Koran a FAKE

Originally posted by Blaine91555
My only comment would be, after reading 6 pages of this thread, why on earth did ATS decide to include Religious discussion on this board???? It will never lead to any meaningful discussion and can only lead to dissent. I believe the powers that be at ATS are most unwise if they let this continue. Nothing worthwhile comes of these threads; Ever! Its just a playground for hateful, hurtful people to apply their craft.

So any debate concerning religion is worthless? A debate over a primal driving force that affects billions is not worthwile? A fundamental debate about the source of hate that is murdering thousands each year in the name of "allah" is meaningless?

sad nearsightedness......................

reply to post by heliosprime


Heh. Debates concerning religion are worthless with people like you. As far as I'm concerned, this is one big hate fest. You're the one hating. Not all Muslims are hateful terrorists.

Maybe if you had bothered to read or reply to my earlier post you would've learned that "Allah" only means "God", in Arabic and that this "Allah" is the same God as the Christian one.

Those terorists you see kill those who don't believe what they believe. Who's to say you're any different from them? I wouldn't say you were a killer, but you're already taking a step toward terrorism: bashing those of other faith.

Originally posted by Kyuubi

Maybe if you had bothered to read or reply to my earlier post you would've learned that "Allah" only means "God", in Arabic and that this "Allah" is the same God as the Christian one.

If you had bothered to read earlier posts you would not have tried to get away with that LIE. allah is in no way the GOD of Abraham, Issac, Moses, etc, etc, etc.

Yet again speaking truth is mischaracterized as hate. A typical trick of the defeated. There is much evidence in this thread and links provided to show how "lame" is your "reply".

Please add data to backup your claims..............

Nowhere do I hate muslim's only the lie that is islam. Muslims are misguided lost children needing the light of truth. Islamo-terrorist are just evil begotten from evil words in and evil book of lies........

HeliosPrime,

Can you refresh my memory of why you believe the Allah is connected to Satan?

reply to post by heliosprime


Ever read the Koran, Helios? I can give you a link, if you like.

In the meantime, I suggest you educate yourself about Middle Eastern Christianity. The Syrian church doesn't interrupt their Arabic service to satisfy you with a hearty Bible-belt rendition of "Gawd thah AwwwwMIGHTY!"

[edit on 6-2-2008 by TheWalkingFox]

Originally posted by undo
HeliosPrime,

Can you refresh my memory of why you believe the Allah is connected to Satan?

God — The Koran asserts that the god of Islam is the God of Christians and Jews (Sura 29:46). Nothing could be farther from the truth.7

The god of Islam, Allah, is most definitely not the God of the Bible. Allah is presented in the Koran as an autocratic ruler who is aloof and arbitrary (Sura 5:40). Allah is unknowable whereas the God of the Bible is knowable (2 Timothy 1:12). Allah is impersonal, unlike the personal God the Scriptures reveal (1 Peter 5:6-7). Allah is unitarian (Sura 4:48) whereas the God of the Bible is trinitarian (2 Corinthians 13:14). Here is what the Koran says about the God of the Bible (Sura 4:171): “Believe in Allah and say not ‘Trinity.’ Cease! It is better for you! Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from his transcendent majesty that he should have a son.” www.apologeticsindex.org...

[edit on 2/7/08 by FredT]

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by heliosprime

 

Ever read the Koran, Helios? I can give you a link, if you like.

In the meantime, I suggest you educate yourself about Middle Eastern Christianity. The Syrian church doesn't interrupt their Arabic service to satisfy you with a hearty Bible-belt rendition of "Gawd thah AwwwwMIGHTY!"

[edit on 6-2-2008 by TheWalkingFox]

how about I give you one, have you read it?

www.sacred-texts.com...

That part is obvious. What I mean is, what about the name of Allah makes you think it was originally Satan's name or one of Satan's names? Because the name itself is very old

I believe there's avery interesting etymology for it being a deritive of the sumerian Enlil. Have you seen that?

[edit on 7-2-2008 by undo]

Here it is


source:
www.balaams-ass.com...

If you've read the link I provided with that etymology (above), you might notice that he doesn't believe IL and EL are the same, and that the root form of IL is LIL not EL. I had a discussion on this topic with another scholar (Michael S. Heiser) who said that EL is IL. they are the same, just two different ways to say the name, depending on whether in the northern or southern part of the area (not sure what area, unless he means Iraq).

Furthermore, if you read the exploits of Enlil from the sumerian-akkadian texts, he does almost all the same things Jehovah does. He decides to wipe out mankind with a flood, for example.

Where the true argument arises is in the same place as it is for the christian or the jew: He had a wife? This is what causes the gentleman at the link I posted (in previous post, directly below the etymology image) to call Enlil a pagan god. The issue is, if Enlil was a pagan god, what's with the oldest texts on earth attributing him with the exploits of Jehovah?

Originally posted by heliosprime

Originally posted by undo
HeliosPrime,

Can you refresh my memory of why you believe the Allah is connected to Satan?

God — The Koran asserts that the god of Islam is the God of Christians and Jews (Sura 29:46). Nothing could be farther from the truth.7

The god of Islam, Allah, is most definitely not the God of the Bible. Allah is presented in the Koran as an autocratic ruler who is aloof and arbitrary (Sura 5:40). Allah is unknowable whereas the God of the Bible is knowable (2 Timothy 1:12). Allah is impersonal, unlike the personal God the Scriptures reveal (1 Peter 5:6-7). Allah is unitarian (Sura 4:48) whereas the God of the Bible is trinitarian (2 Corinthians 13:14). Here is what the Koran says about the God of the Bible (Sura 4:171): “Believe in Allah and say not ‘Trinity.’ Cease! It is better for you! Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from his transcendent majesty that he should have a son.” www.apologeticsindex.org...

[edit on 2/7/08 by FredT]

Im confused as to how the God of the bible is personal God.I guess the bible SAYS that?but how is he?Even christians admit that God(of the bible)does little interfering,physically,in our world.And if you believe otherwise I feel sorry for you.Perhaps by personal you mean emotionally personal?I would accept a statement like this.But warm feelings of love of god are in every religion.So some cases of warm feelings are NOT due to god,since they can't all be right.Some cases of warm feelings of god MUST be done by humans,on their own.Agreed?So how do we know which warm feeling is the one of god.
you say allah is an "autocratic ruler who is aloof and arbitrary "
but that christian God,in the old testament especially,is a flat out jerk.
He is the biggest prick in all of fiction.(yes,fiction)

"He is jelous and proud of it: a petty,unjust,unforgiving control-freak:a vindictive,bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser;a misogynistic,homophobic,racist,infanticidal,genocidal,filicidal,pestilential,megalomaniacal,sadasochistic,capriciously malevolent bully."
-The God delusion

Trinitarian?Please...3 gods one part?one god three parts?Ask 50 christians you'll get different answers.The whole concept of trinity is laughable.

reply to post by Austin9599945


There are many whos eyes are blind and can not see truth, nor understand its words. Your words above show a lack of understanding of the truth of GOD and the salvation of Jesus. For these it is a waste of time to try to plant seeds of truth on rocks where the seed will die.

Pray, seek GOD and he will answer. Until then the "game" you play will not have a happy ending...............

Originally posted by undo
The issue is, if Enlil was a pagan god, what's with the oldest texts on earth attributing him with the exploits of Jehovah?

GOD predates time itself. Perhaps it is his exploits that were written down before the tower of baable fell. Perhaps even from before the floor..........perhaps even after the 6th day of creation.............before the seen of adam began.................

Originally posted by heliosprime


GOD predates time itself. Perhaps it is his exploits that were written down before the tower of baable fell. Perhaps even from before the floor..........perhaps even after the 6th day of creation.............before the seen of adam began.................

I tend to agree with this but only to the extent of God predating time and his exploits being written down. Problem is, we don't get to see the original writings that the Enlil rendition is based on. Those must be lost or something. My theory is, the human populace was enslaved./ Their version is the one where Jehovah made man in his image and the version of the rulers of the time was where they made man in their image (which I theorize was not a creation event at all but a stargate event that culminated in human enslavement on this planet). Trouble is differentiating the two since they both seem to have so much in common with each other. Enki, for example, really seems like he fits the bill of the biblical satan.

Originally posted by undo
Their version is the one where Jehovah made man in his image and the version of the rulers of the time was where they made man in their image (which I theorize was not a creation event at all but a stargate event that culminated in human enslavement on this planet). Trouble is differentiating the two since they both seem to have so much in common with each other. Enki, for example, really seems like he fits the bill of the biblical satan.

There is much we don't know about the preflood earth. Man was enslaved to the extent that mankind was poluted with the seed of fallen angels. The earth became an abomination to GOD. In my personal "fantasy theory" all the mythilogical (gods) such as apollo, etc were hybrids of fallen angels. Pan and all the half animal/man "things" were real genetic abominations, not unlike what is happening today. Growing human ears on mice and such.

All the imagination of man can not begin to match the true and real world/universe out there in GOD's domain. Science fiction can't begin to match science fact.

The entire purpose of satan to to decieve man into having doubts about the true GOD. Through things like the koran, and budda, and other fakes........

reply to post by heliosprime


Im not gonna lie and say ive read both testaments.I havent.But im just starting.From what i've HEARD,trinity isnt talked about much there.But I will find out.

There are many aspects of God that I dont understand.But hopefully the bible will make them clearer.
Im simply asking how God is personal.(from what you said)

Also I am willing to listen to theological standpoints...im not gonna "shoot them down and shake my head and claim their falsehood" like you sorta assumed.

anyways...the trinity...i was simply saying how Christian viewpoints on it are inconsistent.That bothers me because I cant understand who is right.
(again going back to me having to read the bbile myself I guess)

if you could elaborate on what you meant by "the god of the bible is...." statements I would really appreciate it.

reply to post by heliosprime


Hey, if a book says it, it MUST be true, right?

Don't try to bash and then justify with your religion. It's senseless.

Regardless of truth or not, whatever you're doing is terrible.

Originally posted by heliosprime

There is much we don't know about the preflood earth. Man was enslaved to the extent that mankind was poluted with the seed of fallen angels. The earth became an abomination to GOD. In my personal "fantasy theory" all the mythilogical (gods) such as apollo, etc were hybrids of fallen angels. Pan and all the half animal/man "things" were real genetic abominations, not unlike what is happening today. Growing human ears on mice and such.

All the imagination of man can not begin to match the true and real world/universe out there in GOD's domain. Science fiction can't begin to match science fact.

The entire purpose of satan to to decieve man into having doubts about the true GOD. Through things like the koran, and budda, and other fakes........

Oh I don't think it's a fantasy theory at all. It sounds quite accurate, actually. All the other ancient texts support the idea. This is why I'm leary to just up and call Enlil (since I think the etymology proves Al'lah was Enlil) Satan. You have millenia of angelic and human interference with the species of earth and its knowledge. If something or someone from the ancient texts sounds very similar to the real mccoy, chances are the reality may be that the texts were tinkered but not the foundational meaning of the texts - they may still be relevant. In other words, it may be that Enlil was attributed with other exploits that were not his own and then again, it may be that the differences are more related to modifications to the original texts and stories, which is what the muslims also believe.

That they approach their understanding of God differently, does not nullify God, in other words. If Enlil was not the source of the word Elohiym (as God of the gods), why does his name also etymologically equal EL? Yeah, the ancient texts are occassionally confusing and messed up, but I would tread lightly with that whole "he is Satan" thing, when in fact the problem may be the interpretation and not the original name holder. Know what I mean?

[edit on 8-2-2008 by undo]

Originally posted by Austin9599945
There are many aspects of God that I dont understand.But hopefully the bible will make them clearer.
Im simply asking how God is personal.(from what you said)

anyways...the trinity...i was simply saying how Christian viewpoints on it are inconsistent.That bothers me because I cant understand who is right.
(again going back to me having to read the bbile myself I guess)

if you could elaborate on what you meant by "the god of the bible is...." statements I would really appreciate it.

Personal GOD...before Jesus there was a vail stoping all but the high preist from entering the "holy-of-holys". When Jesus died and assended that vail was "torn" top to bottom indicating a one-on-one relationship with GOD thru Jesus. Thus "personal" GOD.

As for the trinity............it-ain't-so as it is currently taught.

There is GOD the father
Jesus the son
the Holy Spirit.......

Three seperate entities.....................

For reference..........Jesus did not pray to himself......he prayed to his father. If they were all-in-one..........he would have said pray to ME.........

He taught us to pray."Our father who is in heaven....."......and "his will be done" not my will be done...........

reply to post by Kyuubi


So basically your answer is to point fingers and scream "hater"? Please show me data showing the points I raise are wrong..........