoist itself up by it's bootstraps had me laughing out loud

Thanks for a great post

Creator and Co-Creators...It seems that in my perspective that which is the creator or the all of the universe, the Isness or whatever you want to call it is both sides of the matter issue. The building blocks that in the end is manipulated by the rest of us which are the Co-Creators to create that which is reality on what various level of conciousness that we reside on at any given time or even as any given being that we are animating.

Then when you look at us being in the likeness of the Creator well then our true selves which would seem to be the soul which by the way is everlasting so long as the creation lasts as far as I can see so that makes the real us immortal and well matter and energy as well.

Sure there have been lower cased God's that have been around taking advantage of others, cause lets face it, the could and they did. Doese it make it right or wrong, well that is for each of us to decide cause I really do not think the supreme being or again whatever we wish to call it really does not care, for if it did then it would not have given us all free will of choice. Without free will of choice, we can not even begin to learn all that there is to know and I am not sure that anyone can learn all there is to know. But we can say that everything thing we know and learn is also known and learned by the Creator as well since we and it are really made up of well...that which is the Creator of all things. Pretty cool if I must say myself.

As for the positive and negative thing, that is again all a part of the main Creator for which we manipulate to Co-Create everything including our own existance. The key to it seems to be in the simple concept of keeping to the middle ground and not letting to much of one side or the other take place all together.

Does the Creator create on its own. That is an interesting thought and I would have to say if we can Co-Create then yes the Creator can create as well and that is its intent to keep things moving forward as it can create new realities for which the rest of us can experience, explore and interact with and so on.

Is the possibility that no Supreme being exists or Creator? Can't emagine that cause it makes no logical sense. Just like the Creator telling us what we can and can not do, makes no logical sense. To control is to stagnate and we sure can not have that. Even on the tiny little world we call Earth if that really was true, then well life would soon not exist. It's all just responsible choice which there is always going to be at least two major sides to the issue in the reality of this universe. At least until the rules are changed.

Originally posted by Sad Face Stan

Originally posted by cybrseer
Seeking knowledge, truth, and understanding are certainly the loftiest of goals, however, in our pursuit of truth we to often fail to incorporate our weaknesses and limited knowledge, hence we become lost in a self absorbed and intoxicating cerebral storm, the insights are exciting and exhilarating yet in the end we are left with only the residual high of our quest and even more questions. The truths we seek are most elusive and demand intellectual honesty and a greater understanding of oneself. We to often, innocently become sidetracked by our own ego and self aggrandizement, which in turn blinds us to the very light we seek. Ego is necessary but should be balanced with intellectual honesty.

Many of those who believe in a God or Gods also believe that they have knowledge, insight, and understanding of a God or Gods. Their approach is typically backwards and simply leads to more questions than answers.

Perhaps a more enlightening approach would be as follows.

I seek the knowledge and understanding of a God or Gods.
I am not a God.
The knowledge that a God possesses is what makes them a God
I do not possess the knowledge of a God
To acquire the knowledge and understanding of a God you must first become one.

Therefore one honest approach would be to pursue becoming a God.

This certainly sounds like an out of control ego and seems to contradict my previous warnings of keeping ones ego in balance. What many overlook is the nature of the knowledge sought. If you seek the knowledge and understanding of man then a mans ego will do just fine. If you seek the knowledge and understanding of a God than a Gods ego would seem appropriate.

maybe we are like gods and like computer are like galaxies and humans and like inside or universes like in MIB 2. cause maybe i remember this thing and it was about elctrons and how they move when we look at them and watch them so maybe they are little peoples and that is why i cant find any or why they are to small for people to see

WOW, try saying THAT 3 times backwards!