Interesting Place to Find a Masonic Obelisk

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Why do you think the Trinity Memorial is Masonic?

Oh! Oh! I know the answer to that one!

It's not!

What do I win?

Your pal,
Meat.

Originally posted by mmmeat


What do I win?

A free, lifetime subscription to Above Top Secret, and a Handy Dandy Housewife Helper. And before you ask, it can core a apple.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by mmmeat


What do I win?

A free, lifetime subscription to Above Top Secret, and a Handy Dandy Housewife Helper. And before you ask, it can core a apple.

Dammit!

And here I was hoping for the title "Threadkiller!" which I thought for sure was in briefcase number 12!

Your pal,
Meat.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Why do you think the Trinity Memorial is Masonic?

Well let's just pick an obelisk, say the Vance Memorial in my hometown of Downtown Asheville NC, do a little digging, and see if it's masonic...

www.jewishtourofthecarolinas.org...
TWO MONUMENTS TO THE JEWS' BEST FRIEND
The center of Asheville, NC, is dominated by an immense monument to Zebulon Baird Vance, NC governor, Freemason, U.S. senator and Charlotte attorney. Considered best friend of Jewish people in Carolinas in l9th century. Wrote and delivered his lecture, The Scattered Nation, praising the Jewish people and their faith to national audiences over many years. For decades B'nai B'rith and United Daughters of the Confederacy conducted annual services at this monument. Broadway and Patton Avenue.

www.mountainx.com...
Asheville’s monument to tolerance
Confederates, Jews join hands on Vance's birthday
by Steve Rasmussen in Vol. 9 / Iss. 39 on 05/07/2003

Zebulon B. Vance spoke movingly and influentially against what he called "the wickedness and the folly of intolerance."

Rising skyward from the busy downtown crossroads of this Appalachian mountain town is an elegant spire of rough-hewn granite: the Vance Monument. Recently, Asheville's answer to the Washington Monument has been a focal point for controversy over nation-sized issues of war and freedom of speech, after police and city officials clamped down on the peace protests that, for months, had swirled around this memorial to North Carolina's own reluctant rebel.

The Vance Monument is more than just a shrine to a Civil War-era governor; more, even, than a forum for Asheville's remarkably diverse political views. Ever since the winter solstice day in 1897 when its cornerstone was laid (in a rare public Masonic ritual) to honor the Confederate Christian who stood up for the Jews, the monument has symbolized that most controversial of First Amendment rights: freedom of religion.

toto.lib.unca.edu...
Wittowsky and Vance and possibly Pack were all members of the Freemasons. Vance, as noted earlier, was a member of the Mt. Hermon Lodge #118 in Asheville, which was eventually in 1913, located in the Richard Sharp Smith building, the Scottish Rites building, on the corner of Broadway and Woodfin...
The seed money for the Zebulon Baird Vance Monument is one of George Willis Pack's most intriguing donations to the city of Asheville. The tall obelisk constructed of grey granite was completed some four years following the death of Governor Zebulon Vance (1830-1894), a Weaverville native. Its location in Court House Square was agreed to by the subscribers and the people of Asheville and local architect, Richard Sharp Smith was contracted to design the monument. Over the years it has seen varying amounts of attention from those who use the square. Annually, for many years, a ceremony was held at the foot of the obelisk to remember Vance and his many contributions to North Carolina. The monument also alludes to many of the things that were important in Vance' life. The Egyptian obelisks with their cryptic hieroglyphs is referenced in the shape of the monument. Rulers throughout the world brought many of the Egyptian monuments back as trophies of their wars. The nineteenth century had a particular fascination with Egypt and the literature of the day is filled with references to all things Egyptian. Egyptian symbolism also figures prominently in the lore of the Freemason. Vance was a life-long Mason and participated in the Mt. Hermon Lodge #118 l in Asheville, as did many of Asheville's leading citizens.

The Vance memorial in Asheville NC was paid for by, dedicated and consecrated by, erected by, and in honor of Freemasons. For sure.
I bet if you have a big obelisk right SQUARE in the middle of your town, you are going to find a similar Masonic affiliation. Don't take my word for it, look into it.

I'm willing to bet that the Trinity Obelisk has a similar affiliation.
Now, I've addressed your question, I'll ask you one. What makes you think the Trinity Memorial isn't masonic?
Was it paid for or erected or consecrated by Freemasons? Probably. When I do find out what Lodge was responsible for the erection of the Trinity monument, are you going to be willing to accept that it is masonic, or are we supposed to believe that just because soemthing is paid for erected by and consecrated by freemasons that it doesn't make it masonic? That's ridiculous. Who else would do such a thing?

If you don't think that the Vance memorial Obelisk is masonic, maybe we should ask Masonic Research Lodge 666

Source
Masonic Research Lodge 666... The Society is governed and funded by the GrandLodge of North Carolina Committee onMasonic Education.

We also have in Asheville, a African American Masonic Temple, always wondered about the Brotherly Love that must be responsible to segregate blacks from your lodges, but then Albert Pike was no champion of racial equality was he...

reply to post by twitchy


I promised myself that I wouldn’t add to this thread but this time I can’t help myself.

I am replying as firstly a North Carolinian, secondly a great-grandson of a Confederate Veteran and thirdly as a Mason.

The monument to which you are referring commemorating Governor Vance is just that, a monument to commemorate “him” the man, the Governor, the General, the statesman, and yes the Mason. It is Not there to commemorate Free Masonry.

reply to post by Masonic Student

The Vance Memorial was erected by, consecrated by, and paid for by Freemasons to honor a famous freemason, on the winter solstice.
What ISN"T masonic about it?

Originally posted by twitchy
reply to post by Masonic Student

 

The Vance Memorial was erected by, consecrated by, and paid for by Freemasons to honor a famous freemason, on the winter solstice.
What ISN"T masonic about it?

Uh....maybe it being an obelisk at a time when things Egyptian were venerated (by society in general) as talismans of knowledge and wisdom?

So....that said, have you found your positive proof of all obelisks being inherently Masonic yet? How about the one at the Trinity site (which spawned this fantastic waste of electrons)?

We will stay on topic and drop the snide posting.

NGC2736
Forum Moderator




[edit on 31-1-2008 by NGC2736]

Originally posted by earthman4
Anything longer than it is wide is a Freudian Phalic symbol. Thus proving that masons have penisis.

Can you tell me in what way this adds to the topic at all?

reply to post by twitchy


It is not Just honering a mason. He was so much more than that. I take exception to your spacific example, in this case you are taking away from the honor due a great man. (by saying it is a Masonic memomorial.) Not just a mason but a great man who's actions as General and as a Statesman deserve honoring.

Yes it was errected, dedicated, and partialy paid for by masons. But, if my memory is correct, the "Son's of Confederate Veterins" also heloed pay for it as well as helped dedicate it. Many private citizens of NOrth Carolina also donated to it's cost.

reply to post by Masonic Student


So basically what you are saying is that it is a tribute to an man of great deeds that just happened to be a Mason?

Rhetorical question.

reply to post by intrepid

In this case most assuredly yes!!! While it is my opinion that most of the monuments sited so far are in this category. In this specific instance it is most defiantly true.

Thank you for keeping an eye on this thread.

This spacific example just hits a nerve, as a southerner.

[edit on 31-1-2008 by Masonic Student]

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
have you found your positive proof of all obelisks being inherently Masonic yet?

Can you show me where, in this thread, or any other, where I have said that ALL obelisks are Masonic? Other than you and a couple others here on this thread intentionally misquoting me, I've seen no one make any such assertion. I said the Trinity Obelisk is masonic, and I've listed a number of other obelisks that I believe to Masonic. I hope that clears up any misconception you might have had on my position.

Have you found any proof that the trinity obelisk isn't masonic? If that seems that it's a rhetorical question, perhaps it is only because of a rhetorical point of view. Some of the Freemasons here have done some research for this thread, and believe it or not, I appreciate their contributions, and recognise the effort expended on their part to look into this. Can you say the same?

Charles Manson wasn't a member of the German Nazi Party, but he carved a swastika in the middle of his forehead. Why would he do that unless the symbolism was something he personalized? If Obelisks aren't used in Freemasonry, why in the world would you go around erecting them on Solstices? If Freemasons bought the Obelisk, if Freemasons erected the Obelisk, If Freemasons picked a occultic day like the Winter Solstice to Consecrate the monument they paid for and erected to honor another freemason, then how in the wide world of reason can you deny that such a monument is masonic?

Originally posted by Masonic Student
in this case you are taking away from the honor due a great man.

Lemme break it down... I'm from North Carolina myself.
I am the descendant of a Revolutionary War Hero, and a Native American heritage. Cherokee.
I'm apparently a melungeon (another thread sometime), and I am a proud flat footed by god genuine appalachian hillbilly.
I am not however, taking anything away from Zebulon Vance, other than to say he was involved in Freemasonry. Even the Pope picks his nose.

reply to post by twitchy


It seems to me that obelisks, Masonic or not, are erected to commemorate men or events of import. To claim some obelisks are raised for purely Masonic purposes doesn't really fly. Why isn't there an obelisk for Paul Bernardo?

Perhaps someone should advise twitchy to un-blist me.

He might learn something, and as a bonus he could stop asking the question of why the Trinity Obelisk is *not* Masonic.

Just a thought. He's ignoring me. Perhaps someone could quote this for me:

1. There are no Masonic symbols on said "obelisk."

2. There is no association between the site and Freemasonry.

3. There is no association between the atomic bomb and Freemasonry.

4. There is no connection between the man who erected the "obelisk" and Freemasonry.

5. There was no Masonic ceremony associated with the "obelisk's" erection.

6. The obelisk is not an inherently Masonic symbol, ergo the association to Freemasonry proposed by twitchy lacks substance.

7. Twitchy has provided zero (0) evidence of a connection between this particular monument and Freemasonry.

8. Twitchy has attempted to associate this obelisk to Freemasonry by way of an individual who a) was not a Mason, and b) was not involved in any way, shape, or form with the monument in question.

9. Twitchy constantly demands that his "opponents" prove a negative, which is a logical fallacy.

10. Twitchy argues that the monument is in fact an obelisk based on the White Sands Missile Test Site website, written by someone who doesn't give a "jack hooey," I believe the term was, whether it is an obelisk or a cairn, despite the fact that technically, the monument is indeed a cairn.

There you go. 10 reasons why the Trinity Monument is not Masonic.

[edit on 1/31/08 by The Axeman]

reply to post by intrepid

Why isn't there an obelisk for Philippe IV of France? Do you see the logic there? Right, I don't either.
If a monument is Paid for, Erected by, Consecrated by and in Honor of a freemason, then it's masonic. As far as I know, regular people don't just ban together in a town one day and say hey let's put up an Egyptian Phallic Sybmol on the Solstice to honor an event or person which was masonic. Sorry but I just can't get past the association.

reply to post by twitchy


twitchy, is it safe to say that you will not be moved from your position if God himself tell you differently?

reply to post by intrepid

Depends on which God... God or G-D? There's a difference you know. LOL

reply to post by twitchy


You know what I meant twitchy and I must admit that I am losing patience with this.