Dogon Alien “Mystery” Demystified

reply to post by IsaacKoi


Exellent post and congrats'n'thx for putting together so much factual information. Basically, my own conclusion remains the same as I stated in another thread, I'll quote here:

Originally posted by v01i0
The question is, in my opinion at least, why does Griaule's description of Dogon religious myths contradict with the reports before and after his study? In my opinion, they have perhaps tried to start a new New Age-myth. Another possibility is that they learned about all this stuff from European conquerers, but that's far fetched, as it wasn't common knowledge in Europe either. 3rd option is that someone is trying to hide something. Maybe they have these rituals after all, but no one wants to admit it Go see it yourselves."

However, as van Beek has shown, other studies made about Dogons of Mali, does not collaborate with Griaule's and therefore with Temple's claims. I haven't yet read Temple's book.. I wonder if he can stand against any of these arguments stated in OP?

This nevertheless is very interesting issue. What was the real purpose of this scam and why was it deployed - no matter which side is right? If the Templeists are correct, mainstream science is hiding real knowledge about matters, but if contradictory, someone tried to install a false belief amongst Dogons and effectively amongst truth seekers generally.

This however doesn't attack the cause of ufologist and those who believe in extraterrestial visitors, because I think the ancient tables of sumerians (amongst some other creational myths) are still quite interesting.

No matter what, very good job in 'denying ignorance' IsaacKoi. I'm still browsing this thread to see what other ppl think about all this.

Happy thoughts

[edit on 28-4-2008 by v01i0]

STRICTLY FOR ADMINISTRATORS / REVIEWERS
I have information on Marcel Griaule that I am sure will be of great interest to Isaac Koi. It is contained in a private paper and I am not yet in a position to divulge this openly on your pages.
However, I should be grateful if you would pass my email addres to Mr Koi and invite him to write to me.

Here are a couple of relevant videos.

First, a relatively long (10 minute) interview of Robert Temple (the author if "The Sirius Mystery"):



Second, here is a French video featuring some of the key players in the debate:

I have Temple's book, been a long while since I read it though.

I'm not sure what to make of the discrepancies re Griaule's description of Dogon religious myths not matching with other reports. If true, this should demand an explanation.

Regardless, the other critique referenced - with the Dogon picking up the astronomical knowledge from Western visitors - is hardly convincing. Such an explanation is more guesswork than anything else.

Dogon'it... This is waYyyy to much information to go over in single day...!!!
There must be a viable way to condense this valuable info into a paragraph

[edit on 9-3-2010 by SeraphSirius]

reply to post by IsaacKoi


I must point out that while I cannot possibly comment on the OPs impressive body of research into this matter, Erich Von Daniken has been a laughing stock in serious circles for sometime.

Originally posted by TrueBrit
Erich Von Daniken has been a laughing stock in serious circles for sometime.

Agreed - but Von Daniken had little to do with the development of the Dogon "mystery" (unlike various other aspects of the "ancient astronaut" lore for which Von Daniken holds a considerable proportion of the credit/blame).

It was a book by another author (i.e. Robert Temple's "The Sirius Mystery" published in 1976) that launched this "mystery" into the public awareness.

Von Daniken subsequently referred to the myth in a couple of his books (see references below), but those discussions had relatively little impact compared to Robert Temple's book.


REFERENCES

Von Daniken, Erich in his “According to the evidence” (1977) (available on Amazon USA and on Amazon UK) at pages 81-92 (in Chapter 3) of the Souvenir Press hardback edition.

Von Daniken, Erich in his “Signs of the Gods” (1979) at pages 205-207 (in Chapter 5) of the Berkley paperback edition.

reply to post by IsaacKoi


I only wished to point out that pretty much anything that the man has said in his books, can be considered eyewash unless its verified by independant, reputable sources.

I was watching the Ancient Aliens series and the Dogon Mystery was raised in the course of "The Visitors" episode ... I searched ATS for information and ran into this extraordinary thread.

It has absorbed me for the last day or so and I thought it was highly worthy of an overdue bump.

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
I was watching the Ancient Aliens series and the Dogon Mystery was raised in the course of "The Visitors" episode ... I searched ATS for information and ran into this extraordinary thread.

It has absorbed me for the last day or so and I thought it was highly worthy of an overdue bump.

Being TV series, Ancient Astronauts should have some sort of research staff and yet a single post on the internet, written by one guy, was more informing and factual than their TV show. The information was as readily available to them as to IssacKoi, yet they chose not to make the viewer aware of it. Someone is lying to their viewers.

Originally posted by jclmavg
Regardless, the other critique referenced - with the Dogon picking up the astronomical knowledge from Western visitors - is hardly convincing. Such an explanation is more guesswork than anything else.

Not entirely guesswork.

Consider:

Circa 1900, humans knew of rings around Saturn, but NOT around Jupiter, Uranus, and Neptune -- these were in the ecliptic plane (unlike Saturn's) and a bit thinner, so were invisible to Earth-based telescopes.

Circa 1900 or anytime, ET visitors to the solar system would immediately notice ALL outer planetary rings.

1914-1918: Hundreds of young Dogon men serve in French army in WWI, most return home.

1930s?? Dogon elders describe a ring around Saturn. Not a ring around Jupiter. Not any rings around any planets beyond saturn.

Based on the two DIFFERENT types of knowledge that are candidate sources for Dogon stories, WHICH more closely resembles the stories?

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
Being TV series, Ancient Astronauts should have some sort of research staff and yet a single post on the internet, written by one guy, was more informing and factual than their TV show. The information was as readily available to them as to IssacKoi, yet they chose not to make the viewer aware of it. Someone is lying to their viewers.

Excellent observation, and a reasonable supposition.

Here's my explanation:

Commercial sponsors LOVE shows that specifically ATTRACT judgment-impaired viewers who will believe ANYTHING they are told. This means more sales of the sponsoring agencies' goods and services. The more gullible and disbelief-suspended the audience, the higher the profit.

These advertising strategists have concluded that viewers of UFO and ancient astronaut programs are exactly the kinds of marks they are looking for to invest their money in reaching.



[edit on 5-5-2010 by JimOberg]

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
Being TV series, Ancient Astronauts should have some sort of research staff and yet a single post on the internet, written by one guy, was more informing and factual than their TV show. The information was as readily available to them as to IssacKoi, yet they chose not to make the viewer aware of it. Someone is lying to their viewers.

Excellent observation, and a reasonable supposition.

Here's my explanation:

Commercial sponsors LOVE shows that specifically ATTRACT judgment-impaired viewers who will believe ANYTHING they are told. This means more sales of the sponsoring agencies' goods and services. The more gullible and disbelief-suspended the audience, the higher the profit.

These advertising strategists have concluded that viewers of UFO and ancient astronaut programs are exactly the kinds of marks they are looking for to invest their money in reaching.

Jim,

Thank you so much for saying that.

I've been saying the same thing for years around here (and elsewhere.)

Usually falls on deaf ears though.

Too many folks here want so desperately to believe these misrepresentationsit that they will, as the advertisers concluded, buy a pig in a poke.

Harte

Originally posted by JimOberg
Excellent observation, and a reasonable supposition.

Here's my explanation:

Commercial sponsors LOVE shows that specifically ATTRACT judgment-impaired viewers who will believe ANYTHING they are told...

You're right, everything on TV is designed to sell us something. I came across as naive, after all this point of this show is not an objective examination of the facts but confirmation of the viewers beliefs. Casting it black-and-white terms, truth versus lies was purposeful. That message may be better fed to those who believe the show rather than a cynical, albeit accurate, comment on the television industry.

Originally posted by NGC2736


As you read these links and statements from different people, bear in mind that nowhere is there anything more than circumstantial evidence to support the OPs claims that the mystery is "solved". My dear old Pappy had a saying which comes to mind about now. "If you can't blind 'em with brilliance, then baffle 'em with bull*^@t." I have a feeling this rebuttal is getting deep.

yeah, I don't get skeptics why they always have to debunk something. It is as if they want that feeling of accomplishment in their lives. I thought the Dogon tribe was quite good evidence since they aren't after money and fame like the so called "civilized" people do. I now wonder why Aliens don't visit "civilized" man. I believe because we are too ignorant and Naive to say we are better than them.


I believe now I know why it wasn't accepted as premium news.

[edit on 7-5-2010 by dragnet53]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Thanks for mentioning OTHER african tribes who hold beliefs about ancestors from the stars and visitors from the stars.

The theory of Europeans having brought the knowledge to Africans is not only inaccurate (as african mythology was already in place before missionaries attempted to destroy it) but also has a slight subtone of racism

DOn't forget the Native American's as well and their tales of visitors and such. Oh I guess the aliens were caucasian males pretending to be aliens just to make fools of them? But the Native's currently don't trust the white man.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by JimOberg
Excellent observation, and a reasonable supposition.

Here's my explanation:

Commercial sponsors LOVE shows that specifically ATTRACT judgment-impaired viewers who will believe ANYTHING they are told...

You're right, everything on TV is designed to sell us something. I came across as naive, after all this point of this show is not an objective examination of the facts but confirmation of the viewers beliefs. Casting it black-and-white terms, truth versus lies was purposeful. That message may be better fed to those who believe the show rather than a cynical, albeit accurate, comment on the television industry.

So do you say the same thing about skeptic shows like the show BS?

Originally posted by dragnet53
So do you say the same thing about skeptic shows like the show BS?

Sorry, I can't respond because I can't figure out what you're trying to say.

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by dragnet53
So do you say the same thing about skeptic shows like the show BS?

Sorry, I can't respond because I can't figure out what you're trying to say.

I can't say the name of the show because it is a censored word on here. It is a show on HBO and has Penn & Teller as the hosts.

They are skeptics and big ones at that. Doomsdayrex was replying about this

That message may be better fed to those who believe the show rather than a cynical, albeit accurate, comment on the television industry.

Yet the show BS generally has some facts, but most of it is based upon opinions. Most skeptics considered it as fact what that show brings forth. I loved only two episodes which are the one on PETA and cuss words.

Originally posted by dragnet53
yeah, I don't get skeptics why they always have to debunk something. It is as if they want that feeling of accomplishment in their lives.

Appeal to Ridicule.

Originally posted by dragnet53
I thought the Dogon tribe was quite good evidence since they aren't after money and fame like the so called "civilized" people do.

Appeal to poverty.