ATS is dead!

Originally posted by newday
By focusing on my use of the word rules and purposefully mis-characterizing its contextual meaning by adding the term basic and putting rules in "quotation marks' you show a very clear, though slight, degree of the reduced spirit of honesty which I was discussing, this you have done for all to witness.

Imagine me right now... slack-jawed... eyes blinking... confused... muttering a half-finished "what the h..."

No really... I have no idea where that's coming from nor what you mean by it.

through the implementing of ever increasing rules and regulations by the worshipers of the ethos of the ether, the keepers of the golden calf.

The "rules" you keep referring to are nothing more than real-world social graces and civility... extended into the "cyber world" where such manners seem to be often eschewed. When you condense our terms & conditions down to their essence, it's nothing more than high standards. If you perceive these as a means for control, I'm not sure I can say anything to persuade otherwise.

The diminishing spirit of openness and honesty and the rising sense of accusation and fear of consequence latent to legalisms which one must confront, compelling them to hide or withhold the fullness of their true feelings and thoughts on an ever increasing number of topics, appears to be systemic and irreversible.

Openness, honesty, and transparency have been significant hallmarks of our operation for some time. Combined with our rules of decorum that ensure anyone can share anything... your statement would seem to have no basis in reality.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


You are fun to speak with of course I don't expect you to see what I am saying or agree with it how can you, and why should you?

Do you think the Pope would see and understand if God had nothing to do with his religion?

If the almighty God asked you to go to the Vatican to have a conversation with the pope because God knows the Pope and wants your help to try and persuade the Pope to make right what is left of his life by giving up his religion and speaking out against it what would you say to God?

Originally posted by newday
would you say to God?

Sorry old man, I'm an atheist, you're better off with someone else.

So... then... metaphors are wonderful, but... how does that apply?

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Sorry old man, I'm an atheist, you're better off with someone else.

Don't worry SO, I'm a Christian...I'll field this one:

So then... metaphors are wonderful, but how does that apply?

First may I thank everyone for contributing to this thread. I have being visiting Ats for many years (unregistered) and consider the site part of my education regarding world events and the truth behind what the media present to the masses on a daily basis.
We are fighting an info war and I consider many on here to be fellow info-soldiers and I will stand with them when the time for real change comes. However, dis-info agents are also fighting hard and in many ways starting to win the battle for ATS. We cannot let this happen and so here we are fighting for one of the most important communities in the world today.

Derailing threads is one of the most laughable issues here on ATS. I know people who play the derailing game and hate every minute of it. In case you are wondering what this game is well, here's how you play it. You follow a new (credible) thread and count the amount of posts it takes until the thread in hijacked by some dweeb and derailed into petty banter. Great game...not!

Group dominance is another weak part of this site now. A awesome example of this is the Secret Societies forum, you only have to disagree with any Freemason and you get jumped on and run off the forum.

Moderation. well for a start as far as I'm aware ATS only have one UK Mod? If this is true it's a real sorry state of affairs isn't it. A good example of the mod's here on ATS (and this does not mean all of them all of the time..OK?).
You might get a well presented thread but as usual someone posts up some garbage to derail. The first time someone stands up and comments about this garbage post, the Mod will step in and give them a good telling off for being offensive! I believe the Mod should be cutting this crap out in the first place and having a u2u with who ever posted the garbage.
Just a thought?

Derailment of threads, Group dominance (YES, the Freemasons! I dare say it!), poor moderation (not all the time)

Need I say more?

No cain I think you'll find theres at least four mods from the UK are you asking for proportional representation by country for the mods.

It's quite easy for us to criticise but I think they show alot of patience with ATS members when they have baseless complaints. If I was a owner I wouldn't even bother replying to some complaints and they do and there addressing our issues even more just recently.

Well if the mods are to do as you suggest, they wouldn't have the time for anything else in their lives and it would look like censure, it's better to let people get on with it even if some posts are derailment/dis-info, have you ever looked at the 9/11 forum cain it's damn ugly.

My only issue is the PC clique, sometimes you want to explore contentious issues and if you do, you become a victim of a ATS popularity contest as your quietly labelled anti-religous or anti-american or homophobic or an anti-freemason. And I suppose thats just the way things are.



[edit on 15-1-2008 by carslake]

I think it's fair to say that unless some of the BS is cut then all ATS will be left with is a bunch of teen lambs!
People who take a real interest in world issues have better things to do than plough through a load of tosh.

I agree with SkepticOverlord and his comments regarding the rules being no more than "real-world social graces and civility... extended into the cyber world" but as far as moderation goes I completely disagreed with you carslake.

they wouldn't have the time for anything else in their lives and it would look like censure, it's better to let people get on with it

If they cut the BS comments that are obviously posted to destroy other peoples threads then eventually the number of BS posts will be reduced.

Are you seriously saying that they should just put up with it and let the site die a slow death?

It won't die cain it will just become something else, more mainstream, do you forget that ATS is becoming commercialised and to do this it has to take the centre ground it can't afford to be marginalised as a leftfield wack job site you know what I mean cut out the swearing and then the kids can join in, you reach more people means more money, means bigger projects for ATS etc.......

You can't censure posters like that, it's about freedom of speech and evrything that goes with it including the deflection/dis-info crap, the site has to be open with transparency as the man pointed out. Because without it ATS would be slammed for being partisan.

People say it's a sell out but thats popularity/commercialism for ya.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by newday
would you say to God?

Sorry old man, I'm an atheist, you're better off with someone else.

So... then... metaphors are wonderful, but... how does that apply?

Typical, claim ignorance to avoid giving an answer.

The question was not really meant to be answered although that would have been interesting to discuss.

You don't have to believe in the existence of God to answer a question premised on the existence of God.

The question has everything to do with my point that people hide their true thoughts because of fears they may have which the rules and regulations exploit the fear based personality to achieve there aim of control.

The internet will continue to decline in its usefulness to people seeking open honest conversation as long as new rules and regulations are advanced by those seeking to exploit it in their efforts to achive mor and more profit and influence from and over others.

reply to post by carslake

ATS would be slammed for being partisan

So what!
Is it better to be slammed for that and stick by the people who throughout the years have contributed to making this community stand out from the usual tosh and make ATS special or forget that and just sell out and lose the community altogether?

Q: Will you be sticking around?
Q: Have you seen anything that takes your fancy in the ATS Store?

No what I mean

So what!
Is it better to be slammed for that and stick by the people who throughout the years have contributed to making this community stand out from the usual tosh and make ATS special or forget that and just sell out and lose the community altogether?

The easiest way for me explain this in my honest opinion is that ATS is a two tier system - the mods, owners and conspiracy masters do most of their work in the staff forum. We the members bring important info, experiences, ideas, evidence, knowledge..... to their attention, they pick it over and put themselves to work on it and other external sources. So in some way they're pre-occupied with that, ATS is a microcosm of the whole conspiracy theorists world, ATS is a resource you can skim and graft subject matter from and so why should it change - it works for them and they own, run this site.

If they didn't use the site like that then they are passing up an opportunity, remember they are conspiracy theorists too.

Q: Will you be sticking around?
Q: Have you seen anything that takes your fancy in the ATS Store?

No what I mean

Yeah why not and no I won't be buying anything from the ATS store unless they start selling cheap multi-band microwave scanners lol.

reply to post by carslake


Sorry carslake but you seem to be missing the overall point here.

Unless at least some of the issues that have being discussed within this thread are dealt with(this year) then it is likely that the people who are bringing important info, experiences, ideas, evidence, and knowledge to ATS will stop coming here and find somewhere else with less tosh and more BOSH, if ya know what I mean?

Your theory of the two tier system is certainly valid and I'm sure you have given many people a good insight into the inner working's of ATS but, without the crusial ingredient of quality user's ATS will die.

Sure nothing grabs your attention in the store? Really!....come on.:



[edit on 16-1-2008 by cain-diedhi]

Originally posted by carslake
The easiest way for me explain this in my honest opinion is that ATS is a two tier system - the mods, owners and conspiracy masters do most of their work in the staff forum. We the members bring important info, experiences, ideas, evidence, knowledge..... to their attention, they pick it over and put themselves to work on it and other external sources.

That couldn't be further from the reality.

Members have 100% of the editorial control over what is popular and gets notice on the site home page and forum summary pages. Staff, not even myself, have no ability to effect which content rises to the top. There is only one place where we (owners) have control over the selection of content, and that's with regard to submissions for ATS Premium.

99% of the discussion in the staff-only forum is related to problem members or discussing new ideas for the site. The other 1% is arguing over who's buying the beer this month.

As to the demographics of the site. 55 staff members, 7 Brits, 9 Canucks and various other parts of the world like Scandinavia, the Caribe, Oz, South Africa and New Zealand. Ages from late teen to 60's. A pretty diverse group.

[edit on 16-1-2008 by intrepid]

Originally posted by cain-diedhi
reply to post by carslake

 

Sorry carslake but you seem to be missing the overall point here.

Unless at least some of the issues that have being discussed within this thread are dealt with(this year) then it is likely that the people who are bringing important info, experiences, ideas, evidence, and knowledge to ATS will stop coming here and find somewhere else with less tosh and more BOSH, if ya know what I mean?

No I do get your point and think what your writing is totally valid. However if you are to 'clean' up the forums who is going to decide whats valid and whats not. The con's outweighs the pro's when you moderate heavily IMO. The criticism the site would get would hurt ATS, how can i say it, most of us(i hope) don't like overbearing authority so how are we going to feel about the mods being authoritarian. Did that make sense cain.

Your theory of the two tier system is certainly valid and I'm sure you have given many people a good insight into the inner working's of ATS but, without the crusial ingredient of quality user's ATS will die.

Sure nothing grabs your attention in the store? Really!....come on.

:



[edit on 16-1-2008 by cain-diedhi]

Well as Skeptic points out that opinion is not based in reality and no I don't want any ATS merchandise really thanks saying that now I've got an urge to go visit the store

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

That couldn't be further from the reality.

Members have 100% of the editorial control over what is popular and gets notice on the site home page and forum summary pages. Staff, not even myself, have no ability to effect which content rises to the top. There is only one place where we (owners) have control over the selection of content, and that's with regard to submissions for ATS Premium.

I was working on that assumption with the hope of a correction. It would be good if ATS did work like that. Is it an opportunity lost to ATS, this site has access to experts and researchers I thought it natural that a working group would be created. Some of the content on this site is top quality and it just disappears into the past, an ATS e-magazine would be a great idea or are we just being impatient Skeptic.


Have a look at this if you would. You can understand what Cain's issue is when you view this, I'd appreciate any staff members comment on this. ufovid.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by carslake
Some of the content on this site is top quality and it just disappears into the past, an ATS e-magazine would be a great idea or are we just being impatient Skeptic.

It goes out every three days. We have over 60,000 subscribers. You can subscribe on the home page, or here

Have a look at this:
ufovid.abovetopsecret.com...

It's absolute crap... but I'm not sure what your point is?

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Thanks I've subscribed.

Yeah it is crap just surprised it remains up there and is'nt deleted maybe its just been posted people haven'y got around to it yet.

[edit on 16-1-2008 by carslake]

Originally posted by carslake
Yeah it is crap just surprised it remains up there and is'nt deleted

Those video channels are courtesy of the Google API and are comprised of repackaged YouTube and Google Video content based on the keywords we code into the search. We have no direct control over what appears other than via the keywords.

reply to post by carslake

"However if you are to 'clean' up the forums who is going to decide whats valid and whats not. The con's outweighs the pro's when you moderate heavily IMO. The criticism the site would get would hurt ATS, how can i say it, most of us(i hope) don't like overbearing authority so how are we going to feel about the mods being authoritarian."

Tough for sure.
My thoughts lead me back to one of SkepticOverlord's comments

Members have 100% of the editorial control over what is popular and gets notice

Maybe that's it?
Maybe we shouldn't have that control?

Distinguish between "plausible research" and "immature tosh"?
Maybe make better use of the go-light function in respect for all the talented people who bring good research to the site?.

Comments from all welcome.


[edit on 17-1-2008 by cain-diedhi]

[edit on 17-1-2008 by cain-diedhi]