It's that time again. We have to address the conduct in this forum.

Note to self. Don't ever, ever, dis a mason of this board. Asking for immediate probationary period.

err...I'm not sure what you mean.

Why would you warn me for making a post that didn't attack anyone, call anyone a name, or do anything other than make an observation?

Curiouser and curiouser...

Your pal,
Meat.

[edit on 31-1-2008 by mmmeat]

Here we Frickin go again.

Or

Is anyone listening?

Jeez, let's revisit the OP:

Originally posted by intrepid
This is where we are having a major problem. We are getting posts of a personal nature. Not discussing the topic but dissing a fellow member. This happens on both sides of the equation and is TOTALLY unacceptable. From this point on there will be serious consequences for those that engage in this type of posting. That may include warns, post banning and in unrelenting cases, termination of your account.

And you all are still going off on the personal BS. The options are getting reduced incrementally. Some seem not to get it. We aren't screwing around here folks. This "black eye" on ATS will come to an end. The choice is how we do it. THAT is in the hands of YOU, the members.

reply to post by jpm1602


It's nothing whatever to do with dissing Masons; it's all about everyone maintaining a certain degree of civility all around.

If you have something factual on Masonry, bring it on. Bring something verifiable. Just don't lob a turd into the pool and act surprised if someone responds in a less-than-warm-and-fuzzy manner

Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by Rockpuck

I don't hate you guys at all, I just don't really get it, lol. Either way, I personally wish people weren't so focused on more division and isolation, and more focused on unity. Imagine the good that could come if the world wasn't divided into so many factions, like race, religion, nationality, culture, etc., and lodges too I guess, lol. Everybody is usually so sure that everybody else is against them, so naturally the paranoid among us think you guys are up to no good, because they're not in on it, right?

...What would the world be? ... boring.

I would rather we slaughtered each other over petty differences, then coexist in perfect mundane harmony with no differences at all.... what a gray world that would be, and imo, not worth living in.

Celebrate unity... but also celebrate differences.

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


Oh ya.. who doesn't love a good debate? .. People seem to have this notion all Masons hate anti-Masons.... Not at all..

Its been a long while since we had some good threads though. Luckily though I am active all over ATS, not just this forum, otherwise I would have been bored out of my mind.

Originally posted by jpm1602
Note to self. Don't ever, ever, dis a mason of this board. Asking for immediate probationary period.

Should read: "Don't ever, ever, dis ANYONE of this board..."

If you want to talk Masonry, then let's do so! Start a thread and let's get to it.

Just be sure you back up facts with sources or identify opinion and conjecture as such and there should be no problem.

I reckon people participate in this (SS) forum for 4 reasons, typically:

1. To learn about secret societies and gather information about the same.

2. To learn about secret societies and share information about the same.

3. To find information and claims that fit preconcieved notions about secret societies, to the exclusion of all other information.

4. To attack, defame, accuse, insult, or otherwise annoy those of us trying to accomplish #1 and #2.

People trying to accomplish #3 I really have no use for... I tend to group them together with #4's. The preconcieved notions are nearly ALWAYS negative, and facts, reason and/or logic seem to have no effect. They insult/attack by their calling us liars when all we are doing is coming here and speaking on something we know about and trying to be voices of reason and genuinely want to help people understand something that we all deem important and beautiful, and something worth defending against baseless slander and nonsense.

Be mad at me for that if you want, but unlike some, I come here to attack no one. In fact, I come here knowing I will likely be attacked, and that's OK.

I have had enough people u2u me -- and I'm sure I'm not the only one -- who say thanks for doing what I do here; that they learned something or changed the way they think about Masonry from reading my posts, and that is worth all the ridicule that has ever been heaped on me here, and then some.

Those who appreciate our contributions -- or, at least don't hate us for offering them -- far outnumber those who don't.

I'm OK with that.

Originally posted by The Axeman
I reckon people participate in this (SS) forum for 4 reasons, typically:

1. To learn about secret societies and gather information about the same.

Your assumptions are incorrect.

Please review my contribution to this thread here.

This is a conspiracy theory/speculation website. This forum is set aside to discuss conspiracies that involve "secret societies" and prominent people who are members of such groups. This forum is not now, nor will it ever be intended as a destination to "learn" about groups such as the masons... there are countless other sites for that purpose.

Debate-I didn`t even know what debate meant before and a long time after coming to ATS.

The best examples I suppose of debate are in the competition threads,where two of opposing views hash out their points respectively,many times I`ll read there and been in awe for their example of discussing opposing beliefs yet they more often than not are very respectful to each other.

At the end others judge on a winner,though that doesn`t mean that the winner has to be necessarily right,or that the loser was wrong,but along the way we all got to read and learn a bit more of either the subject or someones beliefs.

It takes so much away when your forced to read ugly personal attacks which doesn`t add a thing to ones view,if anything it takes away for mine.

IMO personally even though I have read peoples posts who know how to debate I dont think there is enough time left in my life to get that educated, so make room for those like myself who come here that can only offer discussion and to add even when someone is skilled in debate or is educated doesn`t normally change my mind,it depends on whats written.

Some things has changed my views on individual Masons over the years of reading some SS threads which I have found to be respectful which of a org I dont trust or believe in is quite a lot,but I didn`t realize this through personal attacks or gang mentality.To be more specific I do now believe a lot of Masons join for the get together and mateship (drinks etc) and for the charity work,average Joe type guy,with who I can relate.

The gang mentality part I see it as,if a mason put themselves in a position to be opposed in a discussion by 10+ people with no support and was ridiculed and laughed etc at for having a view,then I think that individual Mason would know what Its like when someone has an opposing view to freemasonry and is why you guys hear "gang and packs" as much as you do here.

I think it would be helpful and respectful of you guys to remember that most of the time you out number and have better education as a group to have more patients with others,even though with that, it still does not make you all knowing and right.

But either way its been interesting over the years and it would be a pitty if Masons or non Masons are to be banned because of silly frustrations in SS discussion etc.There would be without doubt for mine a big problem in whoever if they believe there isn`t a need or room in themselves for improvement.

-2 cents?
See you out there

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


....Really....

Quite interesting...

Maybe I am not the only one here SO who wonders this.. but what exactly are YOUR views on Masonry? ...

We are after all being singled out here.. as the most prominent on the boards, that much may be expected.. but I seriously sense no respect what so ever...

People DO come to these boards looking for information about Secret Societies.. I see it all the time.. not just Masonry.. Just the other day a thread was started a woman looking for information on female secret societies.. This site has a very diverse group of supporters and none-supporters, and the only issues arising from are a few ignorant individuals who cannot contain themselves..

Yet I get the feeling, sir, that you do not think to highly of our organization.. maybe I am incorrect to assume such things, but by golly it just so happens I am just as human as the next fella, and I cannot discern feelings over the internet... so please, sir.. honestly.... elaborate?

And I do hope not to be chastised for my comments, my questions or concerns.. I like to think we can come together as adults. We may have had issues in the past as well, so please don't blow me off.

People come here to learn, to DENY ignorance, not embrace it.. why do I get the feeling you would sooner see the day when Masonry was banned from ATS all together?

Most humbly..

-Rock

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23

Originally posted by Rockpuck
and Applauses for those who post GOOD posts... I see very little Applauses in this forum, less then others.

I'd like to know if applauses are even given out in this forum? I spend most of my time on ATS in this forum and the NWO forum, as both of these are my personal areas of interest. The times I do get applauses is when I venture out of these forums.

Seems to me the applauses are more of an ATS click thing than actual rewards for good posts.

[edit on 31/1/08 by ConspiracyNut23]

As a mod, I have spent a lot of time in Secret Societies, particularly threads pertaining to Freemasonry. For a non-Mason, I have tried my best to familiarize myself with the many aspects of this subject. I will admit that I do not find the ritualistic aspects of the organization attractive but, philosophically speaking, I do find a "brotherhood of like-minded individuals seeking to serve and better society" appealing. Unfortunately, as I mentioned, the ritualistic aspects and the esoteric and arcane roots of Freemasonry are simply beyond me.

As far as giving out "applauses", I am sure that a number of members posting on this thread can attest to the fact that I, for one, have given out "applauses" when I felt they were merited. While every mod might have their own "standard" for this award, I look for well written posts. Posts that serve to succinctly answer questions, posts that help to diffuse contentious situations and posts that serve to clarify concepts.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Maybe I am not the only one here SO who wonders this.. but what exactly are YOUR views on Masonry? ...

It doesn't matter. My goal is to ensure ATS runs within the original spirit intended, while also within the bounds of the Terms & Conditions.

We are after all being singled out here

Not at all. Many "secret societies" are discussed other than Freemasonry within this forum. Additionally, many other forums on ATS specialize on conspiracy theories related to other groups, religions, governments or individuals.

People DO come to these boards looking for information about Secret Societies.

It happens... yes. But the intent of this forum and AboveTopSecret.com is the discussion of potential conspiracy theories, scandals, and cover-ups across the broader spectrum of our topics (with a few minor exceptions).

Yet I get the feeling, sir, that you do not think to highly of our organization.

I've never given it much thought as Freemasonry is not an area in which I've "specialized" in my years of conspiracy research. My intent here was to make it clear that this is a secret societies forum on a conspiracy theory discussion board, and negative speculation will be inevitable.


This is the environment of ATS. Many other sites will have a much more inherently friendly attitude toward Freemasonry and other groups and fraternities. Here, within ATS and amongst those who consider conspiracies throughout history, the environment will be inherently antagonistic. Just as the discussion in other forums on ATS are inherently antagonistic toward whatever administration is in the White House, religion, military/industrial complex, covert organizations, etc.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
People come here to learn, to DENY ignorance, not embrace it.. why do I get the feeling you would sooner see the day when Masonry was banned from ATS all together?

Probably for the same reasons you don't walk into a McDonalds and haughtily demand and expect to get a Whopper there.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
...What would the world be? ... boring.

Well, I never said everybody should be the same, I just think there are way too many divisions to allow our species to evolve beyond killing each other in mass numbers to solve bizarre ideological disagreements.

I would rather we slaughtered each other over petty differences, then coexist in perfect mundane harmony with no differences at all.... what a gray world that would be, and imo, not worth living in.

That kinda sucks that you feel that way, again I never said everybody should be the same, but I'd rather have mundane coexistance than mass slaughter over petty differences if I were given a choice...

Celebrate unity... but also celebrate differences.

I agree. And there were plenty of differences for us to celebrate before we created so many more, everybody else is our enemy by default.

reply to post by benevolent tyrant


Thank you for your input BT.

Like Cuhail, I was originally introduced to Masonry via David Icke, Jim Marrs and other conspiracy theorists. ATS has helped me see where these authors were wrong regarding the institution, and I have since become quite interested by its rituals and symbols. Although, as an atheist, i would never be able to join unless I lied about my religious beliefs.

The reason I mention applauses in this forum is because I had planned to write a series of "final go to" articles regarding some conspiratorial aspects of Masonry. (In the same vein as Gazrok's threads on Roswell, Betty Hill, and the Bentwaters incident in the UFO/Alien forum). My first article, The Case for the Masonic Dollar Bill received a number of kudos from fellow ATSers, but I must admit I was a tad peeved that none of the staff felt it deserved any applause. Ex-Mod Nygdan usually noticed these kind of contributions and rewarded accordingly.

IMO, this forum desperately needs good conspiratorial threads. I will attempt to do so again in the near future. I'm glad to see we have two fresh MODs who'll be going over this forum. Hopefully my work (or anyone's) will not go unnoticed next time.

Personally, I feel a good, well-researched OP usually eliminates a lot of anti/pro mason bickering.

reply to post by benevolent tyrant


I think the standard for what gets an applause is very varied. I just posted a thread with pages of research and peer reviewed sources from academic journals with academic analysis that is on par with something I'd write for a graduate program on short notice (I only spent a few hours instead of days on it), and I can guarantee I won't get an applause. I'm not an "applause whore," so I really don't care, but I just thought I'd point out that standards for what gets an applause is not always "well written posts that contribute." It often seems to be those who are most witty, or who most ideologically agree with those who can give applause.

Don't get me wrong. I'm fine with that - because I personally post for fun, and don't care about points. But I do realize that some people do, so I see why they are concerned.

On a different topic:

I *do* find it amusing that antagonistic threads against masonry are welcomed, but any posting of other fraternity rituals is not allowed. It seems as though ATS is very hostile toward masonry - which is fine, if the hostility was equal - but *VERY* friendly to college fraternities.

[edit on 1-2-2008 by LightinDarkness]

Originally posted by LightinDarkness
I *do* find it amusing that antagonistic threads against masonry are welcomed, but any posting of other fraternity rituals is not allowed.

I believe one of these fraternities had threatened ATS with legal action for allowing copyrighted rituals to be posted on the board.

The only college fraternity I care about with any possibility of being conspiratorial would be Skull and Bones. To my knowledge, ATS has never censored anything regarding S&B.

BTW, I recently checked out The Good Shepherd. A very conspiratorial movie very much in line with the content of these forums. (including S&B rituals)

reply to post by LightinDarkness


You must not read these threads. Twitchy had his thread shut down because he couldn't contribute anything except near trolling posts. He now feels that all the mods are pro-masons. You seem to think the very opposite because ATS won't recognize you as the victim of anti-mason abuse.

Tell me, as someone that is really and truthfully impartial here, is there a difference between you and twitchy? Do you remember the original Star Trek where the two guys were locked in mortal combat because each thought the other had the wrong side of his face colored white/black? I see that here.

He's a victim, you're a victim, and ATS and the mods are persecuting you both equally, so what's to complain about?

Originally posted by NGC2736
Twitchy had his thread shut down because he couldn't contribute anything except near trolling posts. He now feels that all the mods are pro-masons.

I could personally do without that crap. You know better. With all this new staff being added, I wonder if we are including those who aren't exactly objective, seeing a post like this from a New Member And A Mod concerns me.

[edit on 1-2-2008 by twitchy]

reply to post by twitchy


I assure you that the feeling is mutual.