If Satan Is Not Omnipotent....

Below are questions i have picked from a list of 100 taken from the web site,www.usbible.com

I have asked many myself,no doubt others have done so too.
And i am aware that several of these subjects have been talked about oh so many times on ATS,but this time,i want it to be different.
I want to see if people can give me answers without using phrases such as,"God works in mysterious ways." and "Its all part of Gods divine plan."
Such sayings are a cop out and usually mean many are in denial about the kinda being God truly is.


If Satan is not omnipotent, then how does he manage to divert millions of souls to hell?
If God brought Satan into existence, then doesn’t it follow that God is the origin of evil?
How can God hate evil and yet allow the Devil to exist when he possesses the omnipotent power to destroy him?
If the Devil is a fallen angel as Christians teach, who tempted him or caused him to fall?
How could he be tempted if there was no Satan to tempt him?
Would God create him if he knew he would turn out diabolical?
If God did not know how he would turn out, then how could he be all wise?
Did God tempt Satan? It couldn’t be other angels, for they were all good.
How could this perfect archangel fall in heaven when everything was perfect before Adam and Eve was tempted?
If there was a war in heaven at the start of the Apocalypse, what assurances are there that the saved won’t find themselves in the midst of other future bloody conflicts a thousand years later when Satan returns?
What assurances are there that another archangel may instantly fall as what happened during the first creation?
Since the Devil can transfer himself into an angel of light, what chance does any right believing Christian have from being deceived?
Where did Satan get the light from?
Assuming God saw Satan fall, why did he allow him in Eden?
As the sole Creator, didn’t God create the great bottomless pit called Hell?
The Bible does not say when God created Hell, but wouldn’t it have to be before or on the same day he created man and woman? Man and woman were created on the sixth and last day
With Hell ready and waiting, doesn’t it appear that God expected Adam and Even to fall?
Since Satan appears to be enjoying his lower domain, doesn’t it appear God rewarded Satan?
Since Christians believe it is God who sends mortal souls to Hell, isn’t Satan acting as God’s agent?
Considering the thousands of people who die every day and the high odds of being sent to Hell, doesn’t it appear that God is rewarding Satan for his deviancy?
If we consider that Satan has been winning against God for so long, doesn’t that make Satan the stronger power?
If God is winning against Satan, why would he need to destroy the world and remake it?
If nothing is impossible with God, then wouldn’t it mean that God has chosen to let Satan thrive?
Christians believe that Jesus died for Adam’s first sin. Doesn’t that mean that God preserved sin through Noah and his family?
Doesn’t the Great Flood mean that God failed to eliminate sin through mass genocide?
Doesn’t the Great Flood mean that God didn’t or couldn’t destroy Satan?
How can a soul, which has no physical properties, burn in Hell?
With nothing to burn, how can there be fire in Hell?
How can anything burn forever without being consumed? Even stars consume their fuel?
Considering that it is God who orders eternal punishment doesn’t that make him wicked far beyond anything humanly possible?
If God is perfectly good and kind hearted, wouldn’t he experience some discomfort by such draconian punishment?
Since he continues to do it, wouldn’t it seem that he is not discomfited enough to stop?
Could a just God punish humans for acting on the impulses they were created with?
When God saw early on his creation going badly, why did he not make corrections then when the human population was much smaller?
If God is infinitely intelligent, how could he have made such a horrible mistake?
Can a soul experience pleasure and pain without a body?
Isn’t it terribly hypocritical for God to ask us to love our enemies and yet arbitrarily refuse to forgive even those who proclaim to love him but have committed minor transgressions?
Can a man be truly virtuous when he refrains from evil merely from fear of the Devil and Hell?
Doesn’t virtue come from volition because it is the right thing to do?
How could Eve & Adam know good from evil if they had to eat the fruit to know good from evil?
Didn’t they act on the impulses they were created with?
How did the Serpent know that God would not punish them as he threatened?
Didn’t God have the perfect chance to kill Adam and Even and create two more in their place?
Why didn’t he act when the destruction would affect two people instead of waiting so long when it would affect earth and billions?
By any stretch of imagination could there be an intelligent being, intelligent enough to create the whole universe and yet be thwarted on the first day after creation by a fallen angel disguised as a talking snake?
If God is everywhere, wouldn’t he be in hell too?
When God created humans and said,he came from dust and will return to dust,doesn't that mean that death had already been created as a destination for humans?
When God threw Adam & Eve out of the Garden of Eden because he did not want them to eat from the Tree of Life,does that not mean that humans were not meant to live forever as we have been taught to believe?

LOL Thats because people are "Satan". When a person does evil and bad things and stops love and goodness, they are "Satan". They believed in teachings that prevented goodness and love, therefore they worshipped Satan. In the gospel of Thomas Jesus told Thomas a secret that if he told others they'd stone Thomas. Now you know what that secret is.



[edit on 11-1-2008 by Shawn B.]

The answer to most of your questions is simply "free will."

Why did God put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden then tell Adam and Eve not to eat it? Or even when He knew they would eat it? Because without any other options, there is no free will. The New Testament explains this in further detail as to why God did it the way He did, why there is still evil in the world, and the spiritual principles behind most of them.

When God threw Adam & Eve out of the Garden of Eden because he did not want them to eat from the Tree of Life,does that not mean that humans were not meant to live forever as we have been taught to believe?

As hard as this is to accept, death is actually a blessing. God prevented us from living forever for our own good. Could you imagine what kind of world we would live in if no one ever died? Imagine having a world full of the hundreds of evil people that existed in the past. God knew what could happen once sin crept into the world. It was an act of mercy that we would not have to live here forever but that eventually we would be released from the corrupted order. I believe this is why we are told the deaths of the saints are precious in His eyes. This is because we are finally free of the bondage of this earthly body.

Why would God create people He knew would end up in Hell? It's hard to imagine but no one is there on a technicality. No one is there who did not choose to be there. It sounds cruel to man's logic but none of us can say we weren't warned. It is a conscious choice.

As hard as this is to accept, death is actually a blessing. God prevented us from living forever for our own good. Could you imagine what kind of world we would live in if no one ever died? Imagine having a world full of the hundreds of evil people that existed in the past. God knew what could happen once sin crept into the world. It was an act of mercy that we would not have to live here forever but that eventually we would be released from the corrupted order. I believe this is why we are told the deaths of the saints are precious in His eyes. This is because we are finally free of the bondage of this earthly body.

It was an act of mercy?
God could create a world where we could live forever with the absence of sin and evil,couldn't he??

And,as 1 of the question says,as humans where taken from the ground we would return to it,meaning we would one day die.so at what time were we in a state of living forever when God has clearly stated otherwise?

reply to post by Shawn B.

They believed in teachings that prevented goodness and love, therefore they worshipped Satan.

You don't have to worship Satan to be a sinner.Simply by not believing in God,Jesus or Satan you are condemned to hell,even if you have lived a good life!

Satan is an evil force at work in people. He uses people to get your attention and replace the peace and good thoughts with those of worry and confusion. His aim (trick) is to make you double-minded.

Satan rebelled and was cast out. In order to rule, he needed people to rule, so he had to get the people that were God’s. Satan is a thief and will steal your soul if you let him.

Satan will self destruct when the knowledge of God (truth) is in full effect. People hold the power to make his wicked plans dissipate.

His lust for power.

Both natures exist and will persist until Jesus returns to reclaim the earth.

If your hope is for love and not dominion, yes.

He is all wise and he lets people decide for themselves who they will serve.

There is only one good, and that is God.

No, Satan’s insatiable greed caused him to fall.

The very thought of perfection will alienate one from God. If the glory belongs to God, then thoughts of right and wrong, perfect and defective do not exist.

Satan and the powers of darkness rule and have been ruling. When Jesus returns Satan will be cast out. True believers are in a battle, you can not buy or sell without the mark of the beast (the world system and man’s doing).

People fall when they stray and some are cast into prison because they know the truth.

The devil cloaks his motives and covers them with benevolence. The only chance for Christians is the blood of Jesus, “for the just will live by faith”. That means that no matter what the devil says you believe the words that Jesus said.

Where did Satan get the light from?

I do not know.

God rules over the just, the loving, the merciful.

Hell is the absence of God.

No. Adam and Eve were instructed not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Again, judgment brings judgment. Once the mind has been polluted and people learn what wickedness is being perpetrated, it is very hard not to become judgmental and or vindictive. In Revelations it says to do the “first works”, that is to do what you did before the revelation.

It appears that way, but, the truth is it will end. There is a verse in the Bible that says “I saw rich men walking and paupers riding”, and also, “they have their reward” that means in their current life (now), but it ends in destruction.

God does not send anyone to hell. Some Christians are misinformed and may not be aware of the depths of Satan.

God knows the heart and the trials of faith. “Be constant in season and out of season.

Every one does not die.

It may appear that Satan’s people are winning, but, that is part of the deception and a trick. Jesus made a promise that whatever we give up for the kingdom we will receive more.

As in nature, when a plant or tree is at its fullness it must be pruned.

People cause Satan to thrive. Without the participation (willing and unwilling) of people Satan would vanish.

I believe that Jesus came because God’s people were perishing for lack of knowledge.

God did not cause mass genocide, but, God gave a warning that was heeded by Noah and his family. They thought Noah was crazy. That region had hardly if at all seen rain and could not imagine why Noah would build a boat.

Desire will burn in one but, attainment will not manifest.

If people were good and kind hearted wouldn’t THEY experience some discomfort by killing, wars, stealing, coveting, baring false witness, etc.

People are influenced by Satan and God knows where the good wheat is planted and He knows who planted the tares.

I think He did. Where are those great civilizations of yesteryear?

If you forgive God will forgive. Satan will try to convince people otherwise, but, Satan is a liar and the father of lies.

“’though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil”. Faith, hope, love and charity, and the greatest is charity.


[edit on 11-1-2008 by Siren]

Satan will self destruct when the knowledge of God (truth) is in full effect. People hold the power to make his wicked plans dissipate.

But God has more power.
God,if we ignore the fact that he didn't have to create evil in the 1st place,could change everything whenever he wanted(and not in a violent way like he did with his global mass genocide flood.)He could make it so no one has to suffer at all,yet he plays this game with our lives and expects us to humble ourselves to him and thank him for his mercy for protecting us from the evil he created!

If people were good and kind hearted wouldn’t THEY experience some discomfort by killing, wars, stealing, coveting, baring false witness, etc.

Not really.After Moses brought the Commandments down from the mountain,which included,Thou shall not kill/Thou shall not commit murder,he (with many others) slaughtered 1000's of his own people for worshiping a golden calf,and God was ok with that!
Killing in the name of God seems to have the opposite effect of discomfort or guilt,you feel reighteous and empowered.

God did not cause mass genocide, but, God gave a warning that was heeded by Noah and his family. They thought Noah was crazy. That region had hardly if at all seen rain and could not imagine why Noah would build a boat.

Er,what? lol.As i said above God did not have to kill 99% of all life on this planet,he could have done it in a none violent manner.But instead he committed a crime against humanity,and billions of people think he's wonderful!!
It also changed nothing.It did not destroy the corruption that had made him so angry and upset,so millions of lives were lost for nothing!!

[edit on 11-1-2008 by jakyll]

Originally posted by jakyll


You don't have to worship Satan to be a sinner.Simply by not believing in God,Jesus or Satan you are condemned to hell,even if you have lived a good life!

My concept of worship is different from yours. No they don't silly, that's ridiculous. God is pure good and loving. Why would God deny that which God is?

reply to post by jakyll

So many questions in one place. :shk: That's how we Orthodox look at this:

THE FALL OF ANGELS(16)

First of all, this event happened before the fall of man. The cause of the fall of some angels is that they rebelled against God. Their leader was one of the most beautiful Cherubim; he was gifted much more than the others in divine grace, according to the prophet Isaiah: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north, I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.' Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit" (Isaiah 14:12-15).

The prophet Ezekiel symbolizes the king of Tyre with the fallen Cherubim: "Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty, thou hast been in Eden the garden of God … Thou was perfect in thy ways from the day that thou has been created until iniquity was found in thee … therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God, and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire … I will cast thee to the ground" (Ezekiel 28:12-18). This fall was as fast as the lightning described by the Lord Jesus Himself in the gospel of St. Luke: "I beheld satan as lightning fall from heaven" (Luke 10:18).

This fallen Cherubim attracted to him a number of angels of different ranks, some from the higher ranks, and he took them with him. They were expelled from paradise, so they wandered on earth. The Archangel Michael resisted the devil rebeller and his companions, and a war happened in heaven. "Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found anymore in heaven" (Revelation 12:7-8). As St. Ignatius Brianchaninov describes it, "the devil carried with him one third of the angels and threw them on earth." Then, the Archangel Michael cried in a loud voice, "let us attend" not to fall with the devil and his angels. He did not dare to judge the devil, he just demanded attention and vigil once, and from that time the relation between the angels loyal to God got stronger by grace and they were not subject to evil. From that time, there is a strong war between the angels loyal to God and the devil and his angels. All the gifts that were for the demons were turned to evil. The devil was called "Satan," a Hebrew word meaning "enemy," which parallels the Greek word diabolis, which means "divider." The word demon is Greek and means "the fallen angel."

St. Ignatius Brianchaninov describes that, before the fall of Adam, the devil was wandering the sky having within him a feeling of great emptiness. God allowed him by His great compassion and mercy to enter the paradise of Eden in order to contemplate its beauty and give him a chance to repent. But he was jealous of Adam and Eve, tried with all his force to cast them out of paradise, and succeeded in casting Adam and Eve out of paradise and even bringing them under his control. In that way the devil lost every hope of coming back to God.


[edit on 12-1-2008 by Vojvoda]

From the instance of the fall of man, there is a great conflict within the human person between the angels of light and angels of darkness. The angels of light were sent by God to help the humans even from the era of the Old Testament. We see the Archangel Gabriel in charge of Israel when they left Egypt, Archangel Raphael helping Tobit, Michael sent to help Joshua, son of Nun, and arguing with the devil regarding the body of Moses. However, the devil was always trying to make humans sin, but without knowing he is doing the will of God, because every evil ends always with goodness. The devil, then, became an instrument of God's trial to men.

From here: The Angles

Hope it helped.



[edit on 12-1-2008 by Vojvoda]

quote]Originally posted by jakyll
Below are questions i have picked from a list of 100 taken from the web site,www.usbible.com

I have asked many myself,no doubt others have done so too.......
If Satan is not omnipotent, then how does he manage to divert millions of souls to hell?
Satan has power of thought!
Demons put the thought toward doing evil, and people use their free will to either listen or to not listen.
A common lie used is that Satan has control of ones soul...this is not so.....God always listens to a repentant soul, even at ones death bed.

If God brought Satan into existence, then doesn’t it follow that God is the origin of evil?

God did not bring Satan into existence.
Satan was known as Lucifer,before he fell down to earth along with him he took thousands, upon thousands(infinite number)
As an Angel created by God,all He created is good.
Satan and his fallen Angels made the decision to be away from God.

How can God hate evil and yet allow the Devil to exist when he possesses the omnipotent power to destroy him?

God hates evil but does not intervene at this time.
At the end of the world, 'Judgement Day' is when justice will be done....it will not be because God wishes it, but because ones own judgement will convict.

If the Devil is a fallen angel as Christians teach, who tempted him or caused him to fall?

Lucifer fell and became Satan on his own accord.....his Pride got the better of him.

How could he be tempted if there was no Satan to tempt him?
Would God create him if he knew he would turn out diabolical?

Angels are created without a body......temptation of the flesh is easier.
Angels were created to be with God.
''"When the stars were made, all My angels praised Me with a loud voice" (Job 38:7''
Angels are spiritual beings and therefore cannot physically die..../they cannot die (Luke 20:36)
Lucifer(as was his name)chose to not serve God.......St. Jude says: "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains, under darkness, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire" (Jude v. 6)
God allowed free will to all.

If God did not know how he would turn out, then how could he be all wise?
Did God tempt Satan? It couldn’t be other angels, for they were all good.
How could this perfect archangel fall in heaven when everything was perfect before Adam and Eve was tempted?

God is all wise but allowed it to happen because it is ...'free will'
God did not tempt Lucifer.....Lucifer was created as a mighty and beautiful archangel, one of the most perfect and radiant,
and for this reason he was given the name Lucifer, "the light-bearer"
Pride got the better of him.......Lucifer wanted to be the most high.
Jesus Christ says......"I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven," says Christ (Luke 10:18)

If there was a war in heaven at the start of the Apocalypse, what assurances are there that the saved won’t find themselves in the midst of other future bloody conflicts a thousand years later when Satan returns?

The Apocalypse is the end of all earthly life......life will not be as it was known or is known today!
Satan(the Devil) and his demons will go to the everlasting fire......this is their home for ever. for they did this on their own free will....to be away from God and His faithful Angels.
If one believes Revelation as it is....there will be no other temptations from Satan and his demons...

What assurances are there that another archangel may instantly fall as what happened during the first creation?
Since the Devil can transfer himself into an angel of light, what chance does any right believing Christian have from being deceived?
Where did Satan get the light from?

Again, if one reads Scripture concerning the end of times......After Judgement Day, all will receive according to their deeds...Gods Mercy.
There can be no more Angels falling......this is only for 'Hollywood' believers in the making.
Angel is another name for messenger....It is better to disbelieve then to believe you are worthy to be visited by an Angel of God.
Christians should be humble, never proud.
What 'light'?

Assuming God saw Satan fall, why did he allow him in Eden?

Satan and those that wished to follow him fell to earth.....thus became 'fallen Angels'

As the sole Creator, didn’t God create the great bottomless pit called Hell?

God created hell.......it is also known as outer darkness,being away from God.
The devil and his demons chose to be away from God and rule in pride.

The Bible does not say when God created Hell, but wouldn’t it have to be before or on the same day he created man and woman? Man and woman were created on the sixth and last day
With Hell ready and waiting, doesn’t it appear that God expected Adam and Even to fall?

God did not create Hell.......Darkness.
When Satan fell away from God........He led himself to outer Darkness, away from God.
God created man Adam(means.. first man)and in turn man chose to be away from God.......from breaking the one commandement of God.
Adam and EVEN?

I know, you mean Eve.....God made man from the earth and a soul(breathed life into them....part of Himself)God allowed man to choose,and man chose to disobey God.
This allowed man to change everything around them....nature and all living things around them changed as a result of the disobedience.....Death came as a result.....Angelic beings do not die!

Since Satan appears to be enjoying his lower domain, doesn’t it appear God rewarded Satan?

Satan is by far enjoying his lower domain.
Satan knows his time is limited and therefore all kinds of deceptive ideas rush to him and his demons....only because he wishes our downfall with his.

Since Christians believe it is God who sends mortal souls to Hell, isn’t Satan acting as God’s agent?
Considering the thousands of people who die every day and the high odds of being sent to Hell, doesn’t it appear that God is rewarding Satan for his deviancy?
If we consider that Satan has been winning against God for so long, doesn’t that make Satan the stronger power?

Again,Satan just sets the trap.......man has free will to Chose good over evil.
God wishes all to be saved...there is no reward for satan and his demons.
Judgement Day.....is when Justice is done for each and everyone of us....."Final Destination"

If God is winning against Satan, why would he need to destroy the world and remake it?

It's not about winning.
The world is destroyed by mankind....man has destroyed what was good and therefore will get their final reward for eternity.
God will not Re-make the world.

If nothing is impossible with God, then wouldn’t it mean that God has chosen to let Satan thrive?

God allows man to choose which path they want to go on.....Scripture is clear which path leads to what.
Satan only thrives on mans disobedience to Gods Word.
Satan has as much right as man.....Satan knows his destiny..man has a choice he must make.

Christians believe that Jesus died for Adam’s first sin.
Doesn’t that mean that God preserved sin through Noah and his family?

Correction....Christianity believes that Jesus Christ died for all mankind....
death came as a result of Adam and Eve disobeying God.(ate from the tree of life and death)
Sin.....equals death of the body.
returning the body back to the earth and the Soul remaining in waiting for Gods Final Judgement.
The way for man to be reconsiled with God again,prior to the fall(as Adam and Eve were created perfect)is through the blood of Christ..man needed a Saviour(In Genesis prophesied)

Doesn’t the Great Flood mean that God failed to eliminate sin through mass genocide?

The Flood was a type of Babtism....water is a type of Purification.
God allowed man to see good over evil...man chose not to do so.....the warning came through Noah and his family.

Doesn’t the Great Flood mean that God didn’t or couldn’t destroy Satan?

Satan was not the subject here.....Flood happened because man lived according to their passions and disobeyed all that was good.

How can a soul, which has no physical properties, burn in Hell?
With nothing to burn, how can there be fire in Hell?
How can anything burn forever without being consumed? Even stars consume their fuel?

Fire......is also seen as an element of purification.....all that touches fire 'burn' and that which turns to ash or melts, keeps burning on...
A soul in its state of knowing and doing evil.......will experience the same evil toward ones self for eternity.
Hell is 'outer darkness' without God.
It is also known that there are various degrees of heavenly realms as there is hell(Toll Houses)...each shall experience according to ones failings or non repentence.

Considering that it is God who orders eternal punishment
doesn’t that make him wicked far beyond anything humanly possible?

Eternal Punishment is a choice for each of us.....God is not Wicked, man must make that choice on his own accord which path to take....

If God is perfectly good and kind hearted, wouldn’t he experience some discomfort by such draconian punishment?

Yes.
Jesus Christ forgave those that Crucified him, whilst on the Cross.
Man chooses freely......God does according to what man chose out of his free will.

Since he continues to do it, wouldn’t it seem that he is not discomfited enough to stop?
Could a just God punish humans for acting on the impulses they were created with?

Continues to do what?
Are you talking about the punishment we shall receive at Judgement Day?
This eternal punishment will be not because God wishes it, but because man does not believe the Word of God.
Acting on impulses.....we talking about SIN

continued......to Answer Original post///

Since he continues to do it, wouldn’t it seem that he is not discomfited enough to stop?
Could a just God punish humans for acting on the impulses they were created with?

Continues to do what?
Are you talking about the punishment we shall receive at Judgement Day?
This eternal punishment will be not because God wishes it, but because man does not believe the Word of God.
Acting on impulses.....we talking about SIN?
Sin actually means to miss the mark....a repantant soul, God forgives.
It is also Gods Mercy that will save us.

When God saw early on his creation going badly,
why did he not make corrections then when the human population was much smaller?

God did not create robots....He created man, with a Body and Soul.
God allowed man his 'free will'.....120 years was given to man, to correct their ways and repent of their evil ways.(Noah and the Flood)

If God is infinitely intelligent, how could he have made such a horrible mistake?

What mistake?
God created perfect man.
Remember it was Man's choice to be away from God.

Can a soul experience pleasure and pain without a body?

The soul is said to experience what one has done in the Body...it will experience either Joy, or despair, depending on the state it was prior to death.

Isn’t it terribly hypocritical for God to ask us to love our enemies and
yet arbitrarily refuse to forgive even those who proclaim to love him but have committed minor transgressions?

God is all just!
Love one's enemies......it is easy to love those that only do us good.
To love those that hurt us, is not an easy task.
If one was to attack us, and we attacked back, then we are no more guily then they who did it in the first place.
What do you consider as 'minor transgression'?
If one is truly repentant of ones misconduct, then God's Mercy will be shown.

Can a man be truly virtuous when he refrains from evil merely from fear of the Devil and Hell?

Great question!
It is known that if a man fears God and the eternal punishment that awaits him,, then man will always remember their fault and repent before it becomes a greater one.
It is not an easy thing to do....since man will always falter in some way....what one needs to do is get up each time and keep getting up.
There is a book called ''The Philokalia'' written by various fathers/monks of the church..it teaches one to be humble and in constant prayer of the heart.Lord Have Mercy on me a sinner'' it shows that we are inded in need of Gods Mercy.

Doesn’t virtue come from volition because it is the right thing to do?

sorry...can you explain this again?

How could Eve & Adam know good from evil if they had to eat the fruit to know good from evil?
Didn’t they act on the impulses they were created with?

Man was created with a body and soul....they knew not evil.
God is all good and created them like Himself,knowing all good.
God told them not to eat because they would surely die(bodily death)
This was one commandement they were to follow....a restraint from food....fasting!
Jesus Christ fasted after He was Babtised...He was also Tempted at this time,as was the case with Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden...

How did the Serpent know that God would not punish them as he threatened?

What do you mean?
Gods punishment was that it would bring DEATH....death came as a result of SIN.

Didn’t God have the perfect chance to kill Adam and Even and create two more in their place?

I'm sure this is easy enough for man, but God created man to think for himself...otherwise it would become a game!
Let's say God did do this,would not the same result occur?
What happens next?

Why didn’t he act when the destruction would affect two people instead of waiting so long
when it would affect earth and billions?

I guess,the same result as above would occur!

By any stretch of imagination could there be an intelligent being,
intelligent enough to create the whole universe and yet be thwarted on the first day after creation by a fallen angel
disguised as a talking snake?

As we know from Genesis, man was created after the War in the heavens which took place with the Angels...thousands , upon thousands of Angels fell, choosing to go with the fallen Lucifer.
Also known that once the exact number of 'fallen Angels' replace the Heavens,it is also the End of the World...(Mount Athos, 13 souls roam...waiting for the end because 13 souls are needed to end the world...ask me?)
The Devil was jelous of God creating man in place of his fallen state, that he seduced Eve into eating of the fruit.
Seduced...the pleasure that comes with food,the satisfaction of having been filled.

If God is everywhere, wouldn’t he be in hell too?
When God created humans and said,he came from dust and will return to dust,doesn't that mean that death
had already been created as a destination for humans?

Yes,God is everywhere!
Well, God knew what would happen.
Again, God did not want to play games and not make man and re make him over again. God wanted man to make their own choice.
God also knew He had to save man from his fallen state.....He took Flesh and became Man because He loved Mankind.
God replaced the Fallen Angels with Man.....making man a little higher then Angels.
The Image and likeness of God is in each of us...God is expressed in the free will of man!

When God threw Adam & Eve out of the Garden of Eden because he did not want them to eat from the Tree of Life,
does that not mean that humans were not meant to live forever as we have been taught to believe?

God created Man with a choice to love Him or reject Him.
Man was given all tha was needed in the garden of Eden...Man was also given one Commandement to follow ''not to eat of the fruit of the tree of Knowledge of good and evil''..by fullfilling this ONE commandement, man showed their Love toward God.
''the Lord breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;and man became a living soul(Genesis 2:7)
Angelic beings have no body....they neither eat or drink nor experience death!
Man was created from the earth(body)and the soul of man is because man was created after the fallen angels.

"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains, under darkness, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire" (Jude v. 6).

(Acts 2:23) Him, being delivered by [1] the determined purpose and [2] foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands ,
have crucified, and put to death.
(Romans 8:29) For whom He Foreknew,
He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son,
that he might be the firstborn of many brethren.
Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these he also justified;and whom He justified, these He also Glorified.

reply to post by helen670

Lucifer fell and became Satan on his own accord.....his Pride got the better of him.

Well that means Pride had to exist as a Sin before that time,therefore someone must have tempted Lucifer!
Lucifer could not manifest something that God had not already planned out surely!


I should also point out that on the subject of Hell's creation you contradict yourself.

[edit on 12-1-2008 by jakyll]

reply to post by helen670

Doesn’t virtue come from volition because it is the right thing to do?

sorry...can you explain this again?

I guess i mean that doing good to your fellow man is common sence.We all have a conscience so making a choice to do the right thing does not need to involve a god.

Didn’t God have the perfect chance to kill Adam and Even and create two more in their place?

I'm sure this is easy enough for man, but God created man to think for himself...otherwise it would become a game!

I don't think Adam & Eve were meant to think for themselves,everything they needed to survive was provided for them,God had created a perfect lil bubble for them.



Thank you for your replies btw,good of you to try and reply to all the questions.

reply to post by Vojvoda

However, the devil was always trying to make humans sin, but without knowing he is doing the will of God, because every evil ends always with goodness. The devil, then, became an instrument of God's trial to men.

Have you ever thought that the Devil isn't actually evil,but that he,as you say is working for God,but along side him not apart from him?
Lucifer's job was to test mankind's faith and isn't that what he continues to do? For without corruption how can God test a humans devotion?

Man has always personified actions and emotions in a spiritual form which is what Christianity has done with evil (note,no concept of evil appears in Judaism.) probably because they can't get their heads around the fact that God is the creator of every single last thing and knows that without the balance of darkness to the light nothing would be as it should.

Originally posted by jakyll
It was an act of mercy?
God could create a world where we could live forever with the absence of sin and evil,couldn't he??

He could have and He did. But humans messed it up- not Him. We wanted to and still want to do it our way.

Why did Satan and the angels rebel? Free will. How on earth could anyone know Him and still reject Him? How could the Pharisees see everything Jesus did when He fulfilled the prophecies and came at the exact time the Old Testament said the Messiah would come (to the very year) and still reject Him? It's insanity but it happened and it happens every day.

How can people miss the signs that are going on in the world today even when the Bible specifically said they would happen in the order they are happening? It's not that we don't know or can't know, it's that we refuse to see.

And,as 1 of the question says,as humans where taken from the ground we would return to it,meaning we would one day die.so at what time were we in a state of living forever when God has clearly stated otherwise?

Prior to the fall. It was very short lived. It didn't take long at all for us to bunk it all up, unfortunately.

You don't have to worship Satan to be a sinner.Simply by not believing in God,Jesus or Satan you are condemned to hell,even if you have lived a good life!

What is a good life? We are told our righteousness is like filthy rags. Man's definition of "good" is always in flux. It's not about being "good" especially when the definition of "good" changes whenever we want it to. No, we are told the door is open whether we are "good" or "bad." All we have to do is believe. That's it. Believe in the one that was sent and we know the one that was sent is Jesus Christ. He will take everyone of us, warts and all.

He set it up like this because He knew it was impossible for us to do it on our own. Good works might be a side effect of our conversion but He doesn't say perfect yourself then come to Me. He says come to Me then I will perfect you.

Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by helen670

 

Lucifer fell and became Satan on his own accord.....his Pride got the better of him.

Well that means Pride had to exist as a Sin before that time,therefore someone must have tempted Lucifer!
Lucifer could not manifest something that God had not already planned out surely!


I should also point out that on the subject of Hell's creation you contradict yourself.

[edit on 12-1-2008 by jakyll]

Angels were not created with a body..therefore are bodiless and immortal spirits.
Angels are divided into ranks according to degrees of perfection....

Lucifer wanted to be God....this could not happen as God is God.
God never gave angelic beings are a choice......they simply loved Him on their own accord.
The Fallen angels fell to 'Hades'(nether regions) a place away from God!
This place was before earth was created...In the beginning God created Heaven and the Earth(Gen 1:1)then it goes on to say..The earth was without form and void;and darkness was upon the face of the deep............(Gen 1:2)
Is it not the same as to what Judas Iscariot did to Christ?
'Pride' did not allow Judas Iscariot(spelling?) to repent but be humiliated as to what he had done...causing to fall into despair and lose his soul over Pride.

Hell?
gee, it took me over 3 hours to reply to your post....show me where?

helen
EDIT....spelling
:shk:



[edit on 1/12/2008 by helen670]

Free Will is the answer to most of these questions. Angels were created approximately 6 Million years ago. Satan fell approximately 6,000 years ago - so harmony with Father wasn't so short-lived. They were not divided into ranks according to perfection - they were ALL created perfect. The different ranks are called "Orders" and each Order performs specific duties for our Father.

Harmony existed for a very long time before Satan's pride welled up within him and led to the act of deceiving Eve. Since then, the Spiritual War has been raging. Mankind is the pawn in the fight between good and evil. Because the angels were created in perfection and well knew what would happen if they rebelled against Father's commandments, they cannot be forgiven and are not included under Christ's ransom sacrifice.

Right now evil is the cancer that rages and it will be destroyed. Perfect harmony with our creator will exist again.

Originally posted by AshleyD
The answer to most of your questions is simply "free will."

I disagree with this statement. I thought the questions would be hard, but in fact I found all of them quite easy to answer because I believe in destiny.

Free will assumes so much that you had to say that "most" of the questions were explained by it, and still you would have some explaining to do, I am sure.

If everything is predestined and you assume God authored good and evil, then everything makes a whole lot more sense.

The biggest thing that jumps out at me about all those are that given "free will", and eternity, there is nothing stopping any other spirit from rebelling again like Satan did. In other words, war can break out in Heaven again if given enough time and that can't happen for the Bible tells us after the judgment there will be eternal peace.

I know, I know, you will now say that everyone in Heaven then will never rebel because they are righteous, but it is likely that they would if given free will and enough time. In fact, it has to happen.

Originally posted by ben91069
Free will assumes so much that you had to say that "most" of the questions were explained by it, and still you would have some explaining to do, I am sure.

But this is exactly what "most" of your questions pertain to (mostly the first half of your questions). Why did Satan do this? Why did the angels do that? Why does/did man do/did this? Because God didn't create zombies.

If everything is predestined and you assume God authored good and evil, then everything makes a whole lot more sense.

Let me put it into perspective. If you are a parent, do you keep your children locked in a basement so they will never misbehave? Or do you let them make their own mistakes knowing they will get into trouble eventually? So, just like you know your children are going to do bad things, you still let them make their own choices and know they will face the consequences of their actions and choices. It's the same with God. Just because He knows the way it will turn out does not mean He is controlling it. Just like if you know your children will eventually get into trouble does not mean you are laying the foundation for their future problems.

This all comes back to the principle of personal responsibility that somehow died in our culture some decades ago.

The biggest thing that jumps out at me about all those are that given "free will", and eternity, there is nothing stopping any other spirit from rebelling again like Satan did. In other words, war can break out in Heaven again if given enough time and that can't happen for the Bible tells us after the judgment there will be eternal peace.

True, but hopefully none of us will be stupid enough to do it again after we see the havoc it caused the first time. I'm hoping God will remove all forms of temptation at options at this time to prevent it but again, we're not zombies. Many have asked before if there will be another rebellion in Heaven when all is said in done. I hope not but how can I know?