Germany becomes First Country to admit Chemtrails Operation

Originally posted by DancedWithWolves
Photo evidence of American chemtrails...(mood lightener)

Those are clearly not chemtrails, as there's a gap between the talons and the trail.

Originally posted by Essan
bsbray11, could you kindly answer the question: do you believe that chemtrails are actually chaff deployed by military aircraft and, whilst invisible from the ground, can be readily identified on radar? As indicated by this particular German new story?

Not always. It could be any chemical deliberately dumped into the air as far as I'm concerned, whether for manipulating weather, climate, radar, making people guinea pigs for chemical warfare tests, or whatever other sordid business the military/government has shoved its nose into.

So including the normal non-visible exhaust in conditions where contrails do not form??

so chemtrails are made at ground level when taxiing and taking off too?

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
So including the normal non-visible exhaust in conditions where contrails do not form??

If various chemicals, when dumped, do not leave any visible trail at all, then what do you think?

Do you know what Operation LAC looked like when they dumped that stuff in the 1950s? And no, it was a little worse than just car exhaust.

reply to post by bsbray11


I dont' know what LAC looked like - I expect it would be much like hte British version on YT.

But why is it relevant??

the proposition is that there is currently something being dumped now and for the last 13-15 years or so - but no evidence has been put forth to support the proposition other than "you don't know it isn't being done" - which is, as we all know of course, an argument from ignorance and a logicl fallacy - so not actually evidence at all.

Have you got anything else??

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
I dont' know what LAC looked like - I expect it would be much like hte British version on YT.

What a shock, you are ignorant of what covert military dumping operations look like.

But why is it relevant??

If you can't figure that out on your own then there is no use in me even talking to you.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by bsbray11

 

I dont' know what LAC looked like - I expect it would be much like hte British version on YT.

I have asked you to link this video already. Please do so because I can't find it.

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


Here's the Portn Down spraying

BSBray - this is what the British experiment looked like - I've posted it for you before IIRC - did the American versions resemble this?

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Thanks for the video. Seeing as how its impossible to determine what altitude that plan was at, not to mention a 2 minute clip certainly can't be the only video evidence, can we agree the chemical was sprayed in a line behind the aircraft?

If so, lets pretend that plane was at a altitude high enough to reach temperatures of -50f to -70f. Can we assume the chemical would have frozen and been left lingering in the air resembling a contrail?

Huh? They are not the first. The US made it public, long ago that in the past they have sprayed things from plains ( Silver oxide) in an attempt to manipulate the weather... It was largely unsuccessful... They were able to make it rain but only directly over where the silver oxide was dropped....

Not worth the time or effort, so it has been stopped for the most part....

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Thanks for the video. Seeing as how its impossible to determine what altitude that plan was at, not to mention a 2 minute clip certainly can't be the only video evidence, can we agree the chemical was sprayed in a line behind the aircraft?

If so, lets pretend that plane was at a altitude high enough to reach temperatures of -50f to -70f. Can we assume the chemical would have frozen and been left lingering in the air resembling a contrail?

Yes, you can. It was filmed from the ground, and its at low level.

Originally posted by firepilot

Yes, you can. It was filmed from the ground, and its at low level.

Very good. We still can't determine the altitude or do you have range finding eyes that even work even through YouTube video's. Or is a measurement of "low" accurate enough for you?

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Thanks for the video. Seeing as how its impossible to determine what altitude that plan was at, not to mention a 2 minute clip certainly can't be the only video evidence, can we agree the chemical was sprayed in a line behind the aircraft?

Indeed - 1 line, not from engines, no gap to engines

If so, lets pretend that plane was at a altitude high enough to reach temperatures of -50f to -70f. Can we assume the chemical would have frozen and been left lingering in the air resembling a contrail?

it would be a "white line", but firstly it wouldn't freeze as it is not water - it is zinc cadmium sulphide, and secondly it won't last because it is heavy and falls to the ground - so even with no wind it dissipates - you can see it starting to dissipate very quickly in the old movie footage.

so these "chemtrails" actually don't last long at all - they are the exact opposite of the popular chemtrail myth that chemtails are long lasting!!

and of course the substance was designed to be easily located - by flouorescence - not to be completely undetectable.

there's more documentation of the Porton Down trials here - www.nr23.net...

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

it would be a "white line", but firstly it wouldn't freeze as it is not water - it is zinc cadmium sulphide, and secondly it won't last because it is heavy and falls to the ground - so even with no wind it dissipates -
you can see it starting to dissipate very quickly in the old movie footage.

so these "chemtrails" actually don't last long at all - they are the exact opposite of the popular chemtrail myth that chemtails are long lasting!!

and of course the substance was designed to be easily located - by flouorescence - not to be completely undetectable.

Your right about the zinc cadmium sulphide, it wouldn't work, but they did also use bacillus globigii and I assume it would have been mixed with water or some other fluid for dispersal.

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
Huh? They are not the first. The US made it public, long ago that in the past they have sprayed things from plains ( Silver oxide) in an attempt to manipulate the weather... It was largely unsuccessful... They were able to make it rain but only directly over where the silver oxide was dropped....

Not worth the time or effort, so it has been stopped for the most part....

No it hasn't they do it in many places. It's called "cloud seeding".

North Dakota, for example:

dpw.lacounty.gov...://www.swc.nd.gov/4dlink9/4dcgi/GetSubContentPDF/PB-396/SeedingQ&A_2010W eb.pdf

27. Who else is doing weather modification?
The latest data from the World Meteorological Organization compiled
for 2009 listed more than 100 projects ongoing worldwide in
more than 34 countries. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)
documented 45 projects conducted in ten U.S. states. Project
objectives included fog dispersal, snowpack and
rainfall enhancement and hail suppression.

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


Apparently bacillus globigii was dispensed in tests in both liquid and dry form - eg see this pdf - fhp.osd.mil...

whether the liquid form released at high altitude/sub-zero temperatures would look and behave exactly like contrails I don't know - I expect there would be some obvious differences if it did freeze & was visible - volume & therefore the visible nature of the plume, where it is dispersed from on the aircraft, and how it dissipates all spring to mind as aspects I would investigate.

Operation SHAD is on wiki here - en.wikipedia.org... with links to LAC and DEW and various documents relating to them are on all 3 pages.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
BSBray - this is what the British experiment looked like - I've posted it for you before IIRC - did the American versions resemble this?

How do you think I would know?

The whole point is that you have no idea what the dumping during Operation LAC or any other covert military chemical dumping operation would look like, to be looking at photos and pretending to know what you're even looking at. Have you figured out how to chemically analyze the air just by looking at it with your eyeballs yet?

A tad late, but relevant nonetheless.

For your information the Valetta aircraft shown in the declassified film on You Tube was flying at a height of 400 ft asl. The purpose of the trials was to determine a dissemination procedure for the upcoming Large Area Coverage (LAC) ZnCds field trials, hence the somewhat sporadic dispersal of the simulant.

A better idea of what an aircraft delivered Biological Warfare attack would look like can be found in another declassified film, also to be found on YouTube. This shows the National Gas Turbine Establishment (NGTE) Canberra aircraft (WH657), disseminating a Biological Warfare simulant over Salisbury Plain from a height of 1,000 ft asl.

The extent to which the National Gas Turbine Establishment (located at Pyestock near Fleet) collaborated with the Microbiological Research Establishment (MRE) Porton Down is not generally known. It was this joint NGTE/MRE research programme which enabled the MRE Porton Down to later develop the 'dual-use' clandestine Biological Warfare spray aircraft - Canberra WV787.






zero lift

reply to post by zero lift


It is notable that the Canberra is leaving no visible trail from the viewpoint of the cameraman, but around the 15 second mark there is a clearly visible contrail peeking through the gap in the clouds from an earlier, higher flight.

Does this portion of film actually show the Canberra during the release?

Yep, I noticed the contrail as well. It really shows the difference between a Biological Warfare attack (albeit using BW simulants) and a contrail, doesn't it?

Yes, it does show the NGTE Canberra spraying a BW simulant aerosol. If you look really closely, you can just see a faint line trailing behind the aircraft. This is a BW simulant line crosswind source.





zero lift