Koran a FAKE

Originally posted by Kyuubi
reply to post by cybrseer

 

Well, I think it's a bit more difficult, for some people, to consider what a prophet may have to say about whatever truth he claims.

Many times, religious claims can be so supernatural and just wouldn't normally comply with present knowledge.

Either way, I guess this is where science comes in. Religion and science can and should work together in searching for truth; especially if what you say about the Bible urging followers to prove it's words is true. Thank you for sharing that, as I never knew about it.

Faith would only corrupt the search for truth, then. Correct?

In addition, aren't these claims pretty ambiguous? How should we interpret the words of a scripture? Literally, or symbolically? Is there anything in them that serves guidance in this question?

Honestly, I am an agnostic in many aspects. Human discovery and scienctific concepts are very much relative to us, and religion is just...so out of this world, to me, that it seems impossible to prove that there's an ultimate designer(that among other things).

Maybe science hasn't taken in discoveries in such a way that could be beneficial to confirmation or invalidation of religion. Maybe science does have the right idea and religion just fails to stand up in the ring. Maybe the words of scripture have been lost in translation, and are no longer so pure as they were, thus unreliable for even consideration.

I admire your thoughts and words, Cybrseer. I have learned a lot from you, and am glad to have done so.

I'm also confident in my understandind of your vews and respect them, greatly. I love to learn about different perspectives; different ways of thinking and interpreting.

I'm just curious, though...Are you a Christian?

I believe that GOD is provable and that the Bible clearly states this.
I believe that mans inability to prove GOD shows mankinds lack of relationship with GOD.

From that, I kinda got the impression that you believe in God, and that you might be a Christian. But then according to your rule, Christianity isn't true, yet; it hasn't been proved. So I'm asking because I'm not sure.


[edit on 15-2-2008 by Kyuubi]

It is refreshing that someone has the power of observation that you possess.

No. I am not a Christian.

I am Agnostic. I believe in one less God than the Christians.

Cybrseer

[edit on 15-2-2008 by cybrseer]

reply to post by heliosprime

Close , I don't believe its true, I KNOW it is true.

Cybrseer responds: Correction accepted

Dead wrong. Its not about "building bridges" to understanding each other, that puts allah on the same level as GOD. Its about burning down false teachings, and building back truth.

Cybrseer responds: Perhaps I was vague. let me use your response as an example. If I am discussing GOD with someone who believes in allah, I can reason that his belief in allah is likely equal to my belief in GOD. I would use this commonality as a stepping stone or a bridge to gain access into his intellect, which in turn affords me the opportunity to burn down his bridge of lies, deceit, and false teachings and construct a new bridge to enlightenment.

Nice try, but again dead wrong. The proof is all around you, it is you who is blind. Its not about me, my "beliefs", nor my words, wisdom, blah, blah, blah.

Its about the word of GOD. It is you who must seek he............

Cybrseer responds: Once again perhaps I was vague.

Yes "the proof is all around you". GOD uses prophets to enlighten those who are unable to see the proof of his existence.

Correct "its not about me". Its about GOD.

GOD askes his followers to preach the gospel to every tongue, kindered and nation.

I believe that GOD is provable and that the Bible clearly states this.
I believe that mans inability to prove GOD shows mankinds lack of relationship with GOD.

If something is false than it can be proven false.
Deception should be exposed.

reply to post by cybrseer


Ah. That's interesting.

And thank you. Your comments are greatly appreciated.

reply to post by cybrseer


Kudos to you cyberseer.

I'm glad to see someone with a rational mind answering in an honest and rational way!

Personally, I prefer faith to dogma because the adherance to dogma has been the downfall of so many of man's spiritual initiaves to find his maker...OR the reason for all that is.

quote: "I believe in one less God than the christians". I think this is a simple yet profound comment.

Peace

reply to post by deenamarie53


Thank you for your kind remarks.

Personally, I prefer faith to dogma because the adherance to dogma has been the downfall of so many of man's spiritual initiaves to find his maker...OR the reason for all that is.

I am very cautious of 'Faith' as you may have read in some of my other posts, I presently believe that A belief in God requires proof from God.

Mankind has replaced proof with faith.
Proof enables mankind to believe in God.
Faith sustains mankinds belief in God.

Once again allow me to state the obvious.
I have not achieved omniscience. (and likely never will, but that won't stop me from trying). I am a philosopher. I am a truth seeker.

May truth prevail.

CybrSeer

Originally posted by cybrseer

I have not achieved omniscience. (and likely never will, but that won't stop me from trying). I am a philosopher. I am a truth seeker.

May truth prevail.

CybrSeer

As well, I have recently begun to search for the same thing.

How do you feel about relativity and truth?

You just haven't reached omniscience...YET, lol.



Faith, to me, is like trying to decipher consciousness. I know it exists and it functions in a world of hurt....both faith and consciousness, that is.

Where I show my fundamentalism (there's that ism again) is because of my faith in Jesus Christ.

I don't mention my belief often because that's not why I'm here. It's just so that you or anyone else reading my posts won't feel mislead.

Heh. I'd like to think some day, we will achieve omniscience(at least I hope so). Wether it be through life or death, it would be amazing.

Still, I agree one should strive, regardless. It's not like we wouldn't get anywhere.

As for faith, belief, proof; I think 'knowledge' would be the right word to describe what proof would provide.

Steps closer to omniscience.

reply to post by Kyuubi


I think omniscience would be terribly, painfully boring. As they say, the journey is as great a purpose as the destination. If you know everything... What's the point? The only thing more profoundly disturbing I can think of is losing what I know and being unable to regain it... while knowing I;'d lost it.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by Kyuubi

 

I think omniscience would be terribly, painfully boring. As they say, the journey is as great a purpose as the destination. If you know everything... What's the point? The only thing more profoundly disturbing I can think of is losing what I know and being unable to regain it... while knowing I;'d lost it.

Well then, what's the point of walking the path? Are we walking on it just for fun? Are we formulating theories and what-ifs just for leisure? The search for truth is the search for truth. If we get there, we should be happy. There is probably more truth to explore than there is to wonder about.

I understand where you're coming from. Honestly, I don't think we can ever obtain the absolute truth, here on Earth. It might be the afterlife, if any. If not ever, then it's fine. Our time here was not wasted, I say.

One may never know if we can achieve omniscience. It's never happened, but we never know until we try. No one knows how long we must strive to accomplish. The truth takes an unknown time to find; therefore, we keep trying in hopes of finding it.

So I don't think we have to worry about getting bored.

As for a different kind of truth: a relative truth; the chances are more likely of finding it first. I really wish there was a philosophical section of this place.

Maybe cyberseer will help us out in some form or fashion.

oops, I did a one-liner. Had to edit this so I don't get dinged.


[edit on 18-2-2008 by deenamarie53]

reply to post by Kyuubi

How do you feel about relativity and truth?

I think it's relative. Oh you opened the door to that one, I was unable to resist. Yes, this ancient scholar occasionally has a sense of humor.

Please expand. Do you mean Einstein's Theory of Relativity?

reply to post by Kyuubi


I really think we'll reach that state of being. Honestly. But not in this physical manifestation...nor will we BE God (just to clarify) but we'll have all the divine inheritances given to us as His children.

reply to post by cybrseer


Hahahahahaha!

I guffawed on that bit of humor.

reply to post by deenamarie53


I believe that anything, whether it be faith or the lack thereof, that positively progresses mankind to greater spiritual and intellectual heights is worthy of pursuit, discussion, and understanding.

I am aware that I just opened 'Pandoras Box' with the aforesaid.

Cybrseer

reply to post by cybrseer


Hahaha. Good one. Ancient? Such a strong word...Haha.

My apologies...Relative truth is a concept that came to mind, recently. I'm not sure I put it into words, properly.

I mean, do you feel all 'truth' is relative? Or is our truth THE truth? Do you feel as though there is an absolute truth, somewhere, most likely beyond the reaches of mankind? Somethin' along those lines.

Interesting enough, I came across this line of thought as I was learning about Einstein's theory. In a metaphor, the laws of motion and added velocities are our relative truths, while lightspeed is the absolute, constant truth that I have doubts about achieving, in our world. I don't think I've grasped the concept entirely, yet, but am getting there.

Originally posted by deenamarie53
reply to post by Kyuubi

 

I really think we'll reach that state of being. Honestly. But not in this physical manifestation...

This is what I'm leaning towards, but will still try my hardest, here in this life.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox

I think omniscience would be terribly, painfully boring. As they say, the journey is as great a purpose as the destination. If you know everything... What's the point? The only thing more profoundly disturbing I can think of is losing what I know and being unable to regain it... while knowing I;'d lost it.

Perhaps you are correct, not being all-knowing forces my humility upon many points of view. Nevertheless, I propose that one who achieves omniscience would be in a position to benefit all mankind and those that choose to seek all truth without reservation will be able to advance the cause of man along the way.

Cybrseer

There is an old story about how the Creator, all knowing as He was, chose to forget himself, and become temporarily mortal. In so doing, He could experience the unexpected, both joy and sorrow. In the end, He would be greater even than He had been before, because in living the unexpected lives of mortal men, he would be able to improve His understanding of all things.

Nothing more than an old myth I once heard, but interesting to contemplate.

reply to post by NGC2736

There is an old story about how the Creator, all knowing as He was, chose to forget himself, and become temporarily mortal. In so doing, He could experience the unexpected, both joy and sorrow. In the end, He would be greater even than He had been before, because in living the unexpected lives of mortal men, he would be able to improve His understanding of all things.

Nothing more than an old myth I once heard, but interesting to contemplate.

Agreed. It is interesting. Perhaps a thread of God became a man is woven into this adage.

The converse would achieve this as well. Starting as a man and seeking truth until omniscience was achieved would afford one the same experience as the 'old myth'. The difference being one started as a God, became man, then returned to a God. The other started as a man and became God.

Cybrseer