The Case For Clifford Stone.

Originally posted by Riposte

What is that supposed to mean? No offense Mr. Lear, but is there anything that you don't believe?

Yes. I don't believe any airplane crashed on 911.

Thanks for the post.

Originally posted by Smugallo
i just don't buy into a lot of the stories out there thats all, as sincere and as truthful as they may appear to be, i just don't believe it.

Well, there is nothing wrong with that.
But share your view on a story as in this case the one of Clifford Stone, without referring to the 'BS Meter', saying that it went off the scale,
Or as you say it here,
This is begging the question, if you think his story is 150.0000 of the BS scale then how legit are his documents?

reply to post by spacevisitor


I apologise for that, perhaps that was a little too much .

His documents in the archive i have viewed are excellent (a little hard to read in some places sometimes) and they should keep me occupied for some time to come!

If i struck a nerve with you because of your belief in these claims then i apologize also, but it's human nature to have your own point of view, your own level of tolerance, and i simply do not trust the information given in interviews by a lot of these guys! It seems to me like they are acting, sometimes overacting and bluffing the camera's.

The only conspiracy here is these guys getting together and trying to take the UFO community as gullible, I suppose that statement is unfounded like most of the theories on this site. but again, it's only an opinion! I do believe some of what they say just not the whole thing.

reply to post by Smugallo



Like I said in the interview and on the "TEAM ATS in Roswell" thread...

I have no interest in Clifford's story at all. Matter of fact we spent several hours together at the airport, just the two of us, since my flight was delayed and we discussed the documents not his "story". He never tried to tell me his "story" either.

I assure you the documents are genuine, right down to the original envelope with the DC postmark and original cover letters on agency stationery and the letters from two U.S. Senators who helped Clifford get the documents.

I don't care about stories, I don't mean to sound rude, but stories aren't evidence, documents are evidence. Documents are DATA, if you look over my personal writing about ufology you'll see I am always seeking the DATA, the stories can be true or false or a combination of both for all I know but DATA is fact.

All that being said, Clifford struck my skeptical partner (Crakeur) and I as a very sincere man, a very honest man and a very genuine man but that doesn't mean much WRT to getting at the truth of this phenomena does it?

Nobody cares whether I believe or disbelieve Clifford Stone or anyone else, it doesn't prove a thing. DATA and evidence are what changes people's minds and opens eyes not anecdotal stories, be they true or not.

Believe Clifford or don't, it matters not, he's got the DATA and that's the extent of my interest.

Springer...

reply to post by Springer


There is no doubt in my mind that the documents are genuine, and fascinating! But if you don't mind me asking, what document (or documents) was it that changed your skeptical friend?

reply to post by Smugallo



We aren't disclosing those documents until we have shown them to the number one, legitimate, serious news program on TV (we are making them sign a Non Disclosure Agreement though). If we release them anywhere before they see them they will not do the segment on their show.

The "big boys" have that kind of power because they can get these documents into 38,000,000 households all at once. There is no other way to get that kind of exposure for this so it's how we are going to handle it.

Springer...

reply to post by Springer


Great stuff! I'm looking forward to this, by the sounds of it the documents seem to be solid 100% evidence!

When are we likely to hear about updates on this matter, living in a wee town in Scotland, I may not get the same programming on my cable box that you guys do, so updates would be nice somewhere.

Originally posted by Springer
reply to post by Smugallo

 

We aren't disclosing those documents until we have shown them to the number one, legitimate, serious news program on TV (we are making them sign a Non Disclosure Agreement though). If we release them anywhere before they see them they will not do the segment on their show.

Nice to know. Is there any time frame for that? Regardless, as Smugallo said, don't forget to let us non-Americans know about it.

About the interview, I'm skeptical as well. The event when he let a alien escape with no serious consequences also sounded odd to me. It seemed like: "Oh, sorry, I let a alien escape. No big deal, huh?"

Additionally, another thing I find odd about these kind of stories is the following: if the aliens are so advanced and supposedly have technologies like paralyzing beans, deactivators of electricity and so on, what's keeping them from rescuing their friends locked by the government? Even if they are 100% pacifist, I'm sure they could do that without killing a single human just by using their advanced technology.

Originally posted by Smugallo
reply to post by spacevisitor

 

I apologise for that, perhaps that was a little too much

.

Well Smugallo, accepted , and know, that I have no hard feelings whatsoever, I hope that you or someone else will tick me on my fingers to when I step off the line.

I'll try, but i would have to catch you first!

I would just like to say in response to OP. I can understand how your BS meter may be activated. Clifford's dialogue seemed off point and random at times and his claims ......hey a bit out there for those of us who have not been there.

HOWEVER...
That interview also was familiar. Reminded me of conversations I've had with Vietnam Vets in my life. One Vet which was very important to me.
He tried to tell me on occasion about his experiences, apart and beyond battle.

It was weird and difficult for him. I'm not implying he had anything to with UFO's but it was obvious whatever it was, he was not to speak of it.
These men were trained to keep secrets. So when they try to tell them, they don't come out right.

They talk in riddles, hoping that you get it so they don't have to say it.
And at the same time hoping that you don't get. All the while, the emotions are high.

Some of the most destructive battles on earth take place in a mans mind.

So, I guess I'm saying that I buy Clifford's story for now.

And for you DCOSr...miss you, Love you........R.I.P.


members, please forgive my regression

This guy in the video is a complete narcissist. Here is a quote of his...

"There are people out there, and I'm one of them..."

It's interesting how all of his stories display him as the important aspect.

"Ya know what? I don't have to read everypage.. but I can skim everypage."

"And if you know anything about mathematical formulas..."

"You know why? They really were told to call them helicopters"

Man, this guy can't carry on a coherent conversation...

Clifford Stone has always struck me as an honest and down-to-earth (maybe not literally...) kind of guy. He doesn't seem to have any reason to lie or any agenda behind him.

Either he's doing this for fun and kicks, he's being fully honest, or he's somewhere in the middle. It's hard to ignore his testimony though, especially compared to other Camelot/Disclosure witnesses.

whether you believe Mr. Stone's story or not really doesn't matter. What does matter is the mountains of documents he has gathered from the very government trying to hide this stuff from us. which we'll get to read very soon i hope i know there is already a bunch in the archive here.

My personal take on the interview was he knows all this but alot of people aren't ready to know everything, they might think they are ready but they really aren't. So what can the guy do? All he really can do is show us the door, we each have to choose to open it and walk through the door when "we" are ready.

As for him helping an "entity" escape, do you really think the army would have court marshaled him? If they did he could open a whole can of worms in his defense that the powers at be wouldn't want opened. So a slap on the wrist is much quieter and they could keep there secret safe. If they really wanted to keep him quiet they would have just disappeared him .

Yes the EBE's have more advanced tech than us, But they know if they "rescued" one of there own and any humans got killed we'd retaliate and then we'd have an interstellar war and since they are looking out for us that's something they don't want.

I have a feeling the coming years will be very interesting. The first official contact is coming hopefully I'll still be alive when it happens

reply to post by Springer


Hi Springer

Well done in securing the Clifford Stone documents, can't wait to see them

Can I just ask:

Why did he choose ATS to be the release point?

How much did ATS pay for them, if indeed you did pay for them?

Are the documents the result of FOIA requests?

[edit on 6/1/2008 by skibtz]

Just watching Clifford Stone talking in those interviews that are on You Tube, he comes across as having an immense amount of personal charisma. Either he's a damn good actor or he's the authentic item but whatever he is, he's obviously not nuts.

Originally posted by Mercenary2007
My personal take on the interview was he knows all this but alot of people aren't ready to know everything, they might think they are ready but they really aren't. So what can the guy do? All he really can do is show us the door, we each have to choose to open it and walk through the door when "we" are ready.

Sorry, I don't agree with this. Facts can be either true or not, regardless if the listeners are ready or not to listen to them. Unless you're talking about a more esoteric view of ufology (like "you're not ready, you have to be at a higher frequency to understand the truth"), I don't think there's any need to keep the facts behind doors.

As for him helping an "entity" escape, do you really think the army would have court marshaled him? If they did he could open a whole can of worms in his defense that the powers at be wouldn't want opened. So a slap on the wrist is much quieter and they could keep there secret safe. If they really wanted to keep him quiet they would have just disappeared him .

Yeah, I don't think a court marshal would do any good. But if a subordinate of mine let an alien escape, there certainly would be serious consequences… like keeping him away from further missions (at least for some time), increasing security, interrogations and so on. Instead, all his superior said was: "don't let this happen again." Perhaps Mr. Stone was so important to the program that he was granted special treatment in this case, but still seemed odd to me.

Yes the EBE's have more advanced tech than us, But they know if they "rescued" one of there own and any humans got killed we'd retaliate and then we'd have an interstellar war and since they are looking out for us that's something they don't want.

Hmm, I see. I'm not sure if and how we would retaliate, but what you wrote makes sense, in the context that those specific aliens are very pacifist.

Hi Palasheea.

No he never comes across as 'nuts', Most of the talkers i have seen in the Project Camelot interviews are good speakers and communicators, And if they are lying then they need the ability to improvise.

Dan Burisch uses the old 'Let me just take a moment to think about if i can say this to you or not' a couple of times to my recollection, and he seems to have an answer for almost every question put to him!

[edit on 6-1-2008 by Smugallo]

In any case, I don't think anyone here is calling him a liar. I think the general consensus is that he's telling the truth as he knows it.

There's a lot of information that can be gleaned by actually interviewing the witness and recording it with a videocam while doing that to be able to observe that person's personality, manner's of speech, body language and so on to be able to make some kind of tentative determination if that person is telling the truth or not.

What I'm seeing in those video interviews of Clifford Stone is a man who's telling the truth as he knows it. People can usually sense when others are lying and the fact that Stone is considered a well-respected and credible witness in the UFO community speaks for itself.

[edit on 6-1-2008 by Palasheea]

Originally posted by Smugallo
reply to post by senshido

 

Hi senshido! Thanks for the link, i forgot to search ATS for the asteroid/probe info. Although the astronomical 'data' means little to me in this thread, i do find the comments from the astronomer quite interesting. Seems to think that it could be a returning spacecraft stage or something.

On another note, i had a little look over the Clifford Stone Archive's, some great stuff in there indeed, and i give him merit for his research work over the years, his story on the Project Camelot interview and his archive work are obviously differential, He has provided us all with a great resource through the archives. This still doesn't mean we should believe his story though, and i guess it's up to each an every one of us to make our own minds up about the matter. The simple fact is if you want to take it as the truth, or to dismiss it as fanciful storytelling, then evidence is needed.

It a bitch that evidence is hard to come by..

That's why the VG1991 reference by Clifford Stone is interesting to me.
If you use the JPL website to track the object, you'll see it is currently in an orbit similar to that of the earth's, but furthest from the earth right now.

You can use the app (or any other software) to track it in the future, since the earth's orbit is slightly quicker around the sun that the VG1991 'object', at some point we wil catch up, and be on a parallel orbit for all of us to see!

It's at that point we can fairly easily determine what the heck it is, and prove C Stone as a liar (if need be).

The year by the way is 2017. The last we orbited so close was in 1992.

It is noteworthy to mention that in Clifford's statements in the disclosure project, eight years ago, he did mention that he "worked with alot of them" refering to members of congress. (See page 327 of the disclosure book).

Seems the ATS team secured documents from Mr Stone which he obtained from US politicians, so his story has been consistent at least.