Are ETs that stupid?

Originally posted by deezee

Originally posted by Incarnated
They are far more inteligent then mankind.

And you know that because?

I will accept they must know more than us, if they really have the technology to come here.

But not because the Urantia book says so.

what ever way you want to cut it up, it is true.

Mankind = Monkey = Stupid

"Aliens" = Ancient Beings = Lots Smarter then YOU.

Now, to be fair. I would hope you'd not mistrust the urantia book.

Though to each their own. I don't accept the urantia book as truth blindly. I studied for several years before finding the urantia book. That's the only way I'd be willing to accept it.

Originally posted by tayga
My own opinion is that any advanced civilisation would be able to do this and I’m inclined to wonder why such a culture would allow its craft to be seen by us. Furthermore, if the intent were for us to see them, why are their appearances so vague and poorly-recorded?

Don't know. You'd have to ask them to find out for sure. But maybe they only want to be seen very a certain amount. Just enough to let us know they're there, but not enough to give us the whole story. Why?

Jacques Vallee suggested that UFOs might somehow be in the process of slowly leading us forward in our technology for some unknown reason. Or that we (people as a group) are generating them as thought-forms or tulpas, and they represent what could be thought of as our collective imagination, which is always going to be just a few years ahead of where we are.

The curious property of UFOs to only really be a few decades in advance of our own technology (and sometimes even lagging behind us) is certainly a puzzle. And it's one aspect of the phenomenon that tends to suggest there's a lot more going on here than just some bug-eyed critters from Mars paying us a visit.

I always questioned the intelligence of ETs when they always seem to land in trailer parks with hillbillies.

Originally posted by jerico65
I always questioned the intelligence of ETs when they always seem to land in trailer parks with hillbillies.

Yeah, I remember stand-up comedy from the 1980s, too. What is the deal with those airplane peanuts?



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[edit on 11-1-2008 by elevatedone]

Originally posted by Incarnated
what ever way you want to cut it up, it is true.

Mankind = Monkey = Stupid

"Aliens" = Ancient Beings = Lots Smarter then YOU.

Again... How do you know any of this - that visiting aliens exist at all and that they are ancient beings?


Smarter than ME or smarter than US?

And if the latter, does this fake humility give you some strange backwards pleasure?

It reminds me of those claims that we only use 10% of our brain as quoted by some random always changing source, while it's not even known where this ridiculous idea came from...


I have a very good reason to claim that most of these theories discussed here are nothing more than speculation based on imagination and wishfull thinking - something we want to believe, cos it's comforting and makes us feel good.


EDIT: Oh, forget it.. I've read your other posts and realized how high above us mere mortals you really are.

Kneel before Zod.

[edit on 10-1-2008 by deezee]

reply to post by deezee


In time I'll be proven right...

It works like this...

Everything there is to know is a piece of the larger puzzle. Though to understand the puzzle and the piece you must understand the perspective the piece is coming from.

Men that fear for their own lives speak in one way. Men that are confused and/or wish to lie speak in another. Things not of men are spoken again in another way.

Piece and Perspective.

The Truth is out there. It just take's one mind within the spiritual/mental state of the realization of truth to put the pieces together.

Originally posted by Incarnated
In time I'll be proven right...

If you only knew how many times i've heard this from oh so "spiritual" people, who use this "spirituality" for nothing more but bloating their egos.

They are always condescending, they always think very highly of themselves (while having a very low self esteem), they always have all the answers to everything and they're always 100% sure what they say is the ultimate truth.

But for some strange reason all this spirituality and enlightenment still isn't enough for them to even lead a normal conversation with their friends and ther family.

The best one so far was my girlfriends mother, who KNEW she was the mother of all children and even the mother of god, not to mention the messiah. She also believed my girlfriend would turn into a dishwasher and a radiator.

And she is 15% more spiritual than you, if you ask her.

Strangly enough, my girlfriend still can not wash dishes in herself and is incapable of heating an entire room. Oh, and Disney still hasn't given her the money she deserves.

But maybe that's because all the antypsychotics the mother of god has to take now, in order to lead a semi normal life, somehow obstruct her divine abilities. [SNIP]

Oh well.


Mod Edit - removed drug reference.
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[edit on 11-1-2008 by elevatedone]

reply to post by deezee



You are judging me from the majority.

No, even my friends and family know I'm weird.

Originally posted by Incarnated
You are judging me from the majority.

No, even my friends and family know I'm weird.

I'm just noticing the common traits. And your last sentence shows i guessed one of them correctly.

But no, i don't think you're delusional. You don't have all of those traits. Just the standard new age ones.

But i'm not judging you. I actually understand you. Been there myself. But i do believe it would do you good to be at least a little more humble and less condescending. It would make conversations much more pleasant and constructive.

If only you could step off your pedestal, i would love to discuss these things with you. But untill your claims look like "I know something you dont!" and "I know everything and you are ignorant because you don't agree with me!", i don't see the point.

As i mentioned before, only delusional people "know" everything. And new agers like to believe they do. And this prevents any real productive discussions.

Originally posted by Nohup

The curious property of UFOs to only really be a few decades in advance of our own technology (and sometimes even lagging behind us) is certainly a puzzle. And it's one aspect of the phenomenon that tends to suggest there's a lot more going on here than just some bug-eyed critters from Mars paying us a visit.

It's an interesting comparison I haven't seen made before in a succinct way. Where does it come from?

That few decades ahead would fit well with the rate of advancement I'd expect from the black ops community which is probably better funded than all the overt science and technology we have. Mind you, lagging behind wouldn't!

My own opinion is that any advanced civilisation would be able to do this and I’m inclined to wonder why such a culture would allow its craft to be seen by us.

Yeah, i guess any 'ufo's people see are just black projects and such....makes sense....but what about the tether thing they probebly arn't human made....to 'out of this world' looking if you know what i mean, and all we did was use some normal nasa tech to detect them and see them....

Originally posted by tayga
However, given that RADAR and visible light reflection/detection are based on the same physical principles, is it very far-fetched to think that military science is not already close to visible Stealth? If we concede that, then how likely is it that an advanced alien civilisation does not have the technology to render its spacecraft invisible?

...I’m inclined to wonder why such a culture would allow its craft to be seen by us. Furthermore, if the intent were for us to see them, why are their appearances so vague and poorly-recorded?

They don't strive to have their craft seen by us and they would rather have any appearances that they do not purposely intend to be visible, to be poorly recorded or not at all.

Stealth technology and optical invisibility are only recent technological innovations - on our end.

In fact, there is evidence that infrared night vision technology - which can see through cloaked spacecraft - was actually borrowed or at least inspired by the government's involvement with acquired Zetan ships. Do a search on US Army Colonel Philip J. Corso.

So the Reticulans generally have no desire of letting us see them, their probes, or their manned ships. They simply have no choice but to be seen when we use infrared night vision equipment to view our skies and their cloaked spacecraft happens to be in the vicinity.

In the documentary, UFO: The Greatest Story Ever Denied, they clearly film alien spacecraft that is optically invisible to the naked eye but clearly visible through infrared night vision technology.

You can percieve crafts by seeing through the material veil of life. What's behind that curtain is something else. Clairavoyance or your third eye.

Don't forget your aboard a STARSHIP/Mothership, Earth. And we may look human but we are not, what's underneath that sheet of skin is something the Universe at large is made out of Pure energy.

We are 'liquid Light' beings.

It just so happens this density sometimes keeps us down, or grounded should I say.

Our Gravitation field of density composed of light in a singular gravitation force=The timespace we are in.

Originally posted by tayga
It's an interesting comparison I haven't seen made before in a succinct way. Where does it come from?

I think probably folks like Jacques Vallee noted it first. It's odd that given the size and age of the galaxy/universe, UFO technology could be thousands or millions of years ahead of us, yet it generally only seems to be a few decades. Some of that could be explained by people mistaking secret advanced aircraft for alien UFOs, but not all of it.

The level of technology always seems to be even just a little bit ahead of the black ops stuff. Like with invisibility, for instance. We've gotten pretty good at stealth technology, but UFOs often have the ability to just "vanish" into thin air. We still can't do that. And they're still much better at traveling at very high speeds in our atmosphere without creating a sonic boom. We're just now starting to get a handle on that. And we're still only experimenting with efficient and effective trans-atmospheric craft, as well as craft that can make sharp angled turns at 90 degrees or less.

That few decades ahead would fit well with the rate of advancement I'd expect from the black ops community which is probably better funded than all the overt science and technology we have. Mind you, lagging behind wouldn't!

The example most often sited of this lagging behind problem is the "fertility" experiments conducted on people, abductees, like Betty Hill. According to her description, it involved jabbing a huge needle into her abdomen. Even at the time, we Earthlings had such things are simple pregnancy tests and other much less intrusive ways of accomplishing the same thing. Abductees are also often noted to have gouges where supposed "samples" were taken. We can get perfectly good samples by simply swabbing the insides of our mouths with cotton, and our scanning technologies are getting incredibly sophisticated with MRIs and CAT scans, etc. Why are the aliens so backward at doing simple things like scanning and testing?

It's a puzzler.

[edit on 11-1-2008 by Nohup]

A note on technology and intelligence

We hear this often, that we should grant, theoretically, the UFO-critters with vast, superior intelligence. This because of their capability to (seemingly) travel between the stars.

Now the star traversing bit MAY be true, although we cannot KNOW that. The intelligence part though, is a complete unknown.

First of all, we can not be sure that all UFO:s consist of technology as such, they may be energetic, spiritual or whatever.

Secondly; if you give a five year-old a cellphone and a moped, will he be more "intelligent" than Plato with a stylus and a donkey?

I mean, it is quite obvious that technology is no proof of intelligence. It is, perhaps, an indication. But to clothe it with another example; we have, still, "primitive" tribes on earth. Htese peoples have almost no discernable technology as we percieve the term in the developed west today. Still they are as human and "intelligent" as we are.

Just thought i'd slide that thought in there

Originally posted by Nohup

The level of technology always seems to be even just a little bit ahead of the black ops stuff.

But wouldn't it be reasonable to expect that the sharpest of sharp end black ops technology might not be known outside the community itself? There's a very compelling argument for releasing limited details of advanced technology for military strategic reasons (e.g. to strike fear into your enemies) but if you were 40 years ahead wouldn't it be better to just appear 10 or 20 years ahead whilst holding back your best secrets?

The example most often sited of this lagging behind problem is the "fertility" experiments conducted on people, abductees, like Betty Hill. According to her description, it involved jabbing a huge needle into her abdomen. Even at the time, we Earthlings had such things are simple pregnancy tests and other much less intrusive ways of accomplishing the same thing. Abductees are also often noted to have gouges where supposed "samples" were taken. We can get perfectly good samples by simply swabbing the insides of our mouths with cotton, and our scanning technologies are getting incredibly sophisticated with MRIs and CAT scans, etc. Why are the aliens so backward at doing simple things like scanning and testing?

I'll confess that I haven't yet had the opportunity to read all the accounts of these encounters. However, there is a problem with personal experiences as objective evidence which is that while they may be true, they don't furnish the degree of certainty to third parties that they seem to inspire in the witnesses. In other words, you can describe experience but you can't share it. Compare this to material evidence which can be independently examined by all parties. I'd liken these two classes of evidence to profound religious experience on the one hand (which can not be supported or refuted) and, say, forensic evidence.

Originally posted by EarthDweller
A note on technology and intelligence
...

First of all, we can not be sure that all UFO:s consist of technology as such, they may be energetic, spiritual or whatever.

OK, fair comment. You're saying that a culture may well have greater or different innate abilities compared to ours without necessarily being more advanced in technological terms. That's certainly something that should be considered when we look at the data we have and we may have to wait until we can reliably do so.

Secondly; if you give a five year-old a cellphone and a moped, will he be more "intelligent" than Plato with a stylus and a donkey?

I mean, it is quite obvious that technology is no proof of intelligence. It is, perhaps, an indication. But to clothe it with another example; we have, still, "primitive" tribes on earth. Htese peoples have almost no discernable technology as we percieve the term in the developed west today. Still they are as human and "intelligent" as we are.

OK, but you wouldn't cite the bushmen of the Kalahari as an illustration of the intelligence of the human race, would you? Although there are undoubtedly intelligent bushmen, their circumstances have not necessitated the adoption or development of technology beyond hunting and gathering. The intelligence of the human race, as a whole, is better exemplified by, for example, electronics, military technology and the number of conflicts we have. In other words, physically advanced and socially retarded.

On balance, I'd have to concede that you're right, ability doesn't necessarily rely on technology. Technology does require intelligence, though, so when we look at evidence it's important to try to discriminate between ability conferred by technology, and innate ability.

Originally posted by tayga

Originally posted by EarthDweller
A note on technology and intelligence
...

OK, but you wouldn't cite the bushmen of the Kalahari as an illustration of the intelligence of the human race, would you?

Well actually, no i would not. But that is to my and your reasoning and not by infallable logic. I'd say that technological progress is a mode of society. But it is a cultural aspect and not, foremost, some genetic trait, right? Were the bushmen absorbed by western culture (the good aspects of it), they'd be expressing those same creative qualities and those technologies you mention. I believe however, that some ancient (human) cultures were stunningly bright and insightful. But that they never in such an intrisical, manic way as todays western culture strived toward renewing of technology. I think that they were more obsessed with finding sublime ways of applying what technology they had. The pyramids and other megalithic structures come to mind

We humans of today PRODUCE like mad-men. We do not necessarily INNOVATE that much! If we were to compare our shere mass of technological produce with some relevant alien culture i'd say we'd come out way ahead in quantities! Just think of the millions of varieties of home electronics and consumer goods technology that we have produced just for the love of material things! We do not strive, always, to produce something better than someone else, more we try to produce something more "cool" or "trendy" than the other company or season. I would be surprised (and disappointed) if this was a universal trait of beeings! I'd be surprised if E.T had the same massive range of transports, digicams, clothes, foodstuffs and the like to choose from as we do

What i'm getting at, i guess, is that we may have different approaches towards technological progress, as dictated by our different modes of society. Of course, the "minimalistic" appearance of alien culures in old sci-fi might have helped fostering that view of mine, but still...

On a side note; If they (E.T) can't top Beethoven and Bach or Leonardo in creative qualities in emotional, spiritual context - i'm not that impressed anyhows.

Originally posted by EarthDweller

I think that [ancient (human) cultures] were more obsessed with finding sublime ways of applying what technology they had. The pyramids and other megalithic structures come to mind

Sure, the only ways they could build high involved making an exquisite pile of stones or just very big stones. As you say, many of the ancient examples are sublime.

On a side note; If they (E.T) can't top Beethoven and Bach or Leonardo in creative qualities in emotional, spiritual context - i'm not that impressed anyhows.

Now if we ever made contact it would be fascinating to see whether, in artistic terms, we are, as a culture, exquisitely talented, very retarded or just average compared to whoever

Still, we're getting way from the point but you have widened my scope of possible explanations for UFOs. If I manage to find compelling enough evidence.

reply to post by tayga


Actually Tayga, I think you've made a staggeringly great point that I had never considered before. Nearly all UFOs which are reported as craft are exactly that, recognisable as nut's and bolts spaceships. You would imagine that any ET craft would be as alien as their biology and philosophy. Interesting. I guess it's equivalent to growing up on a desert island alone. One day a message in a bottle arrives on the beach. Would you recognise it as a message?