Explosion heard at Bhutto rally (Bhutto Killed)

Originally posted by grover
Baha'i burial law requires burial in 24 hours as does Islam. Quite a few religions do.

And for very pragmatic reasons. These customs developed long before embalming techniques came along. After 48 hours, the body can become a bit gamey, start to smell, and become host to disease Plus, it attracts insects, pest, and maybe large scavengers/predators.

Originally posted by malcr
Whoa there. The "west" does not have a peaceful past it just so happens that we have grown out being idiotic at least to the extent where we seem to appreciate democracy over the gun. I say seem since the turn out at voting time suggest a lot of people don't give a damn and would presumably prefer middle eastern/asian/oriental/african style of politics!

The west's history includes so many wars in Europe, the slaughter of native peoples around the world (look at your own US natives!) The west has had its religious extremism for hundreds of years. Look at Ireland until very recently. So remember the "west" has killed tens of millions long before the middle east/asian troubles.

Bhutto is dead beause she was a woman and the extremists hate the idea of woman in charge.

Are you blaming this on me? YOU wait a minute I know about the Indians- As a American which I'm ashamed to admit. Sure I'm peeved about it after all I do have Cherokee roots in my family. What do you suggest I do?
Get my tomahawk? There is such thing as manners which most people don't have anymore.

I can say this (The west) we don't go blowing people up with suicide bombers either.

Its time for the world to stop their petty bickerings and GROW UP!! I'm getting sick and tired of hearing about another car bomb in Iraq killing 11. But life means nothing to these people.

And you tell me whoa there?

Thats the wrong thing to say to a (German-Cherokee) lady at 8:31am who didn't have her coffee yet.

But since you didn't know I will forgive you but don't step on my toes anymore ok and we'll get along fine.

reply to post by SaviorComplex


If you are of the Zorasterian, aka Parsi faith, formerly of Persia, now restricted to Western India, you have disposal towers on which you lay the body and allow the vultures who live around them to dispose of the remains, usually in a day or two.

reply to post by marg6043


no - there is still an "opposition" in Pakistan - the Pakistan Muslim League, led by Nawaz Sharif, another former prime minister of the nation. That said, Sharif is boycotting the Janaury 8th elections because of the assassination.

reply to post by moogah

He had announced his party was boycotting the elections several weeks ago.

My personal correction... not enough coffee... it was Bhutto who had said that they were boycotting the upcoming elections.

My mistake.

[edit on 28-12-2007 by grover]

reply to post by moogah


And according to the head of Pakistan's Muslim party, Sharif met with Bin Laden during the 90s, hoping to recruit Bin Laden to assassinate members of Bhutto's party.

There are so many theories making rounds as to who stood to gain the most out of BB's assasination. Yes, sure, Musharraf, Nawaz Sharif, the AQ all stand to gain......but is that the real picture?

My personal view does not support the above. The one that stands to gain the most is China. Reasons are given below.....

- Musharraf strong chinese supporter losing ground to BB by the day
- BB had strong links and was pro-american...so should she have come to power chinese would stand to lose
- China has a lot at stake, not only a close ally in Pakistan but also the heavy investments done by them in this region...eg Gawadar etc.
- the only way to keep musharraf in power = removal of Benazir Bhutto

Also, I would like to call to mind it was the chinese pressure which forced Musharraf to act in the red mosque siege recently and this time around i will not be too surprised if they had a hand to play in Benazir's assaination.

reply to post by marg6043


I think what is interesting is how the US is somehow to blame for radical fundamentalist assassinating this women. Some of you come here and bash the US on a daily basis saying our policies are bad and we are to blame for everything that happens in the World today. Well I hate to be the one to break the news to you but the US is not to blame in any way shape or form. When will people realize that terrorist are terrorist no matter what policy is in place. The goal of terrorists or Islamic fundamentalist is to destabilize organized governments. Put their harsh rule in place and oppress the people into doing their bidding. They use human shields, kill innocent women and children and make it their goal in life to die for Allah. I blame moderate Islam for this becasue not once have they ever stood up to these radicals and not once have they tried to police thier own back yards. They ask for Americas help then they back pedal when things get out of hand and blame us for thier inaction. IRAQ and afganistan are two examples of the people wanting freedom but dont want to do what it takes to make it happen. If anything I think the US should pull all of its troops from every foriegn country on the planet and see how they make out then with out our financial support and our protection. They will be crying at our doorstep soon after that when the evils of the world are hacking thier heads off or killing thier leaders on live TV.


And this is the fault of America? yeah right!!! If this is Americas fault then, this is the fault of liberal politics plain and simple.

reply to post by SaviorComplex


i'm not too sure who you mean by "pakistan's muslim party."
-moreover, if you're referring to the allegations made by Khalid Khawaja, you should note that he was a former member of the ISI which is, by all accounts, not really in favour of democratization in the region.

[edit on 28-12-2007 by moogah]

reply to post by moogah


That's exactly what I mean, the Muslim religious political party in Pakistan, the Jamaat-e-Islami. This isn't Sharif's group, called the Muslim League; that is a name only reincarnation of the group that fought for Pakistan's independence as a Muslim-state.

[edit on 28-12-2007 by SaviorComplex]

Originally posted by moogah
you should note that he was a former member of the ISI which is, by all accounts, not really in favour of democratization in the region.
[edit on 28-12-2007 by moogah]

It doesn't seem anyone really is...

...that aside, it would seem that someone in the ISI, for all it's supposed ties to al'Qaeda and the Taliban, would be in a position to know.

But like I said earlier, it's just a rumor.

reply to post by geemony


You really need to bone up on your history. Like it or not one of the reasons we are so despised in many parts of the world is our chronic meddling, especially during the cold war and especially in the Mid-east. And, such meddling has left a very sour taste in the mouth where we have. We via our CIA has backed several coups in Pakistan alone against legitimately elected governments because we thought they weren't in our best interests, Iran is the prime example... the Shah was deepley despised in Iran and in 1953 he was overthrown and a secular republic was elected to replace him... Well the U.S. did not like that and the CIA arranged to have that duly elected government overthrown and reinstalled the Shah who ruled, backed and armed by the US, with a very heavy fist until the revolution in the late 70's. And as they say the rest is history.

Originally posted by geemony
If this is Americas fault then, this is the fault of liberal politics plain and simple.

Well, obviously! Anyone could see that, clear as day! Yup, no need to elaborate on that point, or back it up in any sort of way!

But umm...for those of us who may have a bit of trouble viewing things with your level of clarity and political acumen, would you care to explain how it's "plain and simple" the fault of liberals?

[edit on 28-12-2007 by SaviorComplex]

reply to post by grover


So the US has the monopoly on trying to change governements around the world? I think it is sad that the US gets bashed for doing exactly what every other powerful country has done as well. I say the US is just that much better at doing it then any other country. Russia, China, Japan, GB, the list goes on and on of countries that try and change other countires governments to suit thier own. The US is not the only one on the planet doing this. i guess it would be better for America to stop doing this and let the others doing it continue to do it. Yeah America would be safe then right? Give me a break G do you really not see why America tries to create friends in the world? We win some we lose some, but we are better off for trying to spread democracy then allowing radical fundamentalist agendas to go unchecked around the world.

Originally posted by grover
reply to post by geemony

 

Iran is the prime example... the Shah was deepley despised in Iran and in 1953 he was overthrown and a secular republic was elected to replace him... Well the U.S. did not like that and the CIA arranged to have that duly elected government overthrown and reinstalled the Shah who ruled, backed and armed by the US, with a very heavy fist until the revolution in the late 70's. And as they say the rest is history.

You say the Shah was dispised in Iran. Maybe by the radical islamic mullas he was. But the majority of Iranian citizens embraced the reforms the Shah backed. And of course the US didnt like it when fundamentalists took control of IRAN. They hate the US and would do anything to kill us if they could. Why becasue democracy promotes self rule and allows for its citizens to think for themselves. Fundamentalism is the opposite, in that the people are told what to think and how to act. Yes a much better way to live right?

reply to post by geemony


Can we please, please, please steer this away from the "The USA is eeeeeeeeeeeevil, killed my puppy and knocked-up my teenage sister" and "No, it's not!!!11 We rock!!!11 USA! USA!" conversation and move it back to the topic at hand?

[edit on 28-12-2007 by SaviorComplex]

reply to post by kickoutthejams


Nothing that you said warrants the word "Fact" after it. As I said her religion requires her to be burried within a certain time, that's a fact!
Can you tell me how they are now reporting that she was not killed by the bullets but by flying shrapnel if no investigation what so ever was done.

Despite who you are are I can gaurantee you that any religious person would want to follow their beliefs for their final act on earth, regardless of how you die.

reply to post by SaviorComplex


I think it very relavent in this discussion especially when there are those that blame America for this. America is not evil and I have never said it was, so send your post to those that brought it up in the first place and not me.

Originally posted by efbeenie
Can you tell me how they are now reporting that she was not killed by the bullets but by flying shrapnel if no investigation what so ever was done.

Well, I'm not a forensic pathologist, but I am a thinker. As such, I think it would be pretty easy to tell if someone were killed by flying shrapnel, after a suicide bomber blew himself at almost point blank range, just by looking at the deceased.

Originally posted by SaviorComplex

Originally posted by geemony
If this is Americas fault then, this is the fault of liberal politics plain and simple.

Well, obviously! Anyone could see that, clear as day! Yup, no need to elaborate on that point, or back it up in any sort of way!

But umm...for those of us who may have a bit of trouble viewing things with your level of clarity and political acumen, would you care to explain how it's "plain and simple" the fault of liberals?

[edit on 28-12-2007 by SaviorComplex]

Never said it was the fault of librals you did. I said libral politics a bit different I think. anyway ill try and explain my point.

Mainly becasue Libralism and Islam do not go well togeather. I was not putting down libralism, my point was that I do not think libralism will ever work with-in the islamic religion's framework. Islamic countries tend to want total control over thier populations. This is my opinion of course and of course im entitled to that but below is a pretty good article about it. Islam is trying to embrace libralism however, its a hard road to go. And this murder in pakistan only adds to the difficulty.

www.socyberty.com...


Edit to try and be as clear as i can with my opinion.

[edit on 28-12-2007 by geemony]