PROOF that Ancient Civilizations were as advanced as us!

Originally posted by Harte
The Romans certainly did have cranes. Huge cranes. Many, many of them in fact.

Capable of lifting what kinds of loads? This is something new to me.

Just tell me the material the pulley was made out of. That could quickly tell us what kinds of loads they could handle.

This is already reminding me of a show I once saw on TV where all these "experts" were saying the stones for the Easter Island statues were moved by rolling them over logs, only to try it later in the show to realize that the coefficient of friction between the logs and the ground once weighted was considerable, and the logs wouldn't roll, so their method didn't work. And then they said they used massive rafts, but couldn't manage to get any of the massive stones onto a raft from the shore (or a dock either, if memory serves, because the rafts sank).

Point is, I guess, armchair theorizing on ancient construction techniques tend to become strained once they're put to the test and so I have a hard time buying the theories that simply call for bigger and greater quantities of the only primitive tools and methods we assume they had.

If somebody was foolish enough to decide to build that way today, it would be incumbent on them to arrange to have some such cranes cobbled together.

Why would it be foolish to build like that with stone? Because steel is cheaper for us? I hope that's not what you're thinking. And ancient stone monuments will be standing long after the Empire State Building and Sears Tower will be. What you're suggesting to me is that you pretty arrogantly think that whatever we're doing (in general as a culture) is automatically better than whatever the ancients were using. Just because we come afterwards, I guess? Or maybe we just have different definitions of the word "better" in mind in this case.

However, if you look into it, you'll see that the quarry at Baalbek is actually at a higher elevation than the temple so the stones were never "lifted" there in the first place.

What, they were all rolled down hill? I posted a picture earlier that showed exactly what type of terrain was around the area so don't give me this crap as if it's supposed to be an explanation to itself. Come on, you have to do better than that. They were stood upright and everything.

Regarding the pieces that make the gigantic columns, the stone carving of these pieces is far more impressive than the mere lifting into place of these pieces.

Agreed. Blocks inside the pyramid reportedly have smooth surfaces down to 1000ths of an inch of tolerance, supposedly cut by hand.

[edit on 12-2-2008 by bsbray11]

Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by Harte
The Romans certainly did have cranes. Huge cranes. Many, many of them in fact.

Capable of lifting what kinds of loads? This is something new to me.

You dont need to go further than wiki.

The simplest Roman crane, the Trispastos, consisted of a single-beam jib, a winch, a rope, and a block containing three pulleys. Having thus a mechanical advantage of 3:1, it has been calculated that a single man working the winch could raise 150 kg (3 pulleys x 50 kg = 150), assuming that 50 kg represent the maximum effort a man can exert over a longer time period. Heavier crane types featured five pulleys (Pentaspastos) or, in case of the largest one, a set of three by five pulleys (Polyspastos) and came with two, three or four masts, depending on the maximum load. The Polyspastos, when worked by four men at both sides of the winch, could already lift 3000 kg (3 ropes x 5 pulleys x 4 men x 50 kg = 3000 kg). In case the winch was replaced by a treadwheel, the maximum load even doubled to 6000 kg at only half the crew, since the treadwheel possesses a much bigger mechanical advantage due to its larger diameter. This meant that, in comparison to the construction of the Egyptian Pyramids, where about 50 men were needed to move a 2.5 ton stone block up the ramp (50 kg per person), the lifting capability of the Roman Polyspastos proved to be 60 times higher (3000 kg per person).

wiki link on cranes (I put zero weight in their comparison with the pyramid construction though, I think the egyptians where smarter than pulling them with raw strenght)



The wiki link also mention even larger Roman crane systems for more weight. A 1200 ton stone would no doubt require a very well coordinated effort to raise... They probably built a crane system specific to the site to raise it. But just like us, they had the basic technical skills to pull it off.

[edit on 13-2-2008 by merka]

reply to post by Ketzer22


Ive spent a large quantity of my time reading about the sumerians and I'm going to answer your question here, that planet, they called 'eris nibiri' or 'Plane of crossing' as we all know now as Eris, this is a massive planet with a 3600 year retrograde orbit around the sun, it was called the plane of crossing because it passed through two seperate solar systems, they knew of this planet and believe this is where the annunaki came from. The reason why they did not use 'computers' and such was because there was no need for them, as they already had achieved infinite knowledge, read the 12th planet by Zecharia Sitchin, he will show you that these people even knew the secrets to radioactive therapy and weaponry. The Sumerians were way ahead of even our time and knew things about space that even we propably wont ever know about. I mean cmon, they invented the wheel! lol

Originally posted by merka
The wiki link also mention even larger Roman crane systems for more weight.

The Wiki states what size cranes they were known to have had, and then states that much larger blocks were used in some places so therefore larger cranes and/or configurations must have also existed. For our intents and purposes that is backwards reasoning. What other evidence do you have, so you can show from the blocks that the cranes must have existed?

They probably built a crane system specific to the site to raise it.

So how exactly do they get the crane around one of those blocks to lift it out of the quarry?

reply to post by Bornofosiris

read the 12th planet by Zecharia Sitchin,

*Sigh*
Better yet, read one of any number of accredited works by actual professionals in the field, of which there are thousands, and leave Sitchin in the airport bookstore.

I'm beginning to wonder if people get paid to plug his books around here...

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
*Sigh*
Better yet, read one of any number of accredited works by actual professionals in the field, of which there are thousands, and leave Sitchin in the airport bookstore.

I'm beginning to wonder if people get paid to plug his books around here...

Now you know how I feel about the Zeitgeist spammers.

It's nerve wracking to be shown a poor source repeatedly as if it is the end and be all of responsible scholarship.

Any one interested in the so called "helicopter" on the Osiris Glyph look here:
www.catchpenny.org...

As you can see its not quite as obvious as it first appears when taken in context ( the pic posted on here had been touched up as well)

With regards to Sumerians: great lot; did alot for humankind; did not have technology beyond ours.

Our technology reflects what we understand of the physical world (micro to macro) and its a culmination of multi discipline science.

Yes theres probably "lost knowledge" ; stuff that was passed by word of mouth for generations but in our recent history we went from being able to imagine internal combustion to acheiving nuclear fission in 700 years .

During that time we will have left more evidence of our technological development than is probably healthy....

Aside from the nuclear stuff that will be around for 10's of thousands of years ; we routinely make things like concrete ; around 7 BILLION cubic metres per year and none bio degradable plastics ( around 10 times that) which will be more than evident to anybody living here in 8000 years.

Some smart alec may say they were more environmentallly sound than us but lets not forget they are us and we are them. ......that means they probably conduscted themselves in the smae fatalistic manner we do today.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by Bornofosiris

 

read the 12th planet by Zecharia Sitchin,

*Sigh*
Better yet, read one of any number of accredited works by actual professionals in the field, of which there are thousands, and leave Sitchin in the airport bookstore.

I'm beginning to wonder if people get paid to plug his books around here...

ah, I would love to believe that every website holds the answers to what has happened to us, but once again, I'm not spamming zitchin, I dont think he was the best of the best, I was giving an example, there are plenty better, the only things I took interest too are the fact that the translation he gives are extremely similar if not, the same as other scholars in the same field. merely pointing out that what has been translated shows PROOF of what they had known. as for them being 'more' advanced than us, I do believe that, just because we have computers and cars and all that jazz, wow, we have material possesion, oh man, we are definetley at our prime!! I mean they were more advanced mentally, they were more worldly connected in the sence that they can use the world around them to help thier advancement, without them, we wouldnt be here. computers didnt get us here, the fact that we can make something out of nothing is one thing, and that they can make something that does the same thing, out of raw material is another. They were connected, they knew everything about the earth, if we're so advanced, then why do we have to spend years looking at facts of nutrients in foods and whatnot, when they already knew thier properties? if we advanced with them, wouldnt it be common sence?

it feels to me that we've been spending most of our time relearning things they already knew, and having to achieved what ancient human had no effort in achieving but semingly forgot about in advancement due to dominance, not saying they did not have that problem then, but this was supposedly before 'the flood' am i right? Humanity was apparently cleansed and started again. losing everything they had learned. if such is true I mean.

reply to post by bsbray11

Moving stones ... why couldn't Egyptians have used herds of elephants, I know lots of men got crushed (was it actually from the stone or from elephants). There were no dinosaurs I guess maybe they wished they had dinosaurs and would wonder what the heck is this a elephant bone not knowing what a dinosaur was maybe think of them as giants.

What's all this stuff about Samaria being so intelligent on this thread were reading ... "PROOF that Ancient Civilizations were as advanced as us!". If that were true there would still be Samarian writing reading & today, not that history don't count but I'm not that old. The definition is wide spread. Ancient Civilizations wouldn't have even left a dent on humanity we study in history and may have left earth before what we study as they could have very well lived underwater and thats more area than land mass. Just why can't we manage to build cities underwater and have monorail travel instead of personal submarines to travel between them and to come to mainlands, is it cause that would upset the economical threads of oil production.

My dictionary has some words: Samarian, Accadian see this link Scans From Dictionary Of the Bible. I made these myself so they open to the image no page so right clicking to save target as is OK. Tell me what you think? I didn't know there were Chinese Jews till I read these books. I guess the Chinese did come to the Middle East.

reply to post by Trauma

Tell me when did the spelling change from Samarian to Sumerian?

My dictionary has some words: Samarian, Accadian see this link Scans From Dictionary Of the Bible. I made these myself so they open to the image no page so right clicking to save target as is OK. Tell me what you think? I didn't know there were Chinese Jews till I read these books. I guess the Chinese did come to the Middle East. Star mapping was the main way to get directions as landscaping always changed on the sand and the water and during the night you can travel farther than the heat of the day, problem is managing your thirst. It has been stated in a book that the Chinese came to South America before Christopher Columbus came to America, and they also used balloons made of cement to escape the emperior and brought babies with them. I believe one way to move large stones is with hot oil, preferrably a vegetable like olive oil. Vibrating the stone then made it work effectively. Lots of slaves were burned by this method, as well as loses of hands, arms, feet, and broken legs all due to slipping. South Africa had white rubber trees so this could have been a very special product in moving large stones if they had a chance to see the Egyptians.

Originally posted by OoTopNotchoO
and they also used balloons made of cement

LOL, that I'd like to see!!!

The landing sequence must have been tough. A 1000+ ton (or more like 10,000 ton?) cement ballon collapsing over you got to hurt.

Originally posted by Bornofosiris
... they called 'eris nibiri' or 'Plane of crossing' as we all know now as Eris, this is a massive planet with a 3600 year retrograde orbit around the sun.

just to nitpick but this is Eris
it has an orbital period of 557 earth years or 203,600 earth days



i thought we were supposed to deny ignorance in here? say what? cement balloons? wow!


[edit on 2.17.08 by toreishi]

reply to post by merka

Perhaps some cement balloons out in the Pacific could be found. I read they were painted with many different colors. Wonder if any got past South America that maybe Columbus thought was a UFO as it could have caught fire. Don't ask me how they made the cement balloons , thats almost as difficult for me to answer as would be building pyramids.

They were only advanced in thier time period. But people of Earth might had been advanced as we are or more before the flood.

A Scientist probably saw the cement balloon post, and started wondering if it could fly.

Well, c'mon. You can't expect the people documenting this stuff to know what's going on do you?

My question is, why is it that all we see are the stone or clay engravings? Why don't we have any metallic pieces or plastic artifacts from this advanced race?

It just seems strange. You'd expect that a race of advanced aliens that spent as much time as the Annunaki had, and with as much direct influence, would leave something behind. Maybe they did, but those advance aliens knew how to make biodegradable artifacts. Or maybe the government is hiding and covering up anything ancient and made of metal.

I just read the above paragraph and it seems like I wrote it sarcastically. I really meant it.

Originally posted by OoTopNotchoO
reply to post by merka

Perhaps some cement balloons out in the Pacific could be found. I read they were painted with many different colors. Wonder if any got past South America that maybe Columbus thought was a UFO as it could have caught fire. Don't ask me how they made the cement balloons , thats almost as difficult for me to answer as would be building pyramids.

Since when do cement catch fire?

In case you dont know it, cement weighs about as much as solid granite. They'd need like 20 Saturn class rockets to even lift a "cement balloon" off the ground.

The Chinese where pretty good at fireworks, but that's some SERIOUS fireworks.

[edit on 17-2-2008 by merka]

reply to post by merka

other types too besides cement.

reply to post by Rasobasi420

Covering up metallic object creativity perhaps, looter history has not been a real adventuresome activity by all of humanity some would rather not have any historical periods, of course erasing a civilization is difficult if they are onto what was happening like hiding artifacts to protect them as in the dead sea scrolls mattered more than imagined. Again though mentioning how obvious our thoughts prosper on what remains following a flood of what if hurricane and or tornado where objects are thrown and scattered for miles never to know exactly who owned them or where they came from could be a clue to discovering some real errors in historical documentation.

Originally posted by merka

Originally posted by OoTopNotchoO
and they also used balloons made of cement

LOL, that I'd like to see!!!

The landing sequence must have been tough. A 1000+ ton (or more like 10,000 ton?) cement ballon collapsing over you got to hurt.

There may be something to this.

I once dreamed that the ancients had cement balloons but that they finally moved on to other, more lightweight balloons. You know, balloons made of water or steam.

It appears that the concept of the cement balloon went over like a lead...well, you know.

Harte