Dogon Alien “Mystery” Demystified

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by dragnet53
yeah, I don't get skeptics why they always have to debunk something. It is as if they want that feeling of accomplishment in their lives.

Appeal to Ridicule.

Originally posted by dragnet53
I thought the Dogon tribe was quite good evidence since they aren't after money and fame like the so called "civilized" people do.

Appeal to poverty.

all opinion and not fact.


NEXT!!

in the end its a theory that they were contaminated...and its a theory that they knew about it before we did

Staggering thread, and thorough research.

However, a lot of time was spent on providing evidence of cultural contamination, and not much spent on how long the Dogon have been expressing these views...

According to the OP, 1907 is when he starts to show modern Western influence...

Did the Dogon believe in their supposed ancestry before this? If so, how'd they come to the conclusions?

Originally posted by MarkusMaximus
Did the Dogon believe in their supposed ancestry before this? If so, how'd they come to the conclusions?

According to researchers who studied, spoke and lived with the Dogon after Griaule and Dieterlen made their claims about Sirius, the star holds no special place in Dogon folklore. And Dogon astronomical knowledge mirrors what the rest of the world knew in the 1930s, not being any more advanced despite claims they had extraterrestrial contact.

Originally posted by IsaacKoi
SECTION 3 : CONTAMINATION

[What about the Dogon themselves? Has such contamination occurred with them in relation to matters other than Sirius? Yes, it has. Van Beek has referred to “many” instances in which “foreign elements” (including Christian and Muslim traditions) “were adopted and in a single generation became ‘traditional’ … [The Dogon] see no particular reason for any fundamental distinction between things learned from their Dogon forefathers and from newcomers” (van Beek, 1991, pages 152-153).

I have a quick question.

First off, awesome collection of data! I commend you on the effort!

Second, do you know the earliest date and time, of when it was documented of this contamination? I would like to research that specifically in more detail.

I need to know the exact date, by who and where etc.

Thanks in advance!

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
I was watching the Ancient Aliens series and the Dogon Mystery was raised in the course of "The Visitors" episode ... I searched ATS for information and ran into this extraordinary thread.

It has absorbed me for the last day or so and I thought it was highly worthy of an overdue bump.

Being TV series, Ancient Astronauts should have some sort of research staff and yet a single post on the internet, written by one guy, was more informing and factual than their TV show. The information was as readily available to them as to IssacKoi, yet they chose not to make the viewer aware of it. Someone is lying to their viewers.

Thanks for the kind words.

Part of the relevant - rather biased - episode of the "Ancient Astronauts" television series is now available on Youtube:



By the way, another more recent episode of the "Ancient Astronauts" television series also generated some controversy : see "Rendlesham forest, "Ancient Aliens" episode 30.12.10 and binary numbers"

All the best,

Isaac

Originally posted by metalholic
in the end its a theory that they were contaminated...and its a theory that they knew about it before we did

Don't act so hopelessly helpless. The information itself is an indicator of its source.

The Dogon myth speaks of Saturn alone as having a ring.

Human thought that was true.

ETI visitors would have known better -- that ALL the outer planets have rings.

The others are not visible from Earth because they are in the ecliptic plane, while Saturn's is tilted.

If aliens had told the Dogon, they would have told them that all the outer planets had rings.

Whoever told the Dogon thought that only Saturn had a ring.

Originally posted by JimOberg
The Dogon myth speaks of Saturn alone as having a ring.

Human thought that was true.

ETI visitors would have known better -- that ALL the outer planets have rings.

Just to flesh out Jim's point with a few additional facts and references (including one to a page in Jim's book...), I'll repeat the relevant part of my OP for ease of reference.

Out-dated knowledge : (b) Rings around other planets

Robert Temple, and several of his researchers, have trumpeted alleged Dogon knowledge of Saturn’s rings. For example, Robert Temple has stated “Their drawing of the planet Saturn has a ring around it” (Temple, 1976, pages 27 and 29; Temple, 1998, pages 104 and 106-107).

However, the Dogon did not talk about any planet beyond Saturn with rings.

This reflected European knowledge of the 1920s-1930s.

Since the 1930s:

■A Cornell University research team led by James Elliot discovered in 1977 that the planet Uranus is surrounded by rings (Sagan, 1979, page 90).

■Jupiter was subsequently discovered to have rings as well (Oberg, 1982, page 130).

This was one of the points made in section of my OP entitled "SECTION 4: OUT-DATED KNOWLEDGE".

It may be worth repeating the opening words of that section:

Is there any evidence that the Dogon knowledge came from the West?

Yes.

Probably the most compelling evidence that the Dogon knowledge originated in the West is that the information they reportedly gave Griaule represented the state of knowledge in the West at that time.

...(READ MORE)

All the best,

Isaac

reply to post by JimOberg

Whoever told the Dogon thought that only Saturn had a ring.

Maybe they were shown, not "told".
=================================
Dogon Chief: hey partner, where do you come from?
Visitor: [points at the bright star in the sky]
Dogon Chief: wow, what's it like there?
Visitor: [whips out his ipad and shows some pictures]
Dogon Chief: neat...u got more pics?
Visitor shows something to this effect:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c087278808e7.jpg[/atsimg]
=================================
Show it to any 5yr. old and they'll ask, "why does that one have a ring?"

Originally posted by TinkererJim
Show it to any 5yr. old and they'll ask, "why does that one have a ring?"

You're really stretching -- don't throw your back out.

Show that view to an adult and they'll ask, why are all the views only from Earth's point of view?

Don't be satisfied with the answers a 5-year-old would find adequate.

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by TinkererJim
Show it to any 5yr. old and they'll ask, "why does that one have a ring?"

You're really stretching -- don't throw your back out.

Show that view to an adult and they'll ask, why are all the views only from Earth's point of view?

Don't be satisfied with the answers a 5-year-old would find adequate.

I'm just pointing out that the ring of Saturn would be the most noticing feature in such picture, wouldn't you agree? I think it's less of a stretch than pondering on why Dogans didn't receive a full course on planetary features.

Originally posted by rcchristian
Second, do you know the earliest date and time, of when it was documented of this contamination? I would like to research that specifically in more detail.

I need to know the exact date, by who and where etc.

Hi,

I'm not sure if I understand your question, but perhaps you are looking for the information in the section of my OP entitled "Contamination: Relevant dates". That part of the OP is at the link below:


www.abovetopsecret.com...

All the best,

Isaac

Isaac,
What is your take on Laird Scrantons work in light of your original article? Leaving Sirius out of the equation, isnt there simply too much coincidence between modern day theories of Quantum Theory, String theory etc. and Dogon cosmological beliefs?

There seems to be more to this now after studies such as Lairds, then there was stemming from the original observations and study conducted in the 30s, 40s and 50s. In light of the fact that some of the theories involved had not been stated at those times.

I at least have found it interesting that distinct parallels can be drawn between Dogon cosmological and symbology and todays scientific theories.

Originally posted by TekHousE
Isaac,
What is your take on Laird Scrantons work in light of your original article?

Can you post a link or give a reference? I'll have a look then.

Regards,

Isaac

reply to post by IsaacKoi


Try this for starters..

store.innertraditions.com...

Basically I watched some program on tv a while ago, Laird was in that program for a brief interview.

What got me was that although much of the rest of the program (dealing with Ancient Egypt) was typical specualtive and dramatic fare, here was this guy, a software programmer, who simply began comparing symbology of the Egyptian hieroglyphics to Dogon symobology.

I have read 2 of his books since ordering them recently. And I must say that in light of the onward march of our mainstream scientific theories of Quantum physics and those describing the creation and makeup of matter etc., some of his conclusions are amazing.

I had read the early pages of this topic and not wanting to downplay the discussions of planets, Sirius et al, I found it mostly typical back and forth bordering on flights of fancy.

Seeing as you obviously took the time to research the topic, I automatically assumed you might already have an opinion on what Laird Scranton has published.

At the very least, what he has put together, allows those interested in the subject, to put aside the conclusions offered by Marcel Griaule and Germaine Dieterlen, and instead look at it with regards to the symbology through the eyes of up to date science as hypothesized by the likes of Hawkings and Greene.

Found another link to an interview..

boingboing.net...

Laird himself is defending his work in that last link, which makes for interesting reading in itself.