Scientists warn ET may be dangerous

They probably already received Hitler's speeches or a few porno's anyway, they might be already on the way

On a more serious note, I disagree with most opinions I've seen about aliens. The first group believe that any sufficiently advanced civilisation is benevolent and I think that's nonsense. Why should another species that finds us feel the want or need to help us at their risk and cost?

Another group believe they are outright malevolent and dangerous, some believing they are fallen angels or demons... which is ludicrous.

First of all there must be a virtually unlimited number of civilisations given the size of the universe, even in our own local sector of stars we beginning to discover new planets and we're realising that most stars have a planetery system and that after all Sol isn't as special as we previously thought it was.

For myself I believe it depends on whio we meet, they could be pacifists, they could be belligerent, they might have some stupid religious beliefs that forces them to exterminate us because we are infidels, or they might be sentient machines that destroy organic life out of spite.

It's all speculation !

I agree that before seeking contact we should be at least capable to defend our planet and our solar system. Our current level of technology leaves us as unbelievably vulnerable. Any space faring civilisation would destroy us no problem, like shooting fish in a barrel.

Our only defence are nukes and any alien ship should be able to destroy them before they even left the atmosphere. And think about it, they could just deflect massive asteroids at us and completely destroy the planet...

[edit on 17-12-2007 by DarkSide]

This guy wrote a paper discussing the alien hacker threat. I'm no expert but it sounds paranoid.


DO POTENTIAL SETI SIGNALS NEED TO BE DECONTAMINATED?
Richard A. Carrigan, Jr.
Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
Box 500 MS221
Batavia, IL 60510 USA
[email protected]

ABSTRACT

Biological contamination from space samples is a remote but accepted possibility. Signals received by searches for extraterrestrial intelligence (SETI) could also contain harmful information in the spirit of a computer virus, the so-called “SETI Hacker” hypothesis. Over the last four decades extraterrestrial intelligence searches have given little consideration to this possibility. Some argue that information in an extraterrestrial signal could not attack a terrestrial computer because the computer logic and code is idiosyncratic and constitutes an impenetrable firewall. Suggestions are given on how to probe these arguments. Measures for decontaminating extraterrestrial intelligence signals (ETI) are discussed. Modifications to the current SETI detection protocol may be appropriate. Beyond that, the potential character of ETI message content requires much broader discussion.

INTRODUCTION ....

THE NATURE OF AN ETI SIGNAL...

INFORMATION TRANSFER OVER INTERSTELLAR DISTANCES...

DENATURING A SIGNAL...


SUMMARY

...However, for an ETI signal some sort of translator is required at the receiving end. As a result, the signal needs a lure to induce the receiver to untangle the message. Such a lure would probably be quite interesting and appear reasonable in intent. This implies care should be taken in working with SETI signals.

This situation deserves serious attention from the SETI community. The possibility of a malevolent SETI Hacker signal must be assessed and protective measures should be put in place prior to the receipt of any real signals.

home.fnal.gov...

Look at what I underlined.
I'm convinced if SETI received something genuine, the NSA would snatch it up and classify it so fast your head would spin.

edit: IMO SETI is irrelevant.

[edit on 17-12-2007 by Schaden]

IMO a hostile race wouldn't attack a race that poses no threat - typically enslavement is the better option or monitor from afar - see what tech they may come up with, and take it. You could use them however you want without them even seeing you.

You could corrupt their governments and play to their egos.... sounds so sci fi but I wouldn't be surprised if this is already happening.

Then again, we are dealing with infinite possibilities.

In the end, what we think is irrelevant, and what they may impose will be the way.... should they be nasty.

That Seti Hacker scenario is brilliant. mwwwhhaaahahahahaahhaaaaaaaa

Here's one that bobs around the limited space betwixt me ears every so often.

What if distance between environments that are capable of nurturing intelligent life such as ours is natures buffer zone? It could be a blessing and a curse, protecting us from annihilation at the hands of superior races but condemning us to the fate laid out by forces way beyond our control in our little corner of the universe. Think about it, maybe countless worlds make it this far - they are capable of finding other worlds with other life and then bish bash boom they wipe each other out as regular as clockwork right throughout the Galaxy ~ weather it be war on equal terms, stripping of resources or Zog steps foot on a new world and sneezes they always wipe each other out.

But for the few lucky civilizations distance prohibits travel - at least long enough for us to get our heads round the fundamental problems - survival of the fittest should be changed to 'fit for purpose' if you ain't fit for purpose nature gets you in the end ~ all we gotta do is dodge asteroids ad hang in there long enough (a lock the nukes away for a rainy day).

Peace!

reply to post by Now_Then


That's actually a pretty interesting idea there.

Myself personally, I say why worry? At our level of technology we're pretty much screwed if someone with less than altruistic purposes came calling, so no need losing sleep over it.
Not to mention there could be other checks and balances in place that are protecting us, i.e. a benevolent species that watches our back without us knowing it.

Originally posted by jupiter869
When man set off in ships across the ocean to explore seas and lands yet undiscovered beyond the horizon, he feared death from sea monsters, giants and all sorts of terrors. But it is in man's nature to explore. Our insatiable curiosity is what sets us ahead, exploring, learning and growing.

I can't think of one exploring culture in man's past that didn't do more harm than good, at least initially. If not from germs and disease then certainly the inevitable break down of the indigenous culture or its complete subjugation for the purposes of cheap labor or enslavement. Our own Earthly experiences with exploration should give us pause, the best indictor of the future is the past.

However, there do seem to be countless other, more terrestrial issues that warrant our concern and attention. E.T. is essentially hypothetical at this point but our own world is spinning out of control.

No ET can be more dangerous then human.

Considering the first episode of "I love Lucy" has covered about 55 light years already, I'd say that these guys are about 56 years too late with their warnings - wouldn't you?

Originally posted by Enceladus

"We're talking about initiating communication with other civilisations, but we know nothing of their goals, capabilities or intent," warned John Billingham.

Enceladus, I think John Billingham is talking nuts! Like are some other scientists who mouth their theories about the dangers of contacting other ET civilizations.

Let’s take higher ETCs (Extra Terrestrial Civilizations), say Type 2 or 3 (We are not even half of Type 1 as yet! Check out my thread here on what noted scientist, Dr Michio Kaku says about ET civilization Types). They would be so advanced that their mode of communication would perhaps be totally different to ours. EM wave communication would have been passé a million years ago! We used semaphore signals to communicate before radio was discovered and the American Indians used smoke signals! How many of us now use or can read these signals? For us these are a defunct form of communication as perhaps radio is to them! So, would they ever pick up our radio signals? No. Where two-way communication is concerned, never the twain shall meet! They would be using other modes of communication which we don’t have a clue to, mastered space travel and probably visited Earth too, a number of times.

Now, would these highly evolved beings, have nothing else to do but pose a danger to a civilization such as ours? We are perhaps at the bottom of the pile. Would we like to screw up a perfectly functional ant hill and stir up trouble in the ant community? We would do nothing of the sort, but just observe and study their behavior. And oh yes! We can’t communicate with ants can we? That’s probably the equation between us and advanced civilizations.

As for ETCs similar to ours, take or leave a few thousand years, they’ll continue to blunder along as we are with radio telescopes taking a million years for an answer from the nearest Earth-like planet! And they, like us, don’t have the resources to interfere in the affairs of other planets……. Do we?

So what are these guys ringing alarm bells for?

Cheers!

Originally posted by kosmicjack

Originally posted by jupiter869
When man set off in ships across the ocean to explore seas and lands yet undiscovered beyond the horizon, he feared death from sea monsters, giants and all sorts of terrors. But it is in man's nature to explore. Our insatiable curiosity is what sets us ahead, exploring, learning and growing.

I can't think of one exploring culture in man's past that didn't do more harm than good, at least initially. If not from germs and disease then certainly the inevitable break down of the indigenous culture or its complete subjugation for the purposes of cheap labor or enslavement. Our own Earthly experiences with exploration should give us pause, the best indictor of the future is the past.

Then the lesson from this could be; sit still, stay put and be content with your way of life and you'll fall victim to the ravages of those who seek to expand their influence, no?

Originally posted by kosmicjack
However, there do seem to be countless other, more terrestrial issues that warrant our concern and attention. E.T. is essentially hypothetical at this point but our own world is spinning out of control.

Agreed, and stasis breeds complacency, inattention, and vulnerability.

If one does not move forward, on any issue, one will be left behind in the dustbin of history.

And keep in mind, the winners write the history books.

Originally posted by mikesingh

Originally posted by Enceladus

"We're talking about initiating communication with other civilisations, but we know nothing of their goals, capabilities or intent," warned John Billingham.

Enceladus, I think John Billingham is talking nuts! Like are some other scientists who mouth their theories about the dangers of contacting other ET civilizations.

Spot on , Mike!

Originally posted by mikesingh
So what are these guys ringing alarm bells for?

Personally, I think they're shills for the PTB and their coming "War On ETs."

D4rk Kn1ght's foreshadowed warnings of Project Blue Beam, anyone?

Werner Von Braun warned of us this possibility, and it's now becoming manifest.

For those of you unfamiliar with these references, google 'em, you'll be astounded at what they propose.

Do not be mislead by false warnings of the "ET Danger."

IMHO, it's hogwash!

I once read an essay - I can't remember where, or I'd post a link, or at least the title - that suggested that the primary determining factor for whether or not an extraterrestrial force would invade us would be whether or not we were edible to them!

It sounds extraordinary, but the line of thinking it suggested was simple: as we understand the universe to date, lifeless planets likely outnumber those bearing life, but this does not make them worthless. One can get raw materials and ores from asteroids, water ice from comets, hydrogen from gas giants, solar power from anywhere near a star, and so on and so forth. The essay's author suggested that, when considered in the light of the above, the only thing an inhabited planet could be said to possess that couldn't be found elsewhere was us: the delicious locals. Thus, since only the inhabitants themselves couldn't be found anywhere else - for much less effort than going to war, to boot - only a race interested in eating the locals would invade.

Certainly, concerns of slave labour might enter into it, but they're hardly as entertaining to discuss as the question of whether or not extraterrestrials might find us edible. For that matter, one other thing inhabited planets have that tends to be rare elsewhere is, well... inhabitable space. Lebensraum has been a reason for overpopulated nations to invade their neighbours throughout human history, so I suppose it might also work for aliens as well.

---

On a more serious note, someone earlier mentioned the various accounts of aircraft going down or vanishing while pursuing UFOs, as well as the common thread of experimentation amongst abductees. Personally, I've always wondered if such creatures might not realize that we're sentient to begin with. Conceivably, these could be symptoms of ignorance rather than malicious intent. Sure, we use tools, have split the atom, and fly through the air on a daily basis, but to a people that doesn't speak our language and can fly between the stars these could be no more an indication of intelligence than the ability of a chimpanzee to use a stick to dig ants out of an anthill for lunch. For that matter, some abduction reports suggest that the aliens talked to their captives, but then again, when my grandfather had a farm, he was known to talk to the cows. That doesn't necessarily mean he thought they were terribly bright.

I mean, a Cessna 172 that wanders into the wingtip vortex of a B-52 is going to get tossed around pretty badly, and maybe even crash. For that matter, I doubt lab rats really enjoy the tests we perform on them. Maybe the various vanished aircraft and the accounts of abductees are caused by events that are similar in nature. Not your usual take on the subject, I know, but it's something I've wondered about from time to time.

I really don't 'get the' 'aliens are going to kill us' thing. I mean if they have picked up our signals, and have decided to come kill us, they must be so much more advanced than us, that by the time they arrive we'd still stand no chance.

There is nothing we can do about it, yeh if we build a few space guns, we can shoot a few aliens down, but they'll be so advanced we either won't shoot any down, or they'll still kill us all.

So to any aliens reading this, hurry up please.

I doubt that any hypothetical alien civilization of a "higher" nature would need human slaves, unless some cultural bias saw the possession of slaves as a status symbol; robotics are cheaper and easier. Nor do I think carbon life forms would constitute a good source of food stores.

But the above scenario is for a stable/flourishing civilization. I could nevertheless see a wandering "swarm" that used the refined resources of other civilizations as sources. Such a "swarm", having abandoned a home system, need not be in possession of FTL, so they need not be much in advance of our own technologically.

The very advanced races mentioned in the first paragraph would likely have long since learned how to repel or avoid such predatory swarms, else they would not have survived to evolve into class 2 or better civilizations. The prey of "swarms" would naturally be those civilizations that bleated into the void an announcement of their presence using less sophisticated methods, and the "hunters" from the "swarm" would be very adapted to scanning for such evidence of immature civilizations.

Nature, at least as we know it, tends to have population controls where a certain amount of the "young" are destroyed. (If you tend not to feel overly emotional, watch the videos on seals or turtles heading for the open seas for the first time.)

We are hatchlings. It's our instinct, as well as our rightful destiny, to go to the sea of stars. But we ought be aware of the dangers the trip entails. We ought to be as cautious as we can, if we hope to join any of the type 2 civilizations, and not become prey to whatever population controls exist on a stellar basis.

I'm quite astonished that the majority of people here seem to hold quite a pessimistic view of the nature of an advanced extraterrestrial species. I like to think that a civilization which has advanced to a certain point is most likely to be peaceful.

I think it is quite clear that with the development of the human civilization has come an understanding that violence is never necessary or beneficial in any way, at least not any more beneficial than peacefulness.

Imagine for a moment discovering a planet out there with a comparatively primitive civilization, a planet harbouring life in all its variation and splendour, another planet with oceans and mountains and plants and ecosystems. Another speck in the immense universe suspended precariously against all odds in such fine balance between a thriving living planet and nothingness. I think we may put our greed, our anger our lust for physical things to which only we have placed value aside, and rather learn all that we can about such an improbably magnificent place, rather than destroy it.

I have hope that intelligence, consciousness and rationality would win the battle against ignorance, hatred and greed which would otherwise cause the destruction of such a valuable and magnificent thing. I doubt that an advanced alien species, advanced enough to traverse the stars, would neither need any resources from our planet, or feel such a lack of intrigue that they merely seek to destroy us rather than share our knowledge and baske in the splendour that is life.

I can't remeber the exact craft but a plate was attached that gave a road map to earth. I believe it was Carl Sagan that was responsible and he later regretted doing it considering the potential for hostile aliens.

My question is, why do we think that any alien civilization would have any type of interest in us other than amusement or scientific purposes? I mean we really kidding ourselves if we think we are really that special.

What drove Europeans to the new continent was NEED, something that an advanced civilazation won't have, Europeans didn't even set out to discover a new continent they just stumble upon it, so they weren't really that smart to begin with.

Any advance civilization don't have the NEED to interact with us, if they are out there they probably know we are here and they already know what we as human are all about, I don't even see them sharing a banana with us for fear that we could turn it to somethin that makes a BANG.

Just look at our own race, we war with each other over religion [beliefs] we war over race [color of our skin] we war just to control and dominate our neighbors. What is to be expected when we run into a alien race in space. Will we suddenly change our nature and what we are, I feel for any primitive culture we may find, we will most likely send missionaries and destroy their culture replacing it with our own.

What kind of alien can we expect to find, animal, mineral, vegetable, insect. Lord only knows what there intent may be, they may wish to be hostel towards us, to eat us, or to rape our planet of resources, or our whole solar system for that matter. They may wish to exterminate us based on when we become more technologically advanced we may pose a threat to them.

It's naive to think if we do run into another species that they will be benevolent, they in the end will have their own agenda, and so will we.

IMO, this is not something that warrants much time spent speculating, as the outcome of such an encounter, be it positive or negative, is weighted much more by the "other" civilizations intent. While I would postulate that such a civilization, with the technological capability to achieve interstellar travel, would not do so with the intent of destroying other civilizations they encounter, I have to remind myself at times, that when humans first began to explore this planet, we did so by conquering the peoples we encountered.

It's never ended well for indigenous beings.

double post removed.

[edit on 17-12-2007 by jupiter869]