Senate Passes Veterans Disarmament Bill

reply to post by GradyPhilpott


I was happy to read everything you posted until I got to "the NRA supports this bill".

The NRA is no longer for the protection of the 2nd Amendment. They have been compromised. When the president of the NRA says publicly that "no law abiding citizen needs a rifle with a capacity greater then 3 or 5 rounds" they are no longer to be trusted. Everyone I shoot with has cancelled their NRA memberships including my me. The holdouts are the old timers who are not politically aware and the Neo-con Clinton and Bush supporters who think it is a good idea to disarm the people.

Originally posted by dizziedame
PTSD = A monthly disability check and other goodies that come with the title.

Is this a "without exception" remark, by that i mean is your comment saying that anyone with PTSD is claiming the condition just for the "monthly disability cheque and goodies"?

Or do you think that maybe some vets really do suffer with PTSD, or whatever you wish to call it?

I promise you, for those who genuinely suffer from this, a disability cheque whilst helpfull, does little to comfort what they have to go through on a daily basis.

Apologies if i am jumping to the wrong conclusion here, but your post read as though you were almost dubious there was such a thing as combat related stress.

Also, for anyone who says that "everyone gets stressed in life" and it's the same after effects for everyone, i would'nt wish a day in the life of someone with severe PTSD on my worst enemy.

A passionate subject for some i guess. Not so for those without a clue though it would appear.

CX.

Originally posted by Tinhatman
When the president of the NRA says publicly that "no law abiding citizen needs a rifle with a capacity greater then 3 or 5 rounds" they are no longer to be trusted.

This is news to me.

Back when magazine capacities were being limited to 10 rounds, not 3-5, the NRA was dead set against capacity limits and for good reason.

You'll need a citation to convince me of that insofar as I'm a Benefactor Member of the NRA, a member of the Golden Eagles, and a Member of the Second Amendment Task Force.

I am inundated with information about the NRAs stance on the issues and this has somehow eluded me.

Citation, please.

Thank you.

[edit on 2008/1/5 by GradyPhilpott]

Does this bill only affect permits for a handgun, or is a rifle off limits too?

Are we going to deny Veterans with PTSD the right to hunt game?

Will they be allowed to live in a home with weapons as long as someone else owns them?

Could the Veterans Admin realize that they are going to be swamped with PTSD claims and this is the Governments way of discouraging Veterans to file for their rightful compensation?

I would rather face a Veteran with PTSD and a gun, than a crack head with a gun! At least a Veteran knows how to use a weapon, and more importantly when NOT to use it.

So this is how we "Support Our Troops." Yah right....

I didn't read through the whole thread yet, so I apolgize if this has already been stated.

This basically equals being sanctioned against getting treatment. Are they trying to ban the guns, or stop the soldiers from trying to get treatment for PTSD to lower costs, or both? It's hard enough to get people to admit when they need mental help. So now these soldiers won't get the help they need and deserve, because they want to retain the most precious right any soldier fights for. The right to carry a gun. Then the ones who do go off the farm will be armed anyway because they were never treated for their problem.

And then what about all the cops and ATF agents who were in combat? Do they get disarmed too?

reply to post by jackinthebox



It's a lie. There is no bill or law that is designed to prevent veterans as a class, even those with PTSD, from exercising their Second Amendment rights.

www.nraila.org...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 2008/1/6 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by Tinhatman
When the president of the NRA says publicly that "no law abiding citizen needs a rifle with a capacity greater then 3 or 5 rounds" they are no longer to be trusted.

This is news to me.

Back when magazine capacities were being limited to 10 rounds, not 3-5, the NRA was dead set against capacity limits and for good reason.

You'll need a citation to convince me of that insofar as I'm a Benefactor Member of the NRA, a member of the Golden Eagles, and a Member of the Second Amendment Task Force.

I am inundated with information about the NRAs stance on the issues and this has somehow eluded me.

Citation, please.

Thank you.

[edit on 2008/1/5 by GradyPhilpott]

I dont have a link , But the reason the NRA is now a Government stooge is because the new president of the NRA is a " LAWYER" and he is for gun control.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
reply to post by jackinthebox

 

It's a lie. There is no bill or law that is designed to prevent veterans as a class, even those with PTSD, from exercising their Second Amendment rights.

www.nraila.org...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 2008/1/6 by GradyPhilpott]

All the president has to do is sign it and it goes into effect.

ap.google.com...
Congress OKs Va Tech-Inspired Gun Bill
ap.google.com...

By LAURIE KELLMAN – 4 hours ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — Congress passed a long-stalled bill inspired by the Virginia Tech shootings that would more easily flag prospective gun buyers who have documented mental health problems. The measure also would help states with the cost. Passage by voice votes in the House and Senate Wednesday came after months of negotiations between Senate Democrats and the lone Republican, Sen. Tom Coburn of Oklahoma, who had objected and delayed passage. It was not immediately clear whether President Bush intended to sign, veto or ignore the bill. If Congress does not technically go out of session, as Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., has threatened, the bill would become law if Bush does not act within 10 days. "This bill will make America safer without affecting the rights of a single law-abiding citizen," said the Senate's chief sponsor, New York Democrat Chuck Schumer. One of the House's chief sponsors, Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, spoke in the full House about her husband, who was killed by a gunman on the Long Island Railroad in New York. "To me, this is the best Christmas present I could ever receive," said McCarthy, D-N.Y. Rep. John Dingell, D-Mich., added that the bill will speed up background checks and reinforce the rights of law abiding gun owners. Propelling the bill were the Virginia Tech shootings on April 16 and rare agreement between political foes, the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence and the National Rifle Association. But other interest groups said that in forging compromise with the gun lobby, the bill's authors unintentionally imposed an unnecessary burden on government agencies by freeing up thousands of people to buy guns.

"Rather than focusing on improving the current laws prohibiting people with certain mental health disabilities from buying guns, the bill is now nothing more than a gun lobby wish list," said Kristen Rand, legislative director of the Violence Policy Center. "It will waste millions of taxpayer dollars restoring the gun privileges of persons previously determined to present a danger to themselves or others."

The measure would clarify what mental health records should be reported to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, which help gun dealers determine whether to sell a firearm to a prospective buyer, and give states financial incentives for compliance. The attorney general could penalize states if they fail to meet compliance targets.

[edit: added external source tags]
Mod Edit: External Source Tags – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 6-1-2008 by 12m8keall2c]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
reply to post by jackinthebox

 

It's a lie. There is no bill or law that is designed to prevent veterans as a class, even those with PTSD, from exercising their Second Amendment rights.

www.nraila.org...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 2008/1/6 by GradyPhilpott]

Check out the link.

Having passed in both the House and Senate, this bill now awaits the signature of the President before becoming law. [Last Updated: Jan 3, 2008]

www.govtrack.us...

Bush still not put his signature on it, did it become law without his signature or was it Pocket veto. I can't fine any news, other than what has been posted.

Here is another link to read.

VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS


www.newswithviews.com...

reply to post by Nailer


I just logged in and checked this thread, I too am looking for the link as well. Heston's NRA is DEAD. The new NRA is a political group used for garnering votes and money.

I first saw the qoute linked on video from Strike The Root. I am trying to track it down now.

What about the current military? Many of them currently serving have been diagnosed with this? My former SIL called me one day crying because he had went to seek help at the VA hospital for this and had been turned away and was told he did not qualify for help.

He was a veteran of Afghanistan (6 months) and Iraq (14 months) but they said he did not qualify. I told him to go back and keep talking to someone until he got help. I really don't know if he did or not as he and my daughter are now divorced.

I do know he signed back up to get the medical help he needed and to have a job. I also know I saw on the news where the military was sending men into combat who had this diagnosis, so will this also apply to them?

Is no one here capable of reading.

The bill is not designed to prevent veterans from exercising their Constitutional rights.

This bill is designed to prevent those who have been adjudicated by a court to be a danger to themselves and others from purchasing and possessing firearms.

This discussion is predicated on two misconceptions. One, is that the bill is designed to target veterans with PTSD.

The other is that PTSD is a disorder that makes one a danger to himself and others.

And still, a diagnosis of PTSD is not enough to bar anyone from buying and possessing a firearm.

That will require judicial intervention.

Whatever is meant by Charlton Heston NRA, the NRA still stands behind the Second Amendment, the NRA recognizes that there are those whose mental status renders them incapable of making rational decisions and when these people have access to lethal weapons, it endangers the rights of us all.



[edit on 2008/1/7 by GradyPhilpott]

Here is a page from a Pro 2nd Amendment Gun rigths group on this new passage.

Correct link this time !!!


[edit on 7-1-2008 by Tinhatman]

reply to post by GradyPhilpott


The bill states that anyone that is determined by a psychologist a danger to themselves or others. The problem is on who gets to set the definition and requirements to get on the list. The reason why the NRA is looked down upon for this is because it puts someones 2nd amendment rights into the hands of a Psychologist. They are calling it a veterans disarmament bill because if you are adjudicated as incompetent but found at a later date to be recovered and competent it is nearly impossible to get
off of the "No-Own" list. Many sufferers from PTSD are initially determined to be medically disabled but after even minimal treatment can recover to a state of normalcy and be found once again to be "of sound mind.

I don't quite understand something.

So veterans who served in say, Vietnam, who went through hell, no longer have the right to own guns.

If this is so, why is John McCain a candidate for the Presidency of the United States of America? Why is a guy who was a prisoner of war, and went through so much hell, eligible to be the Command-in-Chief of one of the biggest Military forces on Earth?

Isn't that kind of contradicting the Bill?

reply to post by dizziedame


I think the founding fathers of this great country of ours knew exactly what they were doing when they made the Constitution the way they did.
Many, many, men and women have died for the cause of freedom and that someone like you can say the things you have.to demean them. Shame on you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Won't it be great when only the criminals and our wonderful ? cops are thge only ones who have guns. Try living in another country where this is happening and see what you think of having an unarmed populace. If you knew any history at all you would cling onto all of our RIGHTS.
Long live the Second Amendment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! God Bless America and its veterans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You can say what you want because it is your Right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If they mess with the second amendment what makes you think that once they get rid of the Second Amendment they will decide that free speech is not good. After all they are only looking out for your own good???????????

ADD/ADHD is NOT a mental illness. So, if one is diagnosed with this neurological disorder, then one does not need to worry about this bill. Undereducation of these issues really peeves me off. And it is disgusting that lawmakers are too dumb to realize that adhd is NOT a mental illness.

I think once PTSD is treated, your right to bear arms should be returned.

Guns are not the only weapon that we have, though. I will be arming myself with other things.

This also included anyone that has ever gone to the Dr. and complained of Depression. The rules of engagement here are to take the guns out of the hands of anyone who is deemed against them.

Not going to happen...

I am SO on the side of Vets to keep a weapon. I had a dear friend who passed away last year, he was totally jacked up from Nam, he hired me as his house cleaner for a while because he trusted me, kind of.

Where he sat in the livingroom was a coffee table which had no room for even a cup or ashtray, it was filled with Guns of all kinds. He was known to shoot them too. Yes he was crazy, but I did not fear him, I do fear these aholes who are out to take away all rights from the vets.

There are already laws on the books, Federal laws, making it illegal to attenpt to purchase a firearm if you have a diagnosis of a mental illness or have alcoholism or drug addiction and abuse.
There ae also laws making it a federal crime to attempt to purchase a firearm if you are a convicted felon.
In 1999 Clinton passed a law allowing the veterans administration to have their computers talk to the ATF.
The Veterans Computers downloaded names of all veterans who had any psychiatric service connected disability, even if the SCD was for six months.
Those veterans can not purchase firearms via the instant background check. What a wealth of experience and talent in the pool of potential weapons bearers this loss is.