US: thanks for destroying our world!

Originally posted by stumason
Another thing which alot of countries found annoying was the statement by the US delegation to the UN Conference, in which they basically said that the US wanted to lead and everyone else should just fall in line.

How arrogant is that?

In other words, you're saying...

"How dare the Americans say they want to lead! The nerve! How arrogant! Now then, listen up, we're leading and they should just fall in line! Do what we say!"

And isn't that UN conference in Bali great? Sure, let's cut emissions, but let's all fly to a remote part of the globe, burn all sorts of fuel and release untold amounts of greenhouse gases to talk about it. It's hypocracy.

reply to post by stumason


Britain is the first nation to have legal targest for cutting emission, (I like to point out to American members that Britain is apart of the EU)

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
No, the rest of the countries aren't willing to do anything substantive. All they are willing to do is sign useless pieces of paper that even if everyone were following it to the letter would make no significant impact on "global warming." Thd only thing it is designed to do is make you feel better about yourself, help you sleep a little easier at night when you know you aren't doing a damn thing.

German farmers, homeowners and industrialists set a world record for the development of renewable energy in 2006. Using the country's pioneering electricity feed law, Germans invested more than U.S.$10 billion in new sources of renewable energy last year, including wind turbines, solar panels and biogas power plants.

Renewable sources of energy provided a total of 71.5 TWh in 2006 or nearly 11.5% of German electricity consumption. The total includes conventional hydro-electric generation installed prior to introduction of feed laws.

For the record, Germany has over 82 million inhabitants. So don't say nothing happens. The fact that over 10 percent of the total energy production for 82 million people is generated by renewable energy is an achievement itself.

but those damn Americans won't, so we can't." If you want to do something, do it yourself, and stop looking at America as your scapegoat.

I'd suggest to re-read my OP. Our problem is America. We suffer from America's unwillingness to change its bad habits. If it wouldn't influence our lives we wouldn't care so much about America's unwillingness to change. Every single country should actively contribute to this global problem and the biggest polluters in specific. For now, it's just America that doesn't get that message.

[edit on 14-12-2007 by Mdv2]

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
In other words, you're saying...

"How dare the Americans say they want to lead! The nerve! How arrogant! Now then, listen up, we're leading and they should just fall in line! Do what we say!"

Not really. The US doesn't have a plan, but wants to be in control of any plans that come about, as long as they are in the US national interest. That is arrogant and selfish.

The rest of the world wants the US to commit to real changes. It's our planet too, yet the US won't agree to anything that "might hurt our economy"...

Get over it! Without change, your economy could well be non-existent in 100 years.

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
And isn't that UN conference in Bali great? Sure, let's cut emissions, but let's all fly to a remote part of the globe, burn all sorts of fuel and release untold amounts of greenhouse gases to talk about it. It's hypocracy.

They have to meet somewhere and unless you have some sort of CO2 neutral form of global travel, what do you suggest? Also, taking those few hundred delagates total CO2 footprint for the journey, it is tiny compared to the daily output of the planet, let alone over a longer time frame.

Me again- if all humans would stop existing, we would slow down the climate change with 2-4 %.

Twenty percent of Denmark's energy needs are now met by electricity generated by wind turbines, and the proportion is steadily increasing. Thanks to advances in technology and turbine design, the cost of wind power has been reduced by 75 percent since 1970, when the programs began.
Wind-power technology has also been a driving force in the Danish economy, according to Chuck Kleekamp, president of Clean Power Now , an American nonprofit organization that informs citizens about renewable energy projects and studies Danish energy programs.

Source

Energy research in Denmark

I would like to say that we are trying to do our part aswell here in Denmark and we will continue to do so.

Originally posted by stumason
They have to meet somewhere and unless you have some sort of CO2 neutral form of global travel, what do you suggest?

Really now? Just like we had to have this conversation face-to-face?

Ever hear of a little invention called the internet? Mr. Messianic Complex himself invented it. Or how about teleconferencing?

wow , SUV found on Mars ! read this :

www.timesonline.co.uk...

and

www.redicecreations.com...

[edit on 14-12-2007 by sty]

Originally posted by sty
wow , SUV found on Mars ! read this :

www.timesonline.co.uk...

I blame the aliens for this

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
Really now? Just like we had to have this conversation face-to-face?

Ever hear of a little invention called the internet? Mr. Messianic Complex himself invented it. Or how about teleconferencing?

I don't know how technical you are, or think you are, but a video conference with several hundred or thousand delegates is impossible.

Don't be so condescending either. I'm a telecoms engineer, so I know full well what the bloody internet is.

[edit on 14/12/07 by stumason]

Originally posted by sty
Me again- if all humans would stop existing, we would slow down the climate change with 2-4 %.

You base this on what?

Now, listen. I'm personally on the fence with regards to whether it is man made or not, but if it is, we have to do something. If it isn't, then whats the harm in cutting pollution anyway? It's better to err on the side of caution than to carry on regardless.

Sitting on our hands umming and ahhring about it won't achieve bugger all and by the time the US does do something, it may be too late.

Hate to break it to ya Saviour, but a casual skim over the posts over the last page or two of this thread suggests (with evidence) the US is seriously dragging the chain over climate change...

Sure I'm happy my PM validated Kyoto the other week, but if he doesn't commit to % decreases in emissions at Bali, any further discussions sponsored by the US in coming months are pointless...

Developed countries have to lead the way INITIALLY....There is no two ways about this....This will cost developed countries bugger all in GDP per annum...

The most important thing about taking this lead, is it will encourage developing countries to also commit to reduction of co2 levels in the next 5-10 yrs...

This is most important....

IMHO industrialised nations must take the lead role FIRST...Followed up by equally compelling cuts in co2 levels by developing nations by 2020...

No two ways about it...

It is time the US exhibited its REAL leadership on the world stage over an issue that really matters and doesn't only benefit its own people...

Peace

I agree that cutting the pollution is good idea. Also it will reduce the fossil-fuel dependency. By the way , I live in Bristol and i go to work by bike every day. Know why ? because I cannot buy a car , and because the public transport is more than ridiculous here in the UK. Be onset, how are you travelling to work? If by car, how many people are inside a car that is designed to have 5 seats?
if govs. care about climate change, why they oppress and murder people that make major re-discoveries in over-unity ?
my prediction of 2-4 % reduction in climate change speed if we eliminate all humans is based on the climate changes produced on the other planets of our solar system as well as the re-adjustment of the ice-free North Pole predictions. Also based on the quantity of frozen methane that can cause tens of times more green-house gases than we ever made. Study how much frozen methane we have in Siberia and Northern Canada, and then imagine the 2012 ice-free North Pole (during summer)
I honestly wish I am all wrong! My wife would loose her country (Netherlands) in the next 10 YEARS if I am not wrong...



[edit on 14-12-2007 by sty]

[edit on 14-12-2007 by sty]

[edit on 14-12-2007 by sty]

ps: nice signature, stumason!

America is striving to do better and has for awhile now. You're just showing the bad without any of the good. The Kyoto treaty isn't right when you have all these developing countries who will surpass America in greenhouse gas pollution in no time at the rate they're going. And there won't be any restrictions on them when they do. We recycle, we have clean air conservancy, we have pollution control angencies, the Clean Air Act, we have people too( not government) doing their part for a greener America. Trucks and buses are running on bio diesel fuels instead of regular fuels. We have laws that require your vehicle to be smog tested and equipped with smog reducing converters. We have wind farms that produce safe power for consuption. American scientist are doing their part.
Fuel Cell
Counter Rotating Ring Reciever

Pictures of China






Pictures of Japan



And India, Nice Lake



Just to say one more thing.

It's not just America. The whole world needs to change. The Kyoto Treaty is not the answer. Hopefully technology and science will help along the way, but until we conquer our dependency on oil, pollution will be around.

[edit on 12/14/2007 by Solarskye]

We need to stop those evil volcanoes. In one major eruption alone, some volcanoes emit more pollutants than every car on Earth does in one year. Please join me in finding a way to stop these evil entities we call volcanoes.

Then, we can move on to cows.

The brainwashing of the weak minded and ignorant fools who subscribe to the "evil America" theory is nothing more than political tripe. If you fall for it you get what you deserve in the long run. Problem is, if you fall for it you don't understand a thing I just posted, so just keep crying on top of your soapboxes and let life continue to go on around you.

[edit on 14-12-2007 by IgnoreTheFacts]

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
Really now? Just like we had to have this conversation face-to-face?

Ever hear of a little invention called the internet? Mr. Messianic Complex himself invented it. Or how about teleconferencing?

I don't know how technical you are, or think you are, but a video conference with several hundred or thousand delegates is impossible.

Don't be so condescending either. I'm a telecoms engineer, so I know full well what the bloody internet is.

[edit on 14/12/07 by stumason]

reply to post by Solarskye


I have yet to see a lake like that in any of my US travels, lol.

OH, you are SOOOOOOOOOOOOO welcome

There are so many things wrong with this post from premise to conclusion that I cannot even fathom where to begin. Let me just say that the US is NOT the biggest polluter, China is and India is likely to overtake the US by 2009. The Kyoto Accord is a farce wrapped in a quagmire as it likely wouldn't achieve any of it's stated goals while destroying the economic engine of my country.

Your assertion that global warming IS caused by humans is disingenuous at best and completely incorrect at worst - the jury is still completely out on this issue. However, you have elected to choose sides despite the wealth of bad science that abounds all around this issue.

I cannot continue as it is my opinion that this thread belongs in the rant forum as all this is a rant against the U.S. I fail to see the conspiracy here.

reply to post by scientist


What I know is that SOMEBODY *cough* GM *cough* killed the electric car. Some of those persons were American people, but those persons did not represent the best interests of the American people or the environment. A movie was made about it.