It's that time again. We have to address the conduct in this forum.

IMPORTANT ADMINISTRATION UPDATE February 1, 2008

Clarification #1, We are Conspiracy Theorists

Clarification #2, Some are not getting it

Let's keep it impersonal

Secret Societies is a forum on Abovetopsecret. It is not above the T&C. These are rules that everyone agrees to when registering. Lately these have been broached frequently. Let's look at some of the rules:

1). Posting: You will not post any material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate.

2) Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive, hateful and/or racist manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.

There's 2 sides to this in this forum. As to #1 some new members come here and have questions about certain groups like the Masons. Are they posting "knowingly false" info? No, they are posting to gain info. "We've discussed this many times" and then a dog pile helps no one. A little patience goes a long way. Ask yourselves why you are here. To share info? Good, do so.

Secondly, there are some that are just out to mess with said groups. Let the staff handle those that would disrupt the forum for whatever reason. Be it point trolling or whatever. That is what we are here for.

The meat of the subject

This is where we are having a major problem. We are getting posts of a personal nature. Not discussing the topic but dissing a fellow member. This happens on both sides of the equation and is TOTALLY unacceptable. From this point on there will be serious consequences for those that engage in this type of posting. That may include warns, post banning and in unrelenting cases, termination of your account.

ATS is a serious board discussing alternative topics. We will no longer allow a few members to tarnish our(that's you and me) site. Discuss the topics, not each other. This is not negotiable. There will be strict adherence of the rules henceforth. It's unfortunate that it had to come to this but the site comes before any given member. Guide yourselves accordingly.


[edit on 1-2-2008 by SkepticOverlord]

reply to post by intrepid


Excellent points. The Brethren should try and be a bit more patient, especially with new comers, and ignore those that agitate or troll.. its baiting, and it leads nowhere in discussions.

reply to post by intrepid


I do not see why it is unreasonable to expect new members to search before posting questions that have been covered many times. I know I have personally had a few things come to mind before and searched, and found what I was looking for. I do not see the need to continually create new threads on issues that are exact rehashes of old threads.

It is especially difficult when the way questions are posed presuppose something that is widely known to be factually incorrect - while it is true that someone may genuinely be posting from ignorance and not know any better, so far the cases I have seen tend to be people who are intentionally trying to agitate one group or another. What I mean by that is they post under the guise of just having a innocent question asked, and when it is answered politely and links are provided the poster(s) in question post again and dismiss everything that was provided to them summarily by calling it a "lie" or something like it.

To me, I personally have not yet seen anyone "dog piling" a thread. If there is wide agreement among all sides on something, why is that considered dog piling? Of course, if it happens, it shouldn't. So far I haven't seen it though..but I haven't read all the threads either.

Obviously though I am in complete agreement that the personal attacks need to stop (not that my opinion matters on this, but just thought I'd state it anyways). Too many threads are being derailed and turning into personal insult fights.

That is just my opinion. Your the boss . Or..one of them

[edit on 30-1-2008 by LightinDarkness]

I have a specific question concerning posting threads on similar topics. I was going to post a news source topic thread today on "the real price of Gold". I do a search and up pops a thread named exactly that.It was created in 2003. The lead post has dead and irrelevant links and the discussion there-only a couple of posts is related to those links. Am I going to get hounded for creating a new thread? Should I uselessly tag onto this bad dead thread? That doesnt make sense to me, I would like to get some feed back here. Thank You.

reply to post by ItsHumanNature


Lol.. wrong forum to ask that mate, there is a section called Board&Business (or something like that?) .. or you could U2U a Mod.

Anyways, to answer the question make sure you make a new name for the thread or you will loose your work you type submitting a thread with the same title (iv done it, it sucks big time) .. so make sure to save your work first, secondly, as long as the thread is dead, and has not had activity, you could make the same topic if you have a personalized view your submitting.

Good to see your at least checking first! So many times 10 of the same threads go on at the same time.

Question answered. Thank you.

[edit on 30-1-2008 by ItsHumanNature]

Originally posted by intrepid
It's that time again. We have to address the conduct in this forum.

Thanks for raising this Intrepid, but it's a shame you had to. The sad fact is - there are a number of threads that as an ATS member I won't post on, because I quite simply don't want to be associated in any way with the silliness. I'm saddened for ATS and the people who have worked hard to make it the excellent discussion forum that it is.

As a freemason who has been on this site a while I've seen a fair bit of nonsense posted about the fraternity, but there comes a point where one has to be circumspect about the whole thing. Sometimes it is better to just "walk away" - no, really, it is, because the alternative is a downward spiral which serves no-one's best interests.

The last time things got this bad a number of members were banned. I am seriously quite certain it will happen again if things don't improve, and then some people who love to post on ATS won't be able to any more. Food for thought.

....K....

Good thing I answered your question. Your welcome, by the way.

Originally posted by LightinDarkness
reply to post by intrepid

 

Obviously though I am in complete agreement that the personal attacks need to stop (not that my opinion matters on this, but just thought I'd state it anyways). Too many threads are being derailed and turning into personal insult fights.

That is just my opinion. Your the boss

. Or..one of them

[edit on 30-1-2008 by LightinDarkness]

LiD, It really does matter, your opinion. Truely. But to us, the Mods, S-Mods, and Admins, ya have to multiply that by some 50,000. To me, it's the personal attacks and insults that dump sand in the gears of a fine, fine machine.
I totally agree with the search function utilization. My favorite advice to new members is read 75% MORE than you post. I learned it the hard way. Lexion took me all over the schoolyard one day because, had I just LOOKED for the topic before I posted, I wouldn't of looked like the fool I did.
Ignorance is curable with time and a little bit of patience. Those who don't know, ask, to cure their ignorance. Those who know, teach, to pass on the knowledge. Those who distract, attack, to keep those who'd learn and those who'd teach, from continuing the lesson at all.
It ticks me off too, because, I'm the student AND the teacher AND one of the Janitorial crew who can't teach and learn because we're cleaning all the dang classrooms!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To the OT in general
I hate seeing people post-banned. It sucks. Most times it's frustration with something. Well, that frustration is a personal accountability. We can't fix your anxiety. You can fix it by stepping back. Deep breath, Thrash Metal break in the basement, and good 10 minutes sitting on the toilet with a Popular Mechanics. I get frustrated. I don't bring it here, I take it somewhere else. I like it here and I won't put that on a limb because I'm having a bad day with Newbie # 35278.

Rant? Almost.
See ya out there.
Cuhail

Whats this about you getting frustrated on the toilet?

Post bans are a good way to let a member chillax a bit, its always better then an all out ban anyways, and it should let you know "hey I got post banned.. I must be doing something wrong" .. warns should be handed out for posts hat break the T&C .. and Applauses for those who post GOOD posts... I see very little Applauses in this forum, less then others. That goes for both Masons, anti Masons or any other person on the forum.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Well, I was Post banned for 2 months by The Vagabond for some posts that I made in a particular S. African thread.
I refused to admit any wrong doing, still do to0 but I promised intrepid in a U2U that I would use better discretion in any future posts if I'm given a reprieve.
I was granted parole after an apparent meeting of the mod minds
I will still give my opinion, thats just who I am but I'll just have to choose my words a little more carefully now
BTW, Thanks intrepid

reply to post by Rockpuck



Yeah, maybe I could of worded that different. Frustrated on the toilet!


I want to hold the record for giving out the most applause. What sucks is that it'll never happen. I make people earn 'em. I want to feel good about giving them out, so, I wait for the good ones. I think I threw one or two your way in the War on Terror Forum. You advanced the OT and made it better than it was before you posted. That's applause-worthy in my book. I look for it, but, I have to look for all the other stuff to.
I'll keep up in the SS forums more. There's a lot to learn for us ignorant to the Genre.

Cuhail

Originally posted by Cuhail You advanced the OT and made it better than it was before you posted. That's applause-worthy in my book. I look for it, but, I have to look for all the other stuff to.
I'll keep up in the SS forums more. There's a lot to learn for us ignorant to the Genre.

My vote goes to Axeman for his concise and well researched posts in the 'Interesting place to find a Masonic obelisk' thread. Excellent work once again on his part and an example for us all to follow.

Edit to add: I think ConspiracyNut23 deserves some praise as well for his well thought our replies in the same thread.

[edit on 31-1-2008 by AugustusMasonicus]

Being one of the more auspicious culprits behind this problem, I apologise for my own behavior in the SS forum. The personal attacks have been a problem, I'm certainly no exception to it, and it's something I will try refrain from in the future.
Let it be known also, however, that it's a conflict that I will not shy away from, and I will not apologise for my anti-masonic position or threads here on ATS or in any other aspect of my life. Believe it or not, at one point in American History, Anti-Masonry was a noble cause, and a successful political institution, right up to the Civil War that is. History has it's ommissions, and rebirths.

Another rule I think we should look at which is perhaps missing from the OP...
2d.) Forum Gangs: You will not engaged in an organized collaboration with other members to disrupt thread topics or interrupt the flow of normal collaborative discussion. Doing so will result in immediate termination of posting privileges.
I can't imagine a more befitting description of the very purpose and fucntion of this so called noble institution than Organized Collaboration. I submit to you gentle folk that the organizations of Freemasonry are by their very nature, an inherent affront to this rule.
My apologies to all the Freemasons on this board, I despise your institution, but I've been objectionable and personal at times. Sorry.

I beleive it is posts like the above that are exactly the the kind of problem that needs to be dealt with.

Originally posted by intrepid
2) Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive, hateful and/or racist manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.

Contrast that with what has just been said:

Originally posted by twitchy
I despise your institution

Is it little wonder that threads in this forum devolve into what they have?

I really do feel for those who so passionately despise an institution which they have never joined, and has never actually touched their life in a negative way. We live in a world with real evil, with things that are worthy of being despised. These are things both masons and anti-masons agree should be despised: genocide, famine, etc. But yet some would still choose - for reasons beyond me - to direct what almost borders on hatred to an entire institution.

It is ironic that people like twitchy give masons so much power over him. You have imbued members of the fraternity with fantastical power and authority that even the most evil mason could only dream of. In the rush to rationalize your reasons for despising the institutions and by obvious extension we the members, it is necessary for you to not only demonize millions of people, but to make them out to be immensely powerful beyond their wildest dreams.

I must point out this has an interesting parallel. Is there anywhere else in history where people demonized millions of other people based on a single characteristic, and based on this characteristic those people were given immense power in the minds of those who hated them? A people who, thorugh this demonization and imbuing of false power, were blamed for being responsible somehow for a large portion of the world's problems? I'll give you a hint: World War II.

Twitchy, you give the fraternity enough power to frighten even me. But I must confess - I am terrified of you and the sheer passionate hatred you seem to expouse toward the institution and its members. This road is eerily similar to another path taken in the not-so-distant past, and nothing good came of.

[edit on 31-1-2008 by LightinDarkness]

Originally posted by LightinDarkness
I must point out this has an interesting parallel. Is there anywhere else in history where people demonized millions of people based on a single characteristic, where based on this characteristic those people were given immense power in the minds of those who hated them? A people who, thorugh this demonization and imbuing of false power, were blamed for being responsible somehow for a large portion of the world's problems? I'll give you a hint: World War II.

There it is, every time, the association is made that easily. Equating Anti-Masonry to Anti-Semitism... Why don't you just say the word Nazi, post us a link to Anne Frank's Diary, and spare us the ambiguities.


Just thought I'd add a thought...
Freemasonry is illegal in many parts of the world. Which parts you ask? Islamic Countries, where by no cooincidence, Finance and Interest and Zionism are culturally frowned upon as well. If Freemasonry were such a noble institution, the world would have embraced it. Instead, indigenous people the world round and all through time have resisted it, often to their undoing. Usuary is not charity, and charity is not so noble when it's employed in the arts of deception and labeled 'giving BACK to the community'. Freemasonry is little more than a Kabbalist good ole boy system, and all those little harmless handshakes and nods and winks has empowered the 'enlightened' few at the expense of the rightful soverignty of the Democratic Principle.

[edit on 31-1-2008 by twitchy]

Originally posted by Rockpuck
and Applauses for those who post GOOD posts... I see very little Applauses in this forum, less then others.

I'd like to know if applauses are even given out in this forum? I spend most of my time on ATS in this forum and the NWO forum, as both of these are my personal areas of interest. The times I do get applauses is when I venture out of these forums.

Seems to me the applauses are more of an ATS click thing than actual rewards for good posts.

[edit on 31/1/08 by ConspiracyNut23]

In response to twitchy:

You see? How can anyone expect anyone to talk with you with this sort of seething hatred? Would you care to describe how it is that your views do not parallel to being Anti-Semitic in nature? In other words, hatred of an entire group of people based on a characteristic, from which you imbue them with fantastical power and blame them for the world's problems?

Do you care to cite a country that bans masonry - any country? And why exactly - if you can find one - do you like that? Do you enjoy suppressing peoples freedom of association? How unsurprising. As for this rant about Zionism and Masonry, your grasping for straws. It's simply factually wrong.

Your composition fallacy is invalid: masonry is truly international, but it doesn't take something being a part of many cultures to give it value. It is non-sensical to think that the only "good" things are the things each individual culture comes up with. I suppose cures for numerous diseases - made by individual cultures - are evil because not every culture came up for their own cure.

Freemasonry is illegal in many parts of the world. Which parts you ask? Islamic Countries, where by no cooincidence, Finance and Interest and Zionism are culturally frowned upon as well. If Freemasonry were such a noble institution, the world would have embraced it. Instead, indigenous people the world round and all through time have resisted it, often to their undoing. Usuary is not charity, and charity is not so noble when it's employed in the arts of deception and labeled 'giving BACK to the community'. Freemasonry is little more than a Kabbalist good ole boy system, and all those little harmless handshakes and nods and winks has empowered the 'enlightened' few at the expense of the rightful soverignty of the Democratic Principle.

I think this has provides a helpful demonstration about why so many of the threads around here devolve. How can you argue with someone like this? In the above statement above you see statement after statement of things which are factually incorrect, logical fallacies, and words used intentionally to bait people. There is NOTHING in this entire paragraph that is factually correct, from the first statement to the last. Twitchy knows this, of course, but he is intentionally baiting because he has already told us that he hates the entire institution of masonry and its members. This is not a case of someone actually interested in finding out the truth, this is a case of someone who is interested in baiting and having his own narrow worldview confirmed.

How can we possibly deny ignorance with people like this?

Small wonder such tactics cause derision.

[edit on 31-1-2008 by LightinDarkness]

Originally posted by twitchy

Believe it or not, at one point in American History, Anti-Masonry was a noble cause, and a successful political institution, right up to the Civil War that is. History has it's ommissions, and rebirths.

Eliminating human suffering is a noble cause.Promoting ignorance based upon Levi and Taxil is far from noble.At that point in time, the common hoaxes may not have been actually known to be hoaxes, so the negative opinions were most likely held because of legitimate ignorance (not knowing facts) on behalf of those involved in opposition to Freemasonry.Today with facts available and any "Masonic mystery" available with a few minutes of google, willingly believing fallacies is just sad.

I can't imagine a more befitting description of the very purpose and fucntion of this so called noble institution than Organized Collaboration. I submit to you gentle folk that the organizations of Freemasonry are by their very nature, an inherent affront to this rule.

So you are saying that you honestly believe that we have some massive Masonic network that collaborates on ATS to post on threads, or collaborates to post on these forums?Thanks for the credit, but in reality I can't get more than 10 people to help with a spaghetti dinner at my lodge, with that level of organization, "controlling" anything is pretty unlikely.

There it is, every time, the association is made that easily. Equating Anti-Masonry to Anti-Semitism... Why don't you just say the word Nazi, post us a link to Anne Frank's Diary, and spare us the ambiguities.

I bet that joke about someone who narrowly escaped the holocaust was
especially hilarious to anyone here who may have had relatives that died in concentration camps.

Just thought I'd add a thought...
Freemasonry is illegal in many parts of the world. Which parts you ask? Islamic Countries, where by no cooincidence, Finance and Interest and Zionism are culturally frowned upon as well. If Freemasonry were such a noble institution, the world would have embraced it. Instead, indigenous people the world round and all through time have resisted it, often to their undoing. Usuary is not charity, and charity is not so noble when it's employed in the arts of deception and labeled 'giving BACK to the community'. Freemasonry is little more than a Kabbalist good ole boy system, and all those little harmless handshakes and nods and winks has empowered the 'enlightened' few at the expense of the rightful soverignty of the Democratic Principle.

More antisemitic rantings from you, what a surprise, whats even more surprising is that you knowingly post false and racist trash on a thread where this is posted above.

1). Posting: You will not post any material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate.


2) Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive, hateful and/or racist manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.

reply to post by intrepid


Thanks, man. Lately, it was beginning to go through the gutter.