Do people who aren’t Christian deserve be tortured in hell?

Originally posted by WorldShadow
You have been rather very selective in quoting my post, and have attempted to use a spin favored by fundamentalist.

Has it ever occurred to you, that as a Christian, you maybe factually and totally be wrong yourself!.

Wrath of Descent is not a Christian. He has explained this many times on ATS and this thread.

LOL! this is a hilarious thread.

Let's sum it up by answering the title of this thread with a NO.
There are no TRUE christians that would ever be caught dead telling someone they will go to hell if they don't accept jesus.

Anyone doing something like that is known as an extremist.

Originally posted by Critical_Mass
LOL! this is a hilarious thread.

Let's sum it up by answering the title of this thread with a NO.
There are no TRUE christians that would ever be caught dead telling someone they will go to hell if they don't accept jesus.

Anyone doing something like that is known as an extremist.

Seems I've met a lot of extremists...

Best way to have someone denounce belief in God, is to have them read the Bible! There are too many fallacies, contradictions, and generally wrong statements in it that it makes my head spin.

Originally posted by criticalunity
This Walking fox sure loves to argue, & I just have to say that what's you're saying is bunk; The Earht formed on it's own, there could not be a concious being that just goes & creates things, without there being a planet for this being to form on first. - Life usually takes care of itself, & planets with little or no life on the surely wouldn't need a 'caretaker' - We are nature, we are not separate from it. - WE were not created ffrom dirt, but we did form from the natural system of the earth. -The so called caretakers are the brotherhood, that dont care about us; They care about completely controlling us. - And believe me, if I had a bunch of people at my control that showed their ... state of minds by thinking such things that are not too far off from Santa Claus beliefs, I would have all confidence I could get my NWO... - That's why their just gonna bring it in now, & just like the people had no say in what goes on, we'll have no say in these coming ev events, & most people will follow, under the assumption that it's the Apocalypse, doomsday, whatever, when these things dont have to happen!!!! - The fact that it's predicted in the bible should start to turn some heaads, because it's obviously a plan, using conditioning. .

Roole wun! Spelling!
Roole tu! Punctuation!
Roole thri! Coherent thoughts BEFORE committing them to text!

But hey, points for quoting and apparently reading my post, without actually attempting to understand it. The point I made was that the bible actively discourages environmental destruction.

reply to post by skyshow

People Christian or not, do not deserve eternal hell, (whatever that sadistic or masochistic figment of the imagination is) and the life after life or near death experience evidence (read Ramond Moody's work, and years upon years of editions of the Journal of Near Death Studies) isn't showing this to be the case either. Whether someone is Christian or not does not appear to matter regarding someones experience after death. Even Aeithiests in some cases have reported experiences of love from the light and did not find themselves in that "hell" realm.

I really thought (given the tittle of the thread) that people would have caught this, and added some thought or comment on it. So if observation (science) is showing that it doesn't matter, but the bible says you have to be Christian, than clearly one or the other is wrong. So what do you think about that?

hi/
For those that would like to read early teachings on the 'HELL' fire....

Life after DEATH

Ninth. Hades, into which the souls of the saints of the Old Testament descended, was not in the form of fire and hell, but in the form of a gaol and a prison. In the same way the souls of those who have sinned in moderation "will be held in that kind of hades after death". In other words, those who have sinned a little will live as in a prison until the Second Coming of Christ, awaiting the final judgement, when Hell will begin. This is why it is not necessary for a purifying fire to exist..........read further for more...

First that, as the whole Bible and the Tradition of the Church teach, there is a difference in the vision of God, according to the person's purification in this life.
He who is more purified sees the glory of God more completely. Whenever there is greater and lesser vision of God it corresponds to the purification. If someone even has a few sins "he too sees God without any need for a purifying fire", as God's love for mankind is sufficient, of course to a proportionate degree.
But the teaching about the purifying fire takes away this difference in the enjoyment of the glory of God. For if men of this category pass through the purifying fire, it follows that all the souls of the righteous "are in the same vision of God, which is bliss". But this is false, because Christ said that in His Father's Kingdom "there are many mansions" (John 14, 2).

Link above has further teachings......

IX
helen

What is unfortunate is that there is no heaven or hell, so it does not matter. You are provided the time you have and there is no entity that decides when it ends, simply chance. While all the religious fight over who's god is right there is a rock somewhere that is heading inevitably to our demise. The real question is will we put aside war to start planet hopping or will we allow our selves to become that of the dinosaurs? Say what you will but religion is a sorry excuse for people that can't except the fact that we are all given windows. We have a window to make the most of, if we choose not to utilize it and fight we are idiots. If you feel that your particular god out of the many is the only one that is right, you were raised in idiocy. Sooner or later we will be fuel for stars and those stars will create the building blocks for life and life will start again in a never ending cycle to repeat again and again. Once we all get in touch with that realization we will live the life of gods.

From what I've read in the quran Hell was first intented for the rejected ibliss or who christians call satan. God intially told satan that whichever humans would follow his evil desires would meet there end in hell with Ibliss.

The quran also says that hell is for the ungrateful and the ones who reject faith,it doesnt matter what religon you belong to..ITS ABOUT FAITH.

The quran also says GOD IS FREE OF ALLL WANT...which means he doesnt need us, we need him,so we should be grateful and except god as true reality.

One of the thing god hates is false worship...thats why all major civilizzations were destroyed, because they worshipped gods,insted of the one true GOD.

Heaven and Hell are well talked about in the quran,even more then the bible does.

Actually, it seems to me that the people most likely to burn in a firey Hell are the casual Christians, the ones who pick and choose what they want to believe and how much to do as long as it doesn't inconvenience them in their regular lives. Jesus said he'd rather have somebody be a non-believer than a half-assed Christian. Which are about 99.99 percent of all Christians.

"So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." Revelation 3:16

Hi /


What possible harm can come, if all people with different faiths, tribes(I know!) and cultures and what have you, live with Love and kindness with one another?
What if one has led a good life and done goodwill among men and later learn't, that there is nothing or was nothing out there, after death of the body?
What then?
Does this in any way take away, what felt good at doing all those things?
Was it a waste of time?
I think not!
Man has never been happy or content with they have(especially those that need no more material things).
It seems man becomes more miserable with the more they have.
If man has money,health and all needed for his/her life to live comfortably, what other possible thing can that person want?
Why do we question death at some point in our lives?(and we all have done this at least once)
Why do we suffer physical and mental pain?
I mean, physical is felt!
Correct?
So how is it that mental pain is felt deeper and to no avail?
Life without God is like suffering in Hell....this what what Fathers have said Hell will be like.....Away from God
Imagine having not known what true Love feels like?
Imagine having to look for a good Word and finding that no one is there to comfort you?
Imagine feeling in despair and no one cares about you?
Imagine the worst possible feeling of hopelessness,being alone and having no one?
Hell is what one makes of it in this world...all those feelings of despair and loneliness,one life without Faith in anything,having no Hope and no Love ......this is Hell eternal which will continue in the next life.....it will be what you make of it now.
Can man live without LOVE ?
what is the meaning of ''"man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God"? (Matt. 4:4)
As the Body hungers,
and so the Soul thirsts!


IX
helen

From what I've read in the quran Hell was first intented for the rejected ibliss or who christians call satan. God intially told satan that whichever humans would follow his evil desires would meet there end in hell with Ibliss.

Ok….so what did Satan do to end up in hell? he challenged god, so when ever someone disbelieves in or ‘challenges' the existence of the Abraham god, they will “meet there end in hell.” And so….as an atheist…..I don’t believe in your god, as so…..I will according to your beliefs….go to hell for my beliefs….

The quran also says that hell is for the ungrateful and the ones who reject faith,it doesnt matter what religon you belong to..ITS ABOUT FAITH.

Well, you should know just about any and every atheist doesn’t just accept things though faith, they need hard proof to accept any belief system…..and so….just about every atheist is going to hell……..as well as people who aren’t Muslim don’t have faith in your particular god, and so they are also going to hell, it doesn’t matter as you said what religion they believe in, but if they have the right faith……the faith in Allah….. since 5 billion people on the planet don’t have faith in Allah….that’s 5 billion people that are going to hell…..

The quran also says GOD IS FREE OF ALLL WANT...which means he doesnt need us, we need him,so we should be grateful and except god as true reality.

I’m not accepting no god who’s going to send 5 billion people to hell, simply for not having the right faith or belief…..

One of the thing god hates is false worship...thats why all major civilizzations were destroyed, because they worshipped gods,insted of the one true GOD.

So your god willingly murdered I don’t know how many hundreds of thousands or even millions of people because of their beliefs……You’ve really got a loving and merciful god their don't you….LOL


[edit on 25-1-2008 by andre18]

Personally, I do not think anybody deserves to go to Hell for any reason.

But I am not the Creator or the master of the universe. And I am not ignorant enough to think that the reality of the unknown is contingent upon my views, beliefs, or opinions. So it really doesn't matter what I think.

reply to post by andre18


Hi andre/

eg/
I'm a parent and my five year old just wont listen!
I tell my five year old that if he wont listen, then punishment it will be.
I tell my five year old not to pull the cats tail because it isn't a nice thing to do to a helpless animal.
My five year old does it anyway,disobeying a rule that should be heed for good reason...I punish the five year old with putting him to bed and having no contact with the cat.....is that fair?
I think so!
Why should the animal suffer because my five year old thinks it all too funny.
Laws and rules are there to be obeyed...they're there for a reason.
You brake the rules, you do the punishment.
You don't believe in a God?
That's fine!
What rules do you live by?
And do they do you just?
yes?
That's fine!
You live in a society where there are Laws that you need to obey!

As for your Original post about ''Do people who aren’t Christian deserve be tortured in hell?
The answer has been said many times over.
No, they do not deserve hell ....
Your argument cannot be comprehended because you don't want to hear the answer as You like it.
Again, Laws of the country and this world must be obeyed.
You brake them, there are consequences to be had.

IX
helen

Originally posted by helen670
Hi /


What possible harm can come, if all people with different faiths, tribes(I know!) and cultures and what have you, live with Love and kindness with one another?

None, I'll just take a rain check for whenever that pans out....

Originally posted by shizzle5150

Originally posted by helen670
Hi /


What possible harm can come, if all people with different faiths, tribes(I know!) and cultures and what have you, live with Love and kindness with one another?

None, I'll just take a rain check for whenever that pans out....

hi/
And what if it never rains?
What if the rain never comes your way a second time?


Andre18/
The justice system works with the Laws that people put in place.
agreed?
Gods Law works with your own conscience.....let's say one's own built in 'hard drive'(lets call it that!)where all information is stored in, it is that,that will do you justice or injustice of which hell you find yourself in.
There will be no Lawyers present for your favour.
It will be your own justice or injustice that will determine your final destination(so to speak)
eg/
God gave man Body,Soul and Spirit!
The Body is dead.
Th Spirit will speak of the rights and wrongs.
And so the Soul shall live for eternity ...
(I'm no expert here on D.N.A, so anyone can correct me if I'm wrong)
D.N.A.......determines what genes you carry.
Both parents carry D.N.A and so forth......if problems arise,
It goes back to the original host...
We are not talking about personality or character traits,that of which can be influenced by who brought you up and your surroundings.

does that make sense?

helen

seems to me alot of you are mixing up god with controlling perverted bastard men.

1 golden rule

When crossed send the bastard to god to sort out right from wrong.

Good guys in a better place - bad guys in where they deserve.

1 sentence - for repeat offenders death - not likely to be innocent twice now are you.

Yes this does includes jaywalking. - Wo's going to risk get caght the 2nd time????????????

I punish the five year old with putting him to bed and having no contact with the cat.....is that fair?

Yes…………

Laws and rules are there to be obeyed...they're there for a reason.

Yep

You brake the rules, you do the punishment.

Yep

You don't believe in a God?

I don’t believe in your god….yep….or anyone else’s….yep….or any god for that matter…yep

What rules do you live by?

The pending rules of the government of Australia…..

And do they do you just?

Sometimes…..yes…sometimes no….

You live in a society where there are Laws that you need to obey!

Yep………so what has any of this have to do with anything…..?

Your argument cannot be comprehended because you don't want to hear the answer as You like it.

I’m actually really happy with some of the answers I’ve received so far on this thread.
Here’s just one of my favourites.

“Yes, if you do not believe in God, through Jesus, according to the Christian faith you go to Hell. That is a Christian answer to a question based on Christianity using Christian doctrine. There is your answer.”

Again, Laws of the country and this world must be obeyed.
You brake them, there are consequences to be had.

Yep….

The justice system works with the Laws that people put in place.
agreed?

Yep

Gods Law works with your own conscience.....let's say one's own built in 'hard drive'(lets call it that!)where all information is stored in, it is that,that will do you justice or injustice of which hell you find yourself in.
There will be no Lawyers present for your favour.
It will be your own justice or injustice that will determine your final destination(so to speak)
eg/
God gave man Body,Soul and Spirit!
The Body is dead.
Th Spirit will speak of the rights and wrongs.
And so the Soul shall live for eternity ...
(I'm no expert here on D.N.A, so anyone can correct me if I'm wrong)
D.N.A.......determines what genes you carry.
Both parents carry D.N.A and so forth......if problems arise,
It goes back to the original host...
We are not talking about personality or character traits,that of which can be influenced by who brought you up and your surroundings.

does that make sense?

Well…..I’m just not really sure how this is relevant to the topic….

And no….it doesn’t make sense….to ‘me’……I have no idea what you’re
talking about…DNA…..or something….Hard drive…what…?


[edit on 25-1-2008 by andre18]

reply to post by andre18


Good point!
I don't think that good honest people who haven't "found God" deserve to be eternally tortured. I think that's nasty.
But the sort of people who do torture others certainly deserve to go to a dimension that is full of entities just like themselves.

reply to post by andre18


reply to post by andre18


Hi/
I think it's very relevant to the Topic!
Did you not ask about people who are not Christian deserving to go to hell?
Well, I gave you a few of why they do not deserve to go to hell or the hell that is in Scripture.......as well as teachings of the early fathers.
And so have the many members here who have posted about your original post!
Is it relevant?
Well,I was using an example because you seem to be lost and going round in circles....
Was not your original post answered?

It will be you(your Spirit) who gives you ,your sentencing.....Judgment day.
Hard drive....was an Example!
You may think that all is wiped clean(trashed) on your computer, but in actual fact....it is still there to be found,if one knows where to look.

Deserving to go to hell?
I would recommend you stop watching 'Hostel' and other 'Torture' movies that can be detrimental to you!

IX
helen

If God wanted man to go to heaven, why did he put man on earth in the first place? Why did he not simply put man in heaven from the beginning? I find it hard to believe that man with all his capabilities, desires, and complexities was created merely to sit and bow and scrape and worship. Certainly there is not, nor ever was, a human tyrant so vain and proud that he wanted his subjects merely to bow and scrape obsequiously and subserviently before him from dawn to dusk, let alone for all eternity. I certainly can understand why Satan wanted to rebel against such a static, regimented, oppressive, boring society. From what you have told me so far, I would have had to side with Satan in the rebellion, for although I consider myself a humble man as men go, I could not bow and scrape and sing praises all day to a being who threatened me with punishment and eternal torment if I did not.

Of course; by definition he is without sin because he could not be disobedient to himself. The only real difference between the two is the degree of power. Therefore, Satan was not wrong or sinful to rebel against God, he was only wrong to lose the rebellion. For if he had won, God would be the sinner: because God would have been disobedient to Satan who would be better than God or the other angels because he could not sin against himself, that is, be disobedient to himself, and he would have proven himself all powerful. If Satan had won, he would have become God, by your definition because he would have been all powerful and without sin. Who knows but that this didn't happen? From your description of God, I begin to suspect at this point that it did. "

If God is just or merciful, how can he do this to an enemy who fought him in battle. Why did God not simply pardon Satan after defeat as men often do to a captured nation after they defeat it? Mankind would seem in victory to be more merciful than God; for they do not treat the vanquished to such terrible torments for even a lifetime, let alone for all eternity. Why did God not show the qualities that you described as his justice, mercy, compassion, and forgiveness to Satan? Certainly God's warlike nature is in marked contrast with your definition of the term God as being peaceful, merciful and all forgiving.

Should have a read at this www.jameshartforcongress.com...
Quite a good read for everyone.