10 y/o girl arrested for using knife to cut steak.

reply to post by scientist


Heh, forget the spoon, she should have been using a straw!

Fortunate for me, we never had that type of cafeteria in any of my schools, it was always bring your own lunch. But I can only imagine all the money the state must be pouring into those lunches. Seeing kids not eat them must get someones goat

reply to post by InSpiteOf


you are right, a straw would be better. spoons can be used as weapons moreso than straws. I grew up and went to school during a transition when schools started allowing fast food into the cafeterias and hallways. One year, all of a sudden... you could buy cookies, fries, doughnuts, cupcakes, chips, soda, etc. between classes and at lunch. I would have to say at least 50% of the kids would take their $2 of lunch money, and instead of buying a school lunch (which was unhealthy anyways), they would just buy a cup of fries, a cookie and a soda... until graduation.

Again, more propaganda and direct marketing to embed these corporate logos and slogans into childrens heads.

For chrissakes....

She's supposed to cut meat with a plastic knife or a metal butter knife ?

Frankly this story is VERY disturbing...

It goes a long way to explaining why people outside the US think of the US as a backwater in many respects...

And in a lot of cases, the sole reason why is the way your media reports stories...

Stories like this are so ridiculously un newsworthy it aint funny...

The kid knew she was having steak for lunch, she bought a steak knife from home in order to eat her lunch within her alloted lunch break and still have time for some R&R after...

Last thing she wants to do is spend 30 mins eating a steak...Hell, If i were in a restaurant, no way I'd eat a steak over 30 mins...It has to be hot...

Yet people on this thread who shall remain nameless and anonymous (unless you found yourselves on my foes list, you know who you are, so post away) paint this event to be something it is not

A kid eating a steak for lunch becomes a #estorm...

Give it a rest already ! Surely your country, like the rest of the world, has FAR more important things to deal with...

Get a grip on reality already (As I said earlier, you know who you are)...

reply to post by scientist

I dunno... I can stab a straw straight through a potato. Can't you?


As far as the whole communist/leftist argument. It's technically true, but being looked at in the wrong place. Teacher's unions are the commie culprits. Our teachers are indoctrinated by radical morons in charge of the unions (like most unions). Getting schools to abolish playing tag at recess or even saying the word "gun." All meant to condition them into being good, quiet, unthinking government subjects.

My mother is still a public school teacher and every year she comes close to retiring. It's disgusting what has happened to our schools. The invasion has been a complete success.

If you have kids, get them out of the public schools.

Amerciva is going worst and worst everyday, it is that the land of freedom?

Ok she did not have to bring her knive at school but why not just take it and make her a speech about weapon in school and outside, and why call the pigs? she is only 10years old, she did noting wrong and it was just to cut a piece of dead body.
And the knive they have at school to do it, are they less dangerous? And what about a fork? is it not dangerous too? i mean the school's fork in the eye of a little children is it better than he get stab by an outside knive?

So what your child will eat now? mashed potatoes or soup with a plastic straw?
Or is it also too dangerous?

If i was american i woul have emigrate since a long time.


FOR ROPER: do you think the right regime is less bloody then the left? excuse me but do you missed a war 60 years ago?
Government, from left to right are just the same, power and money, and they will do all they can for that so what's the difference between them except some changed rules?

reply to post by Rilence

People out of the United States think of us as backwater? That was a very rude statement.

This is a forum that is of the people and for the people. If some members wish to discuss the news concerning a 10 year old child being arrested for breaking a very serious rule at public school then it is their right to discuss it.

Why did you bother to read all the way to page three if you feel the way you do about the OP? Why waste your time?

reply to post by dizziedame


Ka-Ching !!!

Thanks for proving my point, BTW....

If this kid did something wrong under some stupid school rules, then the rules need to be changed, not the kids attitude...

Get a grip already...

Sheesh...

BTW, Happy New Year !!

You are saying the rules need to be changed so that any child may be allowed to bring steak knives into school?

I believe the rules are just fine the way they are. Of course I was a brat who got kicked out of highschool in my second year and then got my GED.

From a legal standpoint, it is an open and shut case. Children in public school do not have the right to bring certain objects and or parapheneila, and it is clearly outlined within school policy. the consequences of such actions are also clearly outlined.

I agree it was an overreaction, but lets not fool anyone here. If irresponsible parents would have the ability to discipline and educate their own children in good morals and ethics we would not have this problem. there is also the fact that no matter how hard a parent tries, a child will just do whatever he/she decides they will do.

Every year across America children younger than 12 years of age are arested for assaults with weapons on school grounds and off school grounds. Well unfortunately many children also die as a result of these actions.

So forgive me, but those who would love nothing more than to castrate the ability for the people of America to govern and secure their schools and children are not standing by day in day out in California, florida, texas, New york or any other public school systems making sure they can prevent any and every assault with a weapon at a moments notice. It is for this reason we have these policies, and why we consider them no tolerance.

The last thing any parent wants is for their child to come to harm at school while they were hard at work earning the money they need to support and nurture their child who they love dearly with tender care. Too many innocent kids have already died, are still dying, and will continue to die as a result of the degeneration of our culture, the least we can do is make a few rules and keep the numbers as low as possible.

because apparantly the crimes are not stopping. Yes we do need education reform. Maybe there are other things we need to do. But as of right now, this child may or may not have knowingly violated the policy, but i sure hope that the parent understands why it exists and that it did exist in the first place.

by far the LEO's were overkill considering there was no threat nor any sign of intent to commit a crime. But School officials must be bound by protocol as well as any other business or social service agency. (ie, public schools, public transit, police enforcement, fire departments are social services)

From the original story-

Captain Jimmy Pogue of the Marion County Sheriff's office said the 10-year-old was not treated like a criminal.

"I don't want people to feel like we're arresting 10-year-olds, handcuffing them, and hauling them off in a back of a patrol car and taking them to jail," Pogue told MyFOXOrlando. "That's not the circumstance."

I think this can be spun in a variety of different ways and it depends upon how you look at it. What's the policy? Is there a written set of guidelines enforcing a -0- tolerance policy on bringing any type of knife to school with a clearly delineated set of steps to follow in the event someone does?

You can't blame the teachers or school if that's the case. They'd have their heads handed to them if they break the policy. Sure it would be great if the school had the latitude to consider an appropriate action (like confiscating the knife and calling the parents in for a conference to explain the policy). But we're in a society filled with individuals who will use every opportunity to find the loophole and pushpushpush until an iron-clad set of unbendable regulations are set in place to cover every concievable circumstance and woe upon anyone who violates them.

And if you don't do it that way and give some leeway then you're in the "Hey it's not uniformly enforced and you're picking on my kid because he/she's [insert victim category here]".

Come on, we see a microcosm of it right here at ATS. There are "rules" that would seem to be fairly straightforward and understandable to any reasonable person, but someone will come along and find the perceived "loophole" and attempt to jump through it, with an excuse, "It doesn't say SPECIFICALLY not to do that."

So they write more rules. And in this day and age, I'm perfectly fine with a "no knives in school" policy. I know I like a good steak sandwich.

The buck stops with the members of a community that allow their elected officials (local gov't, school boards, etc.) to create a policy which takes the decision making out of the hands of the people on-site.

There is no simple answer because we're dealing with people, half of whom are below average.

Originally posted by dizziedame
reply to post by Rilence

 

10 year old child being arrested for breaking a very serious rule at public school

apparently, your definition of a serious rule is much different from my own, unless I am misunderstanding you.

also, some of you are debating two different things. To make myself clear, I am against zero tolerance policies (ALL of them, no matter what - because they always result in stupid events like this). as the previous poster was saying - there needs to be zero tolerance so people don't feel one was let off and another not unjustly - that's a cop-out, and it's bull. Even with zero tolerance, there are always cases in which someone makes a decision based on an assumption... for example, if nobody saw her with the knife, but the principal got 15 complaints she had a sharp knife at lunch.

[edit on 28-12-2007 by scientist]

I do believe there should be zero tolerance policies in school. for instance, if billy bob 15 year old decides it would be cool to show off his AR-15 in school, even if it was not loaded, nor did he pose a threat or stated a threat to anyone.

It begins to cause a ripple effect that says "hey, this guy is cool because he owns an assualt rifle and we got to mess with it" now many kids will begin to bring guns to school for being cool, but may not be nearly as responsible as billy bob. eventually one kid wants to take the other's gun, he sees it as a threat to his life, bang bang, two lives ruined, or many more.

i would firmly back that zero tolerance policy. Same applies to a knife. a pencil has to be specialy modified to become a serious bodily harm. It is not as easy as one may think to go after an eyeball when a person is blocking or jukin an assailant.

a knife can slit throats, easily reach into organs, even severe some extremeties.

just remember when kids are at school, someone else is taking care of them. would you fel comfortable knowing their caretakers freely allow childen to bring machetes, knives, hatchets, or other cutting/slashing/chopping tools to school? there are too many jackasses in schools today imo to allow such carelessness, and it would be unfair to make exceptions.

[edit on 12/28/2007 by DYepes]

Originally posted by DYepes
I do believe there should be zero tolerance policies in school. for instance, if billy bob 15 year old decides it would be cool to show off his AR-15 in school, even if it was not loaded, nor did he pose a threat or stated a threat to anyone.

but that has nothing to do with zero tolerance, does it? That just means there needs to be a rule that kids can't bring guns to school. I know we had a "zero tolerance" for guns in our schools, yet the on campus cops had them. That's not exactly zero tolerance at all either.

It begins to cause a ripple effect that says "hey, this guy is cool because he owns an assualt rifle and we got to mess with it" now many kids will begin to bring guns to school for being cool, but may not be nearly as responsible as billy bob. eventually one kid wants to take the other's gun, he sees it as a threat to his life, bang bang, two lives ruined, or many more.

what in the heck are you talking about? How does anti-zero tolerance equate to "it's ok to bring guns to school?"

i would firmly back that zero tolerance policy. Same applies to a knife.

You still havent described any type of zero tolerance, so I have no idea what you are talking about still. Zero tolerance for knives means that if you have a kitchen knife in your car, in a box marked "kitchen supplies" in the school parking lot, you will get arrested all the same as if you had brought it int a classroom and brandished it for all to see in the middle of class.

Perhaps you do not understand what a zero tolerance policy means.

a pencil has to be specialy modified to become a serious bodily harm.

yes, they call them pencil sharpeners. trust me, I have stabbed people with a regular sharpened pencil. It goes just as deep as anything else you might stab someone with, plus the lead can break off and cause a big scare as to lead poisoning and etc.

a knife can slit throats, easily reach into organs, even severe some extremeties.

so what does this have to do with zero tolerance again? Knives are made to be sharp, that is their entire purpose. I fail to see a point.

would you fel comfortable knowing their caretakers freely allow childen to bring machetes, knives, hatchets, or other cutting/slashing/chopping tools to school?

I feel like Im repeating myself, but that's probably because you are too. Anti-zero tolerance does not mean it's ok to bring guns and knives to school. It just means that each case is looked at individually, not just pigeon holed without paying attention to intent or etc.

[edit on 28-12-2007 by scientist]

Originally posted by DYepes
i would firmly back that zero tolerance policy. ]

I support a zero tolerance party for the religiously afflicted.

These people should be rounded up and fed to all the hungry little puppies and kittens in the world.

Hooray for zero tolerance.

Please go bathe in barbecue sauce now, we, the zero tolerance patrol, are coming for you, and we want you to taste good to our puppies and kittens.

in response to scientist:
I agree with your assesment of the situation at hand kind sir, and believe in fact I may in fact have mis-understood the zero tolerance policy.

It would in fact make sense to handle each case individually, but would also like to point out that it would in fact open up the offices to open corruption. I do not think I have to point the many scenarios that could easily popup in today's school that would produce favoritism and lax enforcement.

That just reminds the students that they must be vigilante when it comes to their education advisers.

reply to post by DYepes


C'mon man, how can you compare a 10 years old girl who bring a knife to cut her steak,( and she probably think there wasn't problem about that) with a 15 years old who bring gun at school for being the coolest guy of the school ? Seriously, don't you think there is a big, huge, enormous gap between this two cases?

The only crime here, is they killed a cow.

If people have gun at home, guns will be at school, simply as that, one day or another the child will know that his parents have a gun and then take it.

Zero tolerance? With what will they eat their lunch, with what the chief will cook their lunch?

""a pencil has to be specialy modified to become a serious bodily harm""

Ok then they will all come at school with their laptop then, oh no they could electrocute a kid in manipulating the power supply and even break it on the head of another, and even hacking the pentagon.

C'mon man, again, this is about school not jail, if there is a problem with weapon then the law is probably wrong, and in the u.s. you have a big weapon problem, that remember me bowling for colombian, when michael tell the story about this canadian town on the u.s. border who had only one murder case in 25 years, and the murderer was an american who cross the border to kill the guy..... This town: 1 kill, cross the border: far more.

Also, if i follow your view, there must be a law about sandbox in the pre-school! why? hey dude, they could bury their friends alive....


[edit on 28-12-2007 by ufopunx]

Originally posted by DYepes
It would in fact make sense to handle each case individually, but would also like to point out that it would in fact open up the offices to open corruption.

I agree, and that's unfortunate. However, corruption would be an added side effect, not an inherent part of the process. Zero-tolerance on the other hand has unjust practices built right in.

They had a rule while I was a school, 'any blade over 3 inches is considered a knife and a dangerous weapon.'

So we were actually ALLOWED to have pocket knifes! This wasn't that long ago either...

Nowadays? Little children are getting the book thrown at them for bringing FINGERNAIL CLIPPERS to school.

What's going on here isn't just ridiculous. It isn't just to make America say 'wow that's unbelievable.' What they are doing is practically taking little children into custody, showing their parents, and society, 'this is how powerful we are. The law says I can take your children for any reason, and I will.'

Now, granted, little girls should not carry steak knives to school : but that was never the point of this lil routine that is going on all over the country. It's about publicly enforcing law on little children to make society and parents feel helpless - just let the system handle your little daughter for having a felony weapon, just let the school call the police on your boy for bringing fingernail clippers. Don't fight us.

*sigh*

It really appears to me the only people that are over-reacting is everyone here.

It as if the "here and there" goof ups of adherance to the law and publicly accepted policy justifies completely removing the protections that help deter the thought of bringing dangerous tools to school.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too. due to the media content America's children are exposed to, and the behavioral mischiefs the average joe and jane are allowing their children to get away with violence among youths will continue to rise. The only way to combat that violence in the education department is to enforce strictly these rules.

If you do not approve of these policies, you must home school your child, or work to change the media content which is influencing generations of youth starting from birth and single day of their life.

I personally am not concerned too much because all this inaction will cuase our society to collapse in on itself if it continues to fester to its boiling point and then the real people will rise up, and everyone else is just going to nod their heads and say yes sir because they are fear stricken and indecisive and unable to lead, only follow.

I'll see you all on the other side *wink, wink*

reply to post by watch_the_rocks


Its the schools that have flipped out and for good reason. The parent is at fault here for being stupid and not thinking. We adults can carry guns and knives as long as they are not concealed then you need a permit for the gun and the Knife cant be more than a pocket knife with less than 4 inches of blade.

reply to post by DYepes


so are you saying that police intervention was the best way to solve this, and not a teacher asking her for the knife? Did it really take the gestapo to remove the weapon from the would-be 10 year old assailant?