Child Arrested, Charged for opening Xmas present early!!

reply to post by eyewitness86


Unfortunately I was unable to read the article through the link, but the partial article did not seem to tell the whole story as it is being relayed by you.

If the child was given the present and violated a rule of the parent, there is def No crime. For there to be a crime an action must meet the elements. Period. No violation of the 'and' 'or' no crime.

So forgive me for saying because I did not get the link to go through, so this is a devils advocate type thing for the readers. ALL ARRESTS with or without a warrant must be based on PC or (Probable Cause) there must be a sufficient amount of knowledge that would lead a reasonable police officer to beleive the child committed a crime.

No elements, no crime, no charge! period

On the other hand if the child did take the present before it was given to him/her and the childs mother reported it, that in itself would be the PC for the charge (that is if it met the elements of a crime).

Dealing with Law Enforcement Police Officers are asked to deal with a wide array of junk and I do mean junk. Stuff that has fallen apart for so long is seemingly supposed to be fixed by a visit from the Police...This is just not reality and any good Officer should know this. You cannot fix a problem that has been on going over night and although a police officer can say what he wants, the best way to deal with a situation like this is prob refer to a family support service...Not social services...although it may lead there, it should not start there.

If the child is that out of control I do not understand what the mother is doing re-enforcing his/her behavior by buying him/her a video game system anyway. It sounds like a difficult situation

reply to post by eyewitness86


On this POST I am going to have to argue a touch...most Police do care (or they prob would not be doing the job)and are given training to handle all types of domestics. Once again on a daily situation police encounters involve prob 70 to 80% of non arrestable offenses.

I do agree with you that the police should not be called for every little matter but it is quite common for parents to call the police about an unruly child. I do agree that this is in response to a huge societal problem that is ongoing in our country and I am not even going to get into where I think the cause and effect came from.

I agree with you eyewitness that this is sad but often I think the quick fix for frustrated parent is to call the cops

More broadly, I guess I'm not surprised. The science of parenting (or is it an 'art'?) has been lost on this most recent generation of Mothers and Fathers. It may be because they are the first full production models of the household with both parents working full time. They grew up in day care centers or as latch key kids. They had no real role models to serve as a foundation for child rearing.

But no excuses. This is pretty sad. It goes right along with a society that depends on TV Super Nannies for the most basic information on how to raise a youngun.

...

Originally posted by cloakndagger
If this is real then the mother needs a smack across the face. The police should learn the law better. Society is so brainwashed it's really starting to show.

I think the kid needs a smack around the face to be honest.

The next parenting fad;

“Getting tired of all that annoying parenting? You’re child is misbehaving and it’s just too darn inconvenient? Outsource all your parenting needs to local police department specialists for our new “police parental services”!

We’ll whip’em back in shape in no time, while you’ll get all the time you want to enjoy shopping and watching TV”!


Enjoy your new World, sheeple.

What we really need is more face smacking, guns, and fist fights!

Let’s go America, let’s hit the streets good old style and show the world what we’re really made of!

Breaking news!

An 8th month baby still in the womb of its bearing mother is being charged with assault and sexual harassment. The charges are being brought by the father of the child, who felt it kick the victim (wife) from with in her womb.

The father was shocked by the display of such brutality from his unborn child, and did what any good citizen would; he called the police and reported such heinous assault and blatant abuse of his loved one.

Upon arrival police promptly arrived at the scene, and proceeded with the arrest. Police report states that the perp resisted arrest by refusing to appear, and the use of tazors was required in order to stimulate the perp into cooperation, but then a possibility of a hostage situation forced the police retreat and wait for the arrival of a negotiator.

As police report, the negotiator succeeded in persuading the perp into surrendering, and it was taken into custody along with the alleged victim (bearing mother).

The Miranda rights were read but do to perp’s inability to speak the mother/victim had to confirm that the rights were understood on the behalf of her unborn assailant.

The controversy lies with required questioning of the unborn assailant. The judge is to decide if a court ordered cesarean should be carried out, or if investigators should wait until the perp is born naturally and given enough time to acquire linguistic skills sufficient enough to give submit for interrogation.

The prosecutor is pushing for immediate cesarean in order to collect vital evidence which could be lost during the birthing process, and assures that no speaking or comprehension skills will be needed to try the defendant in this case.

Source:

www.nearfuture.com/sheeple=keep=getting=dumber=while=we=are=laughing=right=at=them.html

If the link doesn’t work, just wait a few years…

Originally posted by birchtree
reply to post by eyewitness86

 

On this POST I am going to have to argue a touch...most Police do care (or they prob would not be doing the job)and are given training to handle all types of domestics. Once again on a daily situation police encounters involve prob 70 to 80% of non arrestable offenses.

I do agree with you that the police should not be called for every little matter but it is quite common for parents to call the police about an unruly child. I do agree that this is in response to a huge societal problem that is ongoing in our country and I am not even going to get into where I think the cause and effect came from.

I agree with you eyewitness that this is sad but often I think the quick fix for frustrated parent is to call the cops

Could you please link to a site that shows us the ' training ' that cop's receive in domestic relations? There is NONE!! They are taught to either ARREST, or NOT ARREST, and that is the extent of their professional marriage/family counseling abilities. Cop's do NOT have degrees in psychology or anything else no doubt: They are there to enforce the LAW, NOT to arrest our way out of family squabbles. They are NOT trained and not prepared to do anything but arrest. Thats it.

And how does arresting a child under false pretenses ' get respect ' going? Will the kid respect the LAW when it is used against him improperly?

Actually this does work, i remember my mother, and my grandmother and plenty of other families using the line "if you dont behave i'll get that policeman to have a talk to you" Of course this was back when policemen still used to walk the beat, but oh well. Respect comes with a little fear of the unknown, once that fear is gone so is respect. Familiarity breeds contempt. If this kid knows his mother will never make good on her threats he will never be well behaved. Now he doesn't know, and that is exactly what the mother was trying to achieve. I hope he will have second thoughts before acting like a little tearaway in future.

Just wondering if you have any kids yourself, and can offer a decent alternative solution that the woman could have tried. If we looked on the net I'm pretty sure we could find a case of a child having his/her mother prosecuted for violating her human rights or for assault. Just for the mother doing her parental duty, now that is political correctness gone mad.

I agree completely it was a waste of police time, and I also applaud her for it.

reply to post by eyewitness86


I am sorry you do not think there is domestic training in Police Academies or in the Continuing Educational Units of Police Officers...at the Law Enforcement Training Center there are extensive training courses in domestic training. Just in the basic academy these are just a few things that are covered

Responding and understanding the domestic situation: this includes understanding the psychology of a domestic victim. The diff in responses to domestic violence that a child will show versus adults.

There is a full portion of the course that is dedicated to dealing with children from the psychological effects that a toddler will show (such as clinging on to a stranger vs. their parents-to how Teens react when questioned about abuse

Police do a lot more obviously than what you realize, this even includes understanding the physiological reactions. Police understand a lot more than you think... and as far as psychology goes you do not need to be a shrink to deal with these types of situations you just need to be a shrink to testify on psychology..and there are even courses for police officers to be expert witnesses on psychology and domestics......Maybe not all but some Police do care and will go out of there way to try and help... I know a police officer who has an agreement with a local motel to house abused victims for a couple days till shelters become available. I think your view here is very skewed, and the facts are police academies do teach Interviewing, The Psycholgy and Physiology of these types of situations and how to deal with them, because guess why they come into contact with them on a daily basis. It sounds to me like you need to to a little more research on what Police are trained to do.

[edit on 21-12-2007 by birchtree]

I haven't read all the posts yet but have a comment.

If the kid is such a hellian, why was he getting a video gaming system for Christmas anyway?

I'm sorry but people have to start taking responsibility for spoiling their own children.

reply to post by Griff


That is exactly what I am saying, why, if the parent wanted the child to change would she re-enforce the childs behavior with some cool toy. We can allude to how horrible the police are here but in fact, The mother is responsible for her child, this includes the raising of the child, not just watching him grow, she is the one that called the police and she is the one that bought the video game or whatever it was for the kid who prob should have maybe recieved some coal. It seems to be all about the police, where is the mothers responsibilty.

reply to post by eyewitness86


i have to disagree with you on this one...the police are thre to help people in times of need...as someone stated before the kid does not own the present untill it is given to him...he stole it from his mother...the kid is troubled and the mom did what she had to do...although in a way i think it was a little extreme....as someone noted earlier she should have just taken it back and said screw you to him....maybe he would think twice about doing it again....but then again the kid has problems has stolen before so he would probably get mad and just steal again....any way you look at it the kid needs severe help...good find though

Originally posted by birchtree
reply to post by eyewitness86

 

I am sorry you do not think there is domestic training in Police Academies or in the Continuing Educational Units of Police Officers...at the Law Enforcement Training Center there are extensive training courses in domestic training. Just in the basic academy these are just a few things that are covered.....



[edit on 21-12-2007 by birchtree]

A half hour course on how to recognize kids body language is NOT what is needed for counseling. People go to college for many years to get degrees specializing in family relations and marriage counseling, and to allege that cop's, of all people, are qualified to act as mediators is a laugh. Cop's do ONE of TWO things: They arrest, or they do not. They do NOT spend time talking about the issues: They tell the people: " If we get any more calls from here tonight someone is going to jail." THAT is the extent of the practical abilities in counseling!!

We can see exactly how effective the ' counseling ' was in this case: A 12 year old kid gets arrested because Mom is either too weak or too stupid to pick up a PHONE BOOK AND LOOK UNDER " SOCIAL SERVICES ' for help. Social services is the agency that is SUPPOSED to deal with family matters that go beyond the ability of the parent to control: NOT call in the guns and handcuffs automatically. The stupid pig's did not even call the social services people: All they know is ' lock 'em up ' and that is the extent of their interest>

As for those of you asking about ME, not that it should matter, but I graduated from the Police Academy in college in Miami many years ago, and was in the security business for many years. I was a sworn officer with the City of Miami Police as a Special Officer when I was in charge of a dept. store security team. My Dad was a cop in Miami for 30 years, Uncle was the Chief, his son the FBI agent. I grew up in a police station. I have seen it all. I know more about real cops and real justice than the vast majority of you youngsters here trying to defend the indefensible. I know the real deal.

I have personally seen cop's brutalize prisoners, spray Mace in drunks eyes and laugh as the man screamed and writhed on the floor, seen cop's break bones and falsely arrest a hundred times, for as little as ' bad attitude '. Don't tell ME that cop's are mostly good guys and looking out for the citizens, thats a lie. Most cop's see the citizen as nothing more than another potential arrestee, another ' civilian '. They could care less if the people get helped as long as they can finish the report and move on to easier tasks. Sure, there are the rare exceptions, a good cop who obeys the laws himself and does not abuse people; but they are the exception and not the rule.

I have three kids now: 19, 16 and 13, and all of them know what to say if some thug cop gets in their face: I refuse to give consent to any searches, and I have nothing to say without an attorney ..call my Dad." Then they clam up and say nothing until I and the attrney get there and start raising hell. My kids do NOT trust cop's, and they do not like cop's, because they read the true stories and I teach them to never ever trust a cop: Cop's are there to protect and serve, and when they stop doing that and move into any other area then they are out of line.

This is a case of a Mom too dunb to know not to call the cop's for family matters, and the cop's who are always willing to slap the cuffs on and drag another kid to jail so they can get back to the important stuff: Bribes, donuts, sexual escapades,violating Constitutional rights and asking us to give up our protections voluntarily so they can have all power over us.

Anyone who calls the cop's to deal with a 12 year old should have no kids at all: they simply are too weak and stupid to figure out that society actually has a set up for this exact thing: it is called social services and they are in every county in the USA. They handle the people who have issues and cannot afford private doctors and such. The cop's who went to that house had no brains and no common sense, or this would never have happened. Battle lines are being drawn in this nation, and the cop you worship today is going to stick his nightstick down your throat when he gets the chance, and he will have no mercy: That is one thing that the academies NEVER teach!!

Larceny was the proper charge and warranted.

A possession still belongs to the giver until it is
bestowed upon that individual. Just like an inheritance.
You know what your folks have (most times) but you
have to wait for it to be handed down to you.
Yes it is larceny and if the 12 yr old kid has no more
respect for his mother than to disobey his mother's
wishes then she has the right to punish the kid for
his actions. That's what's wrong with the world today.
Not enough kids respect and obey their parents.
I have a 12 yr old .... and if he did what that kid did.
He would get the spanking of his life. Hats off to the
mother on this one. The kid deserved it.

You think he got it bad for taking that gift? Check this story out.

ROCK SPRINGS, Wyo. - A woman stabbed her husband with a kitchen knife following an argument that began when she accused him of opening a Christmas present early, authorities said Friday.
YAHOO NEWS

Originally posted by SimonSays
Larceny was the proper charge and warranted.

A possession still belongs to the giver until it is
bestowed upon that individual. Just like an inheritance.
You know what your folks have (most times) but you
have to wait for it to be handed down to you.
Yes it is larceny and if the 12 yr old kid has no more
respect for his mother than to disobey his mother's
wishes then she has the right to punish the kid for
his actions. That's what's wrong with the world today.
Not enough kids respect and obey their parents.
I have a 12 yr old .... and if he did what that kid did.
He would get the spanking of his life. Hats off to the
mother on this one. The kid deserved it.

Nonsense. Was LARCENY the INTENT of the kid? If not then there was no larceny. Larceny is when you INTENTIONALLY steal something. You KNOW it is not yours, yet you take it anyway. The present was HIS, given to him by his Mom. Had he not opened it, it would have remained his until he did open it. But he broke a RULE, people..you must know the difference between a rule made by a parent, and a LAW made by a legislature. If you do not, then obviously you have no business commenting on laws and rules.

You say you would ' spank ' a 12 year old if he disobeyed you: Why didn't you say you would call the police and let them do your job for you? Thats what the Mom in this case did: She didn't have the common sense to call social services, and now we see a 12 year old arrested and haulked away because his Mommy got mad !! What a great reason to abuse the system..sickening. How can anyone with any knowledge of the law support some cop using the larceny laws against a kid who only needs some discipline? It is NOT the job of cop's to be a part of the parental disciplinary regimen, no way.

The kid may have deserved punishment, but that should have been losing the present for good, or some other in home sanction, but NEVER call the cop's to do the work of a parent. The law is misused when this happens, and thats bad for us all. The charge WILL be dropped, I will bet anything, and that means it should never have been brought to begin with. Disrespect for the law starts with crap like this: Using the law wrongly is a bad mistake.

To the OP you obviously have a problem with law enforcement, after reading all your posts on this and the illegal immigrant thread.

Have you had some bad experiences with the law or something. I have, nothing more than traffic, but a couple of big violations. I respect the blue for doing there jobs.

The cops are the last one that you should be griping about in this story, why are they always the bad guy? You should become a cop so you can set an example for the rest of them.

Also, why would cops go to extensive training coarses in phsycology. They aren't doctors, they are policemen/women. It's not there job to go to peoples house and cousel them.

reply to post by efbeenie


But they ARE given DISCRETION.

They should NOT have charged the kid. Ok to scare him a bit, and the mother is also to blame, but C'MON! I mean charging a 12 yr. old for opening a Christmas present?!?

Use some of the DISCRETION the state gives you!!!

reply to post by eyewitness86


I agree with you. The problem is though, that the cops can charge you for whatever they want, and it truly is GUILTY until proven INNOCENT.

Good post though.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
The fact that the mother does not have a problem calling police on her spoiled brat of a child, is a good thing..

My bet is that this is a strong clue why the child is on the path he's on to begin with...

Just a guess.