God's Warriors??

reply to post by Clearskies


Those two are excellent articles that explain what was going on. No rape, child slavery, or pedophilia going on. Too bad the others couldn't read the articles or understand them because they would see the "child raping sadist" accusations are utterly false. Well, at least they left us with a compliment although it was no doubt intended not to be one. You and I are our Father's children. I'll say Amen to that.

reply to post by AshleyD


Amen!!!

reply to post by AshleyD


I have read all that absurd nonsense many times and it is what is called 'lies'. Also, your 'father' was a devil. You so clearly have never opened a bible to the OT and read one word beyond "In the beginning". No one could read it and remain that dense unless they happen to like filth and rape.

reply to post by Clearskies


Here is a link and a partial section of the Jewish Talmud which has always been part of Judaism...[snip]


*Off topic comments removed*

[edit on 27-1-2008 by dbates]

Please stay on topic. As a reminder, this is what is being discussed in this thread.

So i been seeing a lot of Documentary like Jesus Camp and now on CNN theres a show called God's Warriors about Christians, Muslim and Jewish "Warriors". Whats excaly is the point of a Christan "warrior" and what would that mean for people that arnt Christians living in America

reply to post by AshleyD


Well, speaking for myself, I WAS a big-time Christian sort. My case wasn't so much a sudden epiphany of "the error of my ways" so much as the discovery of something that made way more sense to me. Since then, though, i have noted several errors in Christian theology.

Why do you need to be "saved"? Because god cursed Adam and Eve for their knowing defiance of the one rule he set before them; Do not eat from the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

Why did that break the rule? because the adversary, Satan, once Lucifer, seduces them into defying the will of god. What we find later in the books, is that Satan, despite being man's adversary, is still fully under god's control - as an angel, fallen or no, he has no free will. All he does is with the allowance of god.

So mankind bears this original sin for generations, with God setting down ever-more complex rules for how to handle it as the ages pass. First the ten commandments. Then full-on Levitical law. Then some of the head-scratchers we see out of Hosea and those other later books ("I curse your pillows!" is a good one)

So to recap. We have mankind committing the Big Sin against god, under the instruction of a being under the command of god. This god then makes new demands to make up for that sin, and those who fail to meet the demands are considered ever more sinful.

But God still wants to remove this sin he cursed mankind with. Here's where it gets really odd. Rather than waving his big omnipotent hand and going "I forgive you, kids, come on home" and solving the whole problem just like that, what's god do? God decides he needs to incarnate into a human body, vanish for thirty-three years, then come back to teach a somewhat revised version of the Tanakh, then arrange his own scourging and sacrifice. A new demand is made - you will be forgiven of the sin I forced upon you if you worship me as I am now.

All this, to me, seems rather like a divine protection racket. "I hire the gang to beat the crap out of your store, and you'll pay me to not send them after you"

Here's what I could find about the pillows in Ezekiel;
The key, many times to understanding the bible is to try to understand the context.
"The meanings of the terms “pillows” and “kerchiefs” are unclear. Some commentaries suggest that a better translation of “pillows” (Hebrew: keceth [#3704]) is “fillets” or “headbands.” They believe that “kerchiefs” (Hebrew: micpacthath [#4556]) is a reference to “long veils.” A long veil secured by a headband is an accurate description of part of the attire of members of certain female religious orders.

Other sources interpret “pillows” and “kerchiefs” to symbolize the soothing, feminine nature of the religion espoused and promoted by these false prophetesses. Many commentators believe that the use of these terms in the original Hebrew is in a merely figurative sense. The “pillows” are a reference to these women attempting to cover God’s hands, and thus conceal His power to rebuke sin. The “kerchiefs” picture the veil of spiritual blindness (II Cor. 4:4) that they cast over their devotees. The term “magic bands,” as it is translated in some English versions of the Bible, is refuted by certain Hebrew scholars." David C. Pack

I'll be back in a minute....

O.K.,
Walkingfox, it's not as complicated as you think.

Sin entered the Garden, God worked with his people for about 4,000 years, until Jeshua came to fulfill ALL salvation.

[edit on 27-1-2008 by Clearskies]

reply to post by dbates


Sorry about the off topic comments, but I had enough of the 'witnessing' and offers of prayer that were not solicited.

I watched the CNN special and was sickened for days. What this means to anyone who is not a christian is simply discrimination. Each one of those major religions believe they are the real children of god and like their god, they feel it is their duty to convert others one way or another. You could see the hostility and hate in many of those interviewed. As some of them said, god would destroy the infidels in the end anyway so if they had to fight here and now they were willing to do so.

The really sad thing is each person on the planet will be in the middle of these evil 'holy wars' whether we want it or not. Our lands, cities and lives will be on the line for manmade religions of insane people who still worship man-created archaic deities. Religion kills and destroys and history proves that fact. Hitler was a devout catholic/christian!

1. Pillows: Pillows was a mistranslation for the Hebrew word meaning amulet or magic charm. The word is a lot more clear in the original Hebrew and even the more accurately translated NIV as magic charms. See: HERE and HERE. That is what we call investigating textual criticism.

2. The Law: The Law, judges, and kings were demanded by the people. Secondly, the law was never supposed to be permanent. Lastly, it is explicitly stated the law was a foreshadowing to the future Messiah and one of the main purposes of the law is to show that "works" would never be the eternal answer and man would never be able to follow them perfectly.

3. Sin atonement? A perfect God? Sin separates us from God? Prophetic and symbolic foreshadowing? Sin = degeneration? Dude. I think I learned that at the age of five in Sunday School.

4. Hiring the gang. No, actually. We chose. For some reason our society murdered the concepts "personal responsibility" and "personal accountability" in the past few decades. Even though we dug and continue to dig our own hole, God stepped down from His place to fix our goofs.

And then to tie it all into the O.P. so this won't be considered off topic. It comes down to the same thing. Salvation isn't something we do neither is being a warrior for God. Salvation is a free gift offered to everyone. All we have to do is accept. We are to engage in spiritual warfare (like prayer) but not physical warfare for God's sake because He doesn't need it. Just like Salvation is in His hands, so are all things. Again, He says be still and know that He is God and He is in control and the one who will work all things out to the benefit of those that love Him. Be it salvation in eternity or the temporary trials of this life.

wowowowowow.....hold on .....hang on...... the links provided about the rape and murder from AshleyD..... are meant to resolve the what's said in the bible...... LOLOLOL.........

Firstly..... I don't like being the only one doing this..... Someone should be smart enough to look at those links and sniff out the BS..... It looks like it's up to me....

The person(s) who wrote up this stuff, has no clue what the (….) they’re talking about….

www.christian-thinktank.com...

the accusation that these girls were for “sex slave” purposes contradicts what we know about the culture and about the event

They’re trying to say that the bible is wrong on stuff like sex slaves….well, pardon me…..but I thought the bible was never wrong, it was the word of god……if it says something like these women are sex slaves and then someone comes across the bible and says these women couldn’t have been sex slaves according to the laws and traditions of the culture, then the bible has to be wrong…… without even knowing it, a Christian is try to disregard what the bible says in some accounts like murder and rape…..but still defending everything else said in the bible as true……

People….you can’t use quotes from the bible and say some parts are wrong…..and then use other parts like prophesy’s and say they’re right because they in the bible…..either you accept everything in the bible is 100% true….or none of it….not to mention the bible contradicts itself over and over again…..lol…….




[edit on 27-1-2008 by andre18]

Originally posted by AshleyD
And then to tie it all into the O.P. so this won't be considered off topic. It comes down to the same thing. Salvation isn't something we do neither is being a warrior for God. Salvation is a free gift offered to everyone. All we have to do is accept. We are to engage in spiritual warfare (like prayer) but not physical warfare for God's sake because He doesn't need it. Just like Salvation is in His hands, so are all things. Again, He says be still and know that He is God and He is in control and the one who will work all things out to the benefit of those that love Him. Be it salvation in eternity or the temporary trials of this life.

And yet there are men and women, arming themselves, preparing for a literal war against those they choose to label as "unbelievers. You can go on about what your religion "really" believes, but the facts are on the table.

1) They want to kill us
2) You're preaching to us about how they should behave, rather than preaching to them.

Now, you can spend your time arguing with a self-admitted and joyous heathen with no chance of converting, or you can go out and try to re-convert the psychos out there who see Christianity as a bloodsport.

Hell, I'll even call in some favors to give you some "outside help" if you decide to do that.

Originally posted by andre18
They’re trying to say that the bible is wrong on stuff like sex slaves….well, pardon me…..but I thought the bible was never wrong, it was the word of god……

Er... I think you mistook the author of that article quoting the question one of his readers submitted. That isn't in the Bible. It never says they are sex slaves. Not in the original Hebrew. Not in the English translations.

Hell, I'll even call in some favors to give you some "outside help" if you decide to do that.

Send them my way. But of course, I preach against it on my website at well. They don't listen to me there either.

reply to post by AshleyD


I'm curious. You're fluent in ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, and have unrestricted access to the texts in question in these languages? Out of curiosity, do you have access to and fluency with Coptic and Arabic Christian manuscripts? These would be far closer to the ancient Hebrew and Aramaic without the clunky attempts at reconstruction.

reply to post by AshleyD


lol don't even try........no matter how many times you attempt to defend the bible, being gay is a sin, will always come back to haunt you......

It is one of the most ridiculous versus in the bible.......You will never ever, ever, ever, ever......ever be able to come up with a solution to this........just give up while you're....well, you're not even ahead are you...lol




[edit on 28-1-2008 by andre18]

The Bobbsey Twins are quick to reply!

WF: No, I'm not fluent in any of them. I use lexicons for specific words and phrases and own copies of Greek-English NT and Hebrew-English OT that offer split scripts. Not perfect but it beats going on a 400 year old Middle English translation. You can criticize that if you wish but I'm not using the KJV like you seem to be and am at least getting as close to the source as possible for my knowledge. Ask a rabbi if you don't understand. They're also going to say those women were not sex slaves. They were assimilated into society exactly as the article explained and why but everyone loves to yell out "sex slaves!" even though there is no internal evidence stating this.

Andre: There comes a point in every forum user's life when they must say, "this person and their arguments really aren't worth debating." Maybe it's because they've been answered a million times. Maybe because they know the person is only trolling. Maybe because it would be like Einstein discussing quantum theories with a four year old. For whatever reason, I have reached that epiphany with you on your last thread.

reply to post by AshleyD


I ask 'cause you're going on as if you're a linquistic expert, there.

And let me break it down to you.

The Israelites went to war.
Killed the men and boys
Kidnapped the women and girls
And "married" them.

If I were to kill your male relatives, kidnap you, and give you to one of my buddies as a "wife" the news would report you as being used as a sex slave, no matter how nicely he treated you.

And, lacking blonde curls and big rosy cheeks, and having only one sibling, I can't be a Bobbsey Twin!

[edit on 28-1-2008 by TheWalkingFox]

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


As others have pointed out, what happened with them was in stark contrast with other "war rules" of the ANE. And that was to wipe out everyone without mercy. In this instance, one part of the population was spared. It still sounds horrendous to us and our values but it would be like a king removing children out of a country before invading it. These girls were to be raised as daughter in society and would eventually marry into society. I don't remember anymore but some speculate the males were not spared in the event they would avenge their clans when they came of age. Still not very comforting to our modern liberal minds but that is how it happened. And for some reason, everyone seems to forget what these clans were doing to the Hebrews that brought on this attack in the first place. It wasn't just for "land." The Hebrews were also constantly being invaded, kidnapped as slaves, tortured, and even used as sacrifices later on. Their retaliation was something we call war.

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

As others have pointed out, what happened with them was in stark contrast with other "war rules" of the ANE. And that was to wipe out everyone without mercy. In this instance, one part of the population was spared. It still sounds horrendous to us and our values but it would be like a king removing children out of a country before invading it. These girls were to be raised as daughter in society and would eventually marry into society. I don't remember anymore but some speculate the males were not spared in the event they would avenge their clans when they came of age. Still not very comforting to our modern liberal minds but that is how it happened. And for some reason, everyone seems to forget what these clans were doing to the Hebrews that brought on this attack in the first place. It wasn't just for "land." The Hebrews were also constantly being invaded, kidnapped as slaves, tortured, and even used as sacrifices later on. Their retaliation was something we call war.

Wonderful. A kinder, gentler genocide. Your huggy, squishy platitudes aside, the facts are, these women most certainly did not want to become some foreign dude's third or fourth concubine under the very real threat of death. It was not a willing choice. There was no "Well, you can marry us, or you're free to go."

They were sex slaves. That's the bald damn reality of it, and you can paint it up to look as pretty as you like, but it's not going to change the facts of the matter.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Your ignorance of the O.T. laws as well as the A.N.E. is astounding. According to the laws, they could have refused. If they were not old enough to understand, they could have once they came of age. I thought you knew all this stuff?