Forbidden Egyptology

Originally posted by Hanslune
So in your mind, AE voyaged to South America for over 2,500 years and no evidence of it exists?

Hi Hanslune.
No it is not in my mind that the AE voyaged to South America for over 2,500 years.
And to tell you the truth, I really never thought it over before how it must have come in possession of the AE.
But your question definitely triggered me to think it over now.

But besides that, I ask you what could be so bad or wrong about it?

Originally posted by Hanslune
Okay where in SA did the AE get drugs from? Explain the route please. I think you'll come up with a problem - what is that problem?

Why would I explain a possible route to you if you name it already a problem?

Originally posted by Hanslune
There is no conspiracy Spacevisitor,

There is a conspiracy of silence by the mainstream Egyptologists and obvious by you for provided very good evidence that definitely challenge certain so called AE facts.

Originally posted by Hanslune
just very bad scholarship and a refusal to see evidence. That I cannot help you with.

What you say here is absolute not true, there is really very good scholarship indeed, but because it don’t fit in the view of mainstream Egyptologists and yourself on certain things you and many others call it therefore bad scholarship.

Originally posted by Hanslune
Ah winter, that doesn’t make it easier but it took them 9 month so that took it thru spring and summer too. The Egyptian also used wooden sleds - do you know about the compressibility factor of wood? So non-mechanized man moved a 1,500 ton stone, slowly but they did it with manpower.

Well if it is your opinion that pulling a 1,500 ton stone on a metallic sled which slid over bronze spheres about 13.5 cm (6 inches) in diameter over hard frozen ground covered with ice is the same as pulling some 2 million blocks from 1.5 to 4 tons and some up to 15 and 60-80 tonnes on a wooden sled over sand then that’s entirely up to you of course.
I supposed you also noticed the tools they used for pulling that1,500 ton stone, tools that the AE definitely didn’t had.
Capstan’s and pulleys.

Originally posted by Hanslune
I once moved a four ton stone with 24 students - it was back breaking labor but we did it in 2 days (120 meters)

That is really a good performance no doubt about it, but if you find that already back breaking labour what does that mean for this men then.

Some 15.000 to 40.000 people, needed to build the Great pyramid in about 10 years.
A workforce that have sustained a rate of 180 blocks per hour (3 blocks/minute) with ten hour work days for putting each individual block in place.
Take a real good look at this, 180 blocks per hour (3 blocks per minute) three blocks of 1.5 to 4 tons per minute, for ten ours a day, week after week, month after month and year after year.

With a number of blocks used in construction with an average above 2.3 million as most sources agrees.
With the average weight of core blocks about 1.5 to 4 tons each.
High quality limestone was used for the outer casing, with some of the blocks weighing up to 15 tonnes. This limestone came from Tura, about 14 km away on the other side of the Nile.
Granite quarried nearly 800 km away in Aswan with blocks weighing as much as 60-80 tonnes, was used for the King's Chamber and relieving chambers. And doesn’t forget they use ramps to drag them then up to a height of about 480 feet.

Even if they were all Arnold Swartenegger’s they never good have done that I my opinion.

Originally posted by Hanslune
You should look up how the Indian capstone was moved, open your mind to knowledge outside your comfort zone. Hint the Indians used a ramp, its documented and part of the ramp is still there.

I have not seen that yet, but maybe you can provide me a link?


[edit on 2/5/08 by spacevisitor]

Ah guys let me say this again. Even in Russia the ground is NOT frozen nine months out of the year. Both of you repeated that error. The Egyptian had simple pulleys, as evidenced by their ships. It is not known if they had capstans like the Russians. If you don’t have capstans- you need more guys, a lot more guys.

So Spacevisitor now that you’ve had some time to think about can you explain why 2,500 years of trade with SA, much of it during the time the Greeks and Romans and Phoenicians were about – and no one noticed – to include the South Americans and the Egyptians. More amazingly they only traded coc aine and Tobacco nothing else and more amazingly the Egyptians didn’t have to pay for it.

So what about that route – have you figured out the problem yet? When you do let me know.

Explain why you reject the existence of similar (but less robust) plants in the area of Egypt? Explain why you reject the fact that the concentrations were to high to have been ingested? Explain why you reject modern contamination?

Scholarship. Let me explain it this way. What you are doing can be explained in this analogy. In describing the US Civil war you talk about the first two days of Gettysburg and then forget everything else – you don’t mention the third day or the rest of war. Does this give you an accurate picture of history of that conflict? Yes or no?

I suspect you said no, so in the C & T you take one early report and then absolutely refuse to look at any information after that report, information that explains it. Sorry dudes, that is pure closedmindness, holding to that stand moves you towards crankdom.

Metal sled vs wood – no real difference – I asked you if you understood about the compressibility factor of wood, do you or don’t you know? If you did you wouldn’t think the metal sled was important. So what about it?

Those Oxford students were all soft upper class people – all with soft hands, not hardened farmers and craftsmen, plus you failed to remember that on large working activities you often change out the men, rotating them in and out to allow maximum productivity – you can also get 12 hours of work out of people in Egypt- its light during that time. I guess you haven’t been to Egypt.

You have seen the pictures of the Egyptian’s transporting huge stones by boats haven’t you– do you think they were lying, making up those pictures?

Oh and an argument from personal incredulity is very weak, can you make a bow from a piece of wood and the sinew of an animal, chip a stone arrow head? You can’t? Well gee then it must have been aliens/advanced humans making all those bows and arrows!

Facts and logic are a better bet

Amazing debate you two. I sit back and watch.

Feel free to join in Sky, mor' the merrier.

You're a smart guy so whats the problem an Egyptian or any other Med based sailor is going to have getting to an area that grows coc aine?

[edit on 2/5/08 by Hanslune]

I'll definitely contribute something to this thread down the road but I just wanted to chime in and say how incredibly fascinating I find this subject!
This is really one of the large contributing factors in my decision to go back to university and begin down the path to getting a degree in anthropology, possibly specializing in Egyptology although I'm not quit at that cross roads yet.
I finished my degree in computer science a few years ago and I've been some what unhappy with the career I've gotten myself into, it just doesn't feel right for me.
Though PC's (network eng) have been a passion of mine all my life I somehow can't see myself retiring an engineer/businessman.

A lot of where my decision came from was personal curiosity, something that doesn't exist in the IT world where everything is quantified, numbered and hard coded with only one ultimately correct answer and no room for intellectual debate.

Anyone else get as lost as I do in this subject? Theres really not enough information out there for me to read, watch or listen to. I'm dying to visit Egypt, oh man theres no where I'd rather travel to, well there and mexico to see the mayan and aztec ruins a close second place.

I'd like to (attempt) to learn the written language eventually, preferably before I do inevitably make the journey out there, I think if you can actually read the inscriptions on the walls of the temples it would be infinitely more meaningful and interesting than having some under paid/board guide wave his arms at things and parrot the same lines he has 1000 times before you. I think if I had someone to do it with it wouldn't be so hard. Actually I have no idea it could be near impossible lol Has anyone given it some legit effort??

Originally posted by Hanslune
Ah guys let me say this again. Even in Russia the ground is NOT frozen nine months out of the year. Both of you repeated that error. The Egyptian had simple pulleys, as evidenced by their ships. It is not known if they had capstans like the Russians.

You said “Facts and logic are a better bet”

These are the “facts and logic” why they were capable to do that magnificent Thunder-Stone job despite the obvious fact that the ground is not frozen nine months out of the year.

Moving the Thunder Stone
by means of a metallic sledge which slid over bronze spheres about 13.5 cm (6 inches) in diameter, over a track, a process similar to the later invention of ball bearings. The larger capstans took 32 men at once to turn, this just barely moving the rock. Further complicating the issue was the availability of only 100 m of track, which had to be constantly relaid.

So what are your “facts and logic” that must have been used in your view to dragging those blocks up to the top of the pyramids on ramps ?

Originally posted by Hanslune
I once moved a four ton stone with 24 students - it was back breaking labor but we did it in 2 days (120 meters)

So I am curious Hanslune, will you be so kind to tell me what kind of tools where used and the circumstances of the ground during this really good accomplishment?
Such as the conditions of the ground, was it on grass, sand, or on a road, you know that sort of things?

Originally posted by Hanslune
So Spacevisitor now that you’ve had some time to think about can you explain why 2,500 years of trade with SA, much of it during the time the Greeks and Romans and Phoenicians were about – and no one noticed – to include the South Americans and the Egyptians. More amazingly they only traded coc aine and Tobacco nothing else and more amazingly the Egyptians didn’t have to pay for it.

So what about that route – have you figured out the problem yet? When you do let me know.

Allow me to study it first, and that will obvious take some time.
Also, you must know how much time it cost me to give you or someone else a reasonable reply without writing errors and such, it are not minutes, but hours.

Originally posted by Hanslune
Explain why you reject the existence of similar (but less robust) plants in the area of Egypt? Explain why you reject the fact that the concentrations were to high to have been ingested? Explain why you reject modern contamination?

I never say that I am rejecting that, my opinion about the AE coc aine and nicotine facts is based on the discoveries of these specialists you find here?
What more evidence do you need?

www.druglibrary.org...

Originally posted by Hanslune
Scholarship. Let me explain it this way. What you are doing can be explained in this analogy. In describing the US Civil war you talk about the first two days of Gettysburg and then forget everything else – you don’t mention the third day or the rest of war. Does this give you an accurate picture of history of that conflict? Yes or no?

Do you really expect me to answer this in my opinion very unreasonable formulated question you make here?

Originally posted by Hanslune
I suspect you said no,

Obvious you suspect wrong.

Originally posted by Hanslune
so in the C & T you take one early report and then absolutely refuse to look at any information after that report, information that explains it. Sorry dudes, that is pure closedmindness, holding to that stand moves you towards crankdom.

That is your opinion.

[edit on 3/5/08 by spacevisitor]

[edit on 3/5/08 by spacevisitor]

[edit on 3/5/08 by spacevisitor]

Originally posted by 1-Cent
I'll definitely contribute something to this thread down the road but I just wanted to chime in and say how incredibly fascinating I find this subject!
This is really one of the large contributing factors in my decision to go back to university and begin down the path to getting a degree in anthropology, possibly specializing in Egyptology although I'm not quit at that cross roads yet.

That would be good. We need more people with a degree who are at the same time familiar with and open-minded towards this type of stuff.

I finished my degree in computer science a few years ago and I've been some what unhappy with the career I've gotten myself into, it just doesn't feel right for me.
Though PC's (network eng) have been a passion of mine all my life I somehow can't see myself retiring an engineer/businessman.
A lot of where my decision came from was personal curiosity, something that doesn't exist in the IT world where everything is quantified, numbered and hard coded with only one ultimately correct answer and no room for intellectual debate.

If your fascinated by something and bored by something else, thats a sure indicator of which direction you´re supposed to be going

Anyone else get as lost as I do in this subject? Theres really not enough information out there for me to read, watch or listen to. I'm dying to visit Egypt, oh man theres no where I'd rather travel to, well there and mexico to see the mayan and aztec ruins a close second place.

We´re all obsessed with the subject.

I'd like to (attempt) to
earn the written language eventually, preferably before I do inevitably make the journey out there, I think if you can actually read the inscriptions on the walls of the temples it would be infinitely more meaningful and interesting than having some under paid/board guide wave his arms at things and parrot the same lines he has 1000 times before you. I think if I had someone to do it with it wouldn't be so hard. Actually I have no idea it could be near impossible lol Has anyone given it some legit effort??

Not me, maybe others here. But its so much more inspiring to find stuff out for yourself than being given the usual program by tour-guides.

I'd like to (attempt) to learn the written language eventually, preferably before I do inevitably make the journey out there, I think if you can actually read the inscriptions on the walls of the temples it would be infinitely more meaningful and interesting than having some under paid/board guide wave his arms at things and parrot the same lines he has 1000 times before you. I think if I had someone to do it with it wouldn't be so hard. Actually I have no idea it could be near impossible lol Has anyone given it some legit effort??

You can start TODAY (and there really is no time like the present one ; ).

Wallis Budge in your man.
(Yes, he STILL is the best.)


Also, here:

Budge (downloadable books)


And a fascinating blog:

Egyptian Scribe


Good luck!


P.S. I can't believe I forgot to include THIS online edition...







[edit on 3-5-2008 by Vanitas]

Reaons to keep asking questions.



Source of Excerpts

The creation of a reliable Chronology of Ancient Egypt is a task fraught with problems

The first problem the student of Egyptian chronology faces is that the ancient Egyptians used no single system of dating, or consistent system of regnal years. They had no concept of an Era similar to Anno Domini, Anno Hajirae, or even the concept of named years like limmu used in Mesopotamia. As a result, the chronologer is forced to compile a list of pharaohs, determine the length of their reigns, and adjust for any interregnums or coregencies. This leads to other problems:

All ancient Egyptian king lists are either comprehensive but have significant gaps in their text (for example, the Turin King List), or textually complete but fail to provide a complete list of rulers, even for a short period of Egyptian history.
There is conflicting information on the same regnal period from different versions of the same text; the Egyptian historian Manetho's history of Egypt is only known by extensive references to it made by subsequent writers, such as Eusebius and Sextus Julius Africanus. Unfortunately the dates for the same pharaoh often vary substantially depending on the intermediate source.
For almost all kings of Egypt, we lack an accurate count for the length of their reigns.
Religious bias due to the Bible. This was most pervasive before the 1850s, when the figures preserved in Manetho conflicted with:
The age of the Earth as believed at the time, and
The date of the Biblical Flood.

Excerpts from this Source

There are many open problems concerning Ancient Egypt, and some of them may never be solved. Egyptian archaeology is in a state of constant transition, with much of the terminology and chronology in dispute. All archaeological record are incomplete, with countless relics and artifacts missing or destroyed. New archaeological discoveries can call into question previous conclusions about Ancient Egypt. Furthermore, there are internal problems of overall cohesion of various dynasties and there are problems reconciling the Egyptian civilization with other concurrent civilizations.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Sky,
Thank you for the info on the "time frame" of the different reigns of the different Pharohs but mostly concerning the alledged builder of the Giza Pryamid, this is why.
I believe the length of the Reign of the different Pharohs is complicated by the ? fact that often the length of time of a son of a past Pharoh would be included in the father's name and time of reign..meaning Khufu and his sons reign would be included in one lot for example a Pharoh's reign would last 400 years,,,,
- If that is so,,,the cartouche would change slightly from son to son as progress was made on the construction,, and coincides with the different cartouche's found inside the pryamid,,, and would make the time frame of the building of the Giza Pryamid over 400 years more plausable then within the time frame of one "normal" human life time. Taking into concideration ,, the first Khufu was ..probably an adult before he started his reign..so there was only say..30-40 years max to build the Giza Pryamid within in one life time (which sounds plausible) if you subscribe to the dragging stones through the desert and up ramps, and some how placed so that the stones were alined prefectly within what ,, centimeters of perfect square, and at a 52 % pitch.. which to date has gone un-matched ...replicated (the closest being what..42-46%.

To me it just sounds like a stretch,,and takes greater leap faith to accept that ..than the possible of either being able to levitate these blocks of stone.

reply to post by Skyfloating



Sky, your a complete genius. I've been doing minor research into a number of many different theories about a #load of topics... but i dont have much to guide me into what i should know, or go to next.
Im wondering if you would help me out and teach me what you know about a number of things?
Ive got a few theories of my own linking different conspiracies together, however im still a little lost.
I guess the more I think about it, the harder it is for things to sink in, lol.
Would you be willing to help me out at all?

Howdy Skyfloating trying the old, "if it's being debated it must be wrong "canard eh?

You do realize that in all scientific subjects there is 'flux' and that constant discussion is taking place? You do understand that don't you?

I mean its not like fringe theory were everything is locked down, evidenced based, with no dissent between believers.......LOL

Debate is the heart of all science.

When a new theory comes out (or new evidence comes up) - it should be vigorously looked at.

That doesn't mean its wrong. So using your criteria what is wrong with today's fringe theories?

My comment

so in the C & T you take one early report and then absolutely refuse to look at any information after that report, information that explains it.

Spacevisitors response

That is your opinion.

It would appear that is fact and not an opinion. You flat out refuse to look at the full range of information on a subject. To bad you appear to have a good mind. I do hate to see people shut down learning to protect their cherished beliefs.

So be it.

Oh since cannot figure it out I'll tell ya. If the Egyptian could sail from the Canary islands or from West Africa to SA. They then had a problem they had to get to the west coast of SA - that means three routes. Up the Amazon, then over the Andes - around to Panama, overland, rebuild a ship and go down the coast - or find there way thru the Magellan straits, or around the cape. I'll let you ponder all the difficulties with those three.... How long did it take the Necho expedition to travel around Africa -with far better naval technology and experience than the Egyptian had?

reply to post by Gweedy


Hi Gweedy,

the blind mustnt lead the blind

Im not certain about a thing and dont think I can teach you anything. But you can share what you think/believe and we can compare notes.

Originally posted by jbmitch
To me it just sounds like a stretch,,and takes greater leap faith to accept that ..than the possible of either being able to levitate these blocks of stone.

The whole field of egyptology feels, looks and sounds incongruent. Even laymen like us can see that.

Originally posted by Hanslune
Howdy Skyfloating trying the old, "if it's being debated it must be wrong "canard eh?

No, only that things are much less set in stone in this field than in, lets say math or physics.

Thats why you dont see many "fringe mathematicians" around.

[edit on 5-5-2008 by Skyfloating]

The whole field of egyptology feels, looks and sounds incongruent. Even laymen like us can see that.

So doesn't this contradict your position that everything is being controlled at a higher level and that everything is to pat? If it's being controlled at a higher level why isn't everyone reading off the same sheet of music? Why not manufacture any needed evidence? I think if you'll (if you look) look that similar states can be found in all science fields.

Thats why you dont see many "fringe mathematicians" around

Ah, there are lots of them. Some of them doing all kinds of odd math involving the pyramids, physics and other areas. Technically math isn't a science.

"Mathematics is not a science, but there are grey areas at the fringes. Mathematics is certainly a science in the broad sense of "systematic and formulated knowledge", but most people use "science" to refer only to the natural sciences. Since mathematics provides the language in which the natural sciences aspire to describe and analyse the universe, there is a natural link between mathematics and the natural sciences."

Numerology is a good example of fringe mathematics.

I once interviewed a guy with a great CV who appeared normal enough but when questioned told us he'd found a new number between 5 & 6 which he'd named after himself.......

Originally posted by Hanslune

So doesn't this contradict your position that everything is being controlled at a higher level and that everything is to pat? If it's being controlled at a higher level why isn't everyone reading off the same sheet of music? Why not manufacture any needed evidence? I think if you'll (if you look) look that similar states can be found in all science fields.

Thats only a conspiracy-theory I entertain sometimes, being on a conspiracy-site and all. In no way is that my main claim. My main claim is that there are more unknowns to egyplogy than the mainstream thinks.

I once interviewed a guy with a great CV who appeared normal enough but when questioned told us he'd found a new number between 5 & 6 which he'd named after himself.......

Good point.

Thats only a conspiracy-theory I entertain sometimes, being on a conspiracy-site and all. In no way is that my main claim. My main claim is that there are more unknowns to egyplogy than the mainstream thinks.

Only sometimes?

Originally posted by Hanslune


Only sometimes?

Yeah. Much to the dismay of conventionals.