Dealing with 9/11 Madness (argumentum ad hominem veritas)

Can we get some mod attention on the
"No Plane Hit The World Trade Center On 9/11" thread?

It seems to digress into personal attacks and NO U arguments again along with zealots of either side repeating the same arguments over and over. Thanks.

Here's an interesting example. A "trailer" for a film called:
9/11 Truth Movement: R.I.P.
www.youtube.com...

Probably going to be nothing but ad hominem attacks, but, unfortunately, it has 3 times as many thumbs up than thumbs down and most of the comments are cheering the film maker and slandering the "twoofers".
Anti-9/11 truth sentiment still seems to be getting nastier and nastier.

Has anyone heard the theory that 9/11 was carried out under the orders of the Illuminatti? I know it sounds far fetched but at the same time, It could very well be true.

Just a suggestion. I know I am knew here. But this 9/11 debate will not stop any time soon and we should all hope it doesn't. It is basically a public driven investigation.

My suggestion for those with "official thread" abilities is to create a new official 9/11 threat where the entire purpose is to separate the theories, the conspiracies, and the myths from the facts by simply stating scientifically proved facts as such and adding them as we go along and the process continues.

Something like this:

Conspiracy theory: George Bush sneaked in the night before and cut the steal with thermite then blew it up by orders of aliens from Area 51 under the control of the NWO.

Theory: Thermite was used as part of a controlled demoltion to cut the steel of the Twin Towers and bring the buildings down(not scientifically proven yet).

Hypothesis: Can thermite be used to cut the steel and used in place of or in combination with explosives?

Fact: Thermate/Thermite has been experimentally proven capable of cutting and melting through steel vertically, horizontally and with precision. with a link to the Steven Jones video that displays his experiment proving this: www.wat.tv...

I think something like this would help channel the debate in the correct direction if everyone could understand and realize that some things can NO LONGER be debated as they have been proven while others have not. If a conversation ever crossed one of those points, from either side anyone could go to this thread pull out the fact and squash the nonsense, no matter which side they stand on.

My friend is in the beginning stages of putting together a 9/11 truth rally for this September 11th on the front lawn of the capital building. Please consider taking part in this and spreading the word!

I am sure others may be thinking the same thing. If we can all bond together, we should be able to have some kind of impact.

Gratefully,
futant mutant

my buddies video
www.youtube.com...

osama bin laden is dead, 9/11 chapter is closed

Excellent move. The personal attacks made participation increasingly unpleasant and now maybe the Truth can move forward in a positive manner and we can all begin to once again participate in the effort.

Thank you.

This deserves it's own thread, but I'm not allowed to make one, as I've made less than 20 posts. I just transcribed Alex Jones' interview with Dr. Steve Piecznek of 5/3/11, and it's the first time that I know of that anyone has come out with personal knowledge that 9/11 was an inside job. Therefore, this is truly history-making:

Alex Jones Interview with Steve Pieczenik, 5/3/11 (Abridged from transcript prepared by Tara Carreon, The Ralph Nader Librarian) www.american-buddha.com...

[Dr. Pieczenik] It is a great pleasure and an honor. I want to thank you, Alex. I want to thank what you've said. I think very much of what you said is very accurate. I will correct some of the issues that I think we've talked about. But I want to thank your audience for listening. I want to say how important Alex Jones was after 9/11 when I knew very well at that time that the American public was being deceived and was being treated as if we were fools, stupid, ignorant, and cheats. I had hoped at that time, once I was on the Alex Jones show, and I broke ranks with my people at the Council on Foreign Relations. I'm a member also of the Association of Former Intelligence Officers, the National Military Intelligence Association, and I volunteer repeatedly. I volunteer to still work with our military because no. 1, I respect our military. No. 2., we have sent men and women to wars that have not been clearly defined by civilians who have never been in war, including Clinton, including Bush, Jr. in particular, who precipitated the wars into Iraq and Afghanistan, and now Obama. And I had hoped by that time, in the past, that we would have stopped fooling the American public and stopped creating an incursion into our own country, killing our own people. 9/11 has still not been fully explained. And it is not a conspiracy theory. It has nothing to do with all kinds of secrecy and cabal and any other issue. It has to do with a famous technique in warfare that we call stand down, false flag, deception and denial. It was done during Pearl Harbor. Alex explained to you yesterday it was done by Hitler. It was done by LBJ during the war in Vietnam where we had the Gulf of Tonkin and he claimed that we had had a false flag operation, and we had to shoot the Vietnamese because they shot us. That was wrong. Many men died for that. Many men went to war. And at the same time we had a stand down and a false flag which was told to me repeatedly by the people I work with, including a very famous general that I will not repeat his name to protect him until I go to a grand jury.

Now, what I'm saying today is very important. I was a Deputy Assistant Secretary under Nixon, Ford and Carter. I resigned under Carter because I disagreed with the way he handled the hostage situation. I came back under Reagan to take down the Soviet Union. I came back under Bush, Sr., to work on Cambodia. I'm not a career foreign service. I'm not a career intelligence officer. I am what every American is: I'm a physician, but I'm an entrepreneur. I create businesses, and I believe in the American way of life, which is very simple: the hope, the faith, the dedication, and the lack of interference in my job, in my pocketbook, and in my speech, and in the ability to say what I want to say, by the government. That doesn't mean I'm a tea party member, I'm a liberal, I'm a conservative, or I belong to any party. I'm strictly an American. And I say this to you, as Americans: We have once again been deceived. I thought this would cease and desist by the time Bush, Jr. was elected and thrown out. I had asked that Bush, Jr. be indicted for war criminal. Cheney be indicted. Rumsfeld. Condoleezza Rice. Steve Hadley. It goes on and on and on.

The issue now is, we have brought to the forefront at a time when America is in deep peril economically, as Alex Jones has correctly explained to you, we are in deep peril because we are in two wars of which I have no idea why we're there. And I had warned even on the Alex Jones Show nine years ago, not we will go into Afghanistan and Iraq after the 9/11, and I predicted ... that Osama bin Laden would be dead, and had been dead for over seven months, not because Special Forces killed him, but because as a physician I had known that the CIA physicians had treated him, and it was on the intelligence roster that he had Marfan syndrome.

Now many of you can look up on the Internet Marfan syndrome. It's a disease, a genetic abnormality which Abraham Lincoln had. And it's a disease of the cataracts of the eyes, of the coronary arteries. And what happens in that disease is you have a very short lifespan. The fact that he had renal dialysis was not an issue of renal stones, which can be cured, and is not that serious or life threatening, but he needed that dialysis machine so he had to take it with him. It was not an accident that his No. 2 man, al-Zawahiri, was a physician. It is not an accident that most leaders of terrorist organizations around the world are physicians. That's why I know them, because we understand our code of ethics and creed.

Osama bin Laden died when we went into Afghanistan. General Tommy Franks had stated very clearly that he had died, and he made a slip.

Now, we knew he had already died by that time, by the time we had already gone into Afghanistan, and in Pakistan we knew he was dead. So the notion, when I came on the radio station in 2002 with Alex Jones, I said, "Listen, Osama bin Laden's dead. He's dead. There's no question about it. He had Marfan Syndrome. It had nothing to do with Special Forces. He was used in the same way that 9/11 was used to mobilize the emotions and feelings of the American people in order to go to a war that had to be justified through a narrative that Bush, Jr. created and Cheney created about the world of terrorism.

Now, I have been in that world for 30 years. During 30 years we have never been attacked in America. I repeat it again. The question is not that we are safer now. Nope. We're not safer. The issue is, we had never been attacked up till 9/11 because Bush, Jr. , Cheney, Rumsfeld, and a group of other generals who are involved, -- I know who they are and they know who I am -- decided that we had to mobilize the public in order to create a war on terrorism, which is an oxymoron. That war on terror no longer exists. We went into Iraq, our military forces, and I have to tell you, I have the greatest respect for our military men. And I'm saying this to you, the generals, the colonels, the majors and the captains, and I've been lecturing at the War College every year: ... "Beware of the orders that you receive from civilian presidents, like Bush, Clinton and Obama. Particularly Presidents who have never served in a war, and do not know what the consequences of the war are, and the number of men and women who die bravely for our country and our cause, because some civilian has to manipulate his political career at the expense of the American public and at the expense of the bodies and the blood and guts of our warriors who are so important to us.

You see, Mr. Jones, the key question America has to ask again, and why I went back on your show, is this has much greater implication just than the distortions and lies that are created by the intelligence community. And believe me, I work with the intelligence community. The question is, "Why does that have to be done repeatedly, in different administrations for the American public?" Particularly now with a President, as you said, who had the lowest ratings, whose historical background is in question. I'm not only talking about his birth certificate. Forget that! His education, how he came to power, whom he represents. And particularly in the time when Wall Street and the bankers have gotten away with the greatest crime in the history of America. Nobody was indicted. And particularly at a time when I do not understand, I who've been in war eight different times, why we are in Afghanistan and Iraq, and why men and women are dying.

So the issue becomes a little bit greater than the question of "Did the CIA or intelligence community doctor up this situation?" The answer is yes! Categorically yes! Anybody who tells you it's not is lying. This whole scenario where you see a bunch of people sitting there looking at a screen, and they look as if they're intent. That's nonsense. It's a total make-believe. We're in an American theatre of the absurd. ... There's no way they could have attacked or killed or confronted Osama bin Laden unless you believe in the resurrection of Osama bin Laden. And I don't.

So, let me break it through: you have a Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Admiral Mullen, whose father was a publicist at the William Morris Agency, who is very much concerned about how he's going to leave the military as an admiral. Alright? You have a President who is in deep, deep trouble, who has no idea of how to get us out of unemployment, and has a disparity between the very rich and the very poor, when no banker in the history of this country after stealing billions of dollars and coming back to the American public and asking us for bonuses had never been arrested for this, yet some people who have cheated on their taxes or poor people who have not been able to get jobs are put in prison or are waiting on welfare.

So we have a President, who from the day he came in ... declares war in Afghanistan. ...And who is in Afghanistan right now? We're talking about a man, Karzai, whom I knew, and I was there at the house 20 years ago in Maryland, when this delicatessen owner from Silver Springs was ordered to come back -- he was a CIA operative as I remembered him -- and was put into position where we have nothing but corruption, destruction, and basically the killing of our own people.

[Osama] died of Marfan syndrome. Bush, Jr. knew about it, the intelligence community knew about it. CIA had already sent a physician way before under the Clinton Administration to see him at the American Hospital in Dubai. He was already very sick from Marfan Syndrome. And he was already dying. So nobody had to kill him. He had al-Zawahiri, who was a physician with him, who is still a physician. I don't know where he is. But we knew he was already dead. By 9/11 it was very clear that he was dying. In Tora Bora he probably died.

Basically the President was in very deep trouble ... He had the birther issue come out. He proved, he said he was American. But now he had to prove that he was more than American. He was more American than American. He had to be aggressive. At the same time you had an admiral who had really not done very well as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and would make some serious gaffs by giving a medal of honor to Greg Mortenson, who lied going into Pakistan saying he had built schools for women and looked like a fool. You have Panetta who really caused a lot of civilian damage in the Pakistan area. And the Pakistanis were furious with him because when he came with the CIA, quite frankly, without telling you any great secret, it's already in open source intelligence, about 80% of the CIA presently is not involved in intelligence, it is involved in what is called Operation Killing, Special Ops. And that means that many of the Special Forces soldiers have been shifted over to the CIA that used to be in the old office of SOLIC, Special Operations Low Intensity Conflict, but they have a new office, and Panetta was really just killing people right and left with the drones and creating a lot of friction and a major alienation between the American generals and the Pakistani generals, the ISI.

Lastly, we have a foreign policy that didn't work under Hillary Clinton. As you know, like Condoleezza Rice, she probably booked in more miles than any other Secretary of State, and was totally incompetent. She was not able to preempt or really be able to figure out any strategic assessments or analysis of what happened in the Middle East, or predict the uprising in Syria, in Libya, Tunisia, and was really not able to hold out, and was not competent.

So you have a whole series of administrative people, both civilians and military, who are not competent. And they had to show that they could really prove some sense of competency at a time when there was a re-election. It has a real sense of political expediency.

Having said that, it was a very politically expedient factor for the President to say, "I'm going to get reelected. I've shown my firmness. I've shown I'm an American. I've shown that I can turn around the economy," which he hasn't. Secretary of State Hillary can say, "Look, we accomplished the end of a major, significant movement in the war on terrorism," which they haven't, because from a tactical and an intelligence assessment point of view, this has not changed the game whatsoever. There are no terrorists really right now in Afghanistan. The only terrorists right now are being supported by Halqa which is supported by the Pakistani Interservice Intelligence, which ... ironically is being supported by the CIA. And even Halqa has been reporting back to our intelligence operatives saying, "What in God's name is going on? We're being paid by your CIA through the ISI to kill your soldiers?" Now, if you can explain that to me, you're going to have to explain that to the American public. And that's what I meant by deception and denial that's been going on for three administrations: Clinton, Bush, and this administration. It has to stop.

So what I'm saying to you very clearly is, this is a civilian Psy Ops game that continues from presidency to presidency. We in the United States can no longer have a two party system where we have a Republican and Democrat where it really is not functioning very well. And it's costing the American public a fortune in both blood and guts and money. We've spent over $333 billion, approximately $50 million dollars for every so-called "terrorist" that was taken out of Afghanistan, which was about 2,000 terrorists. Now if you can find me 2,000 more terrorists in Pakistan, I will give you a couple more million, because they don't exist.

Now, what is the result? We're not going to go to World War III. But what's happening is another form of economic warfare has entered, and that is China, who has benefited from all that we have done, the dysfunctional behavior and the mis-assessment, and the lack of strategy and the lack of leadership, and the disasters that we have created with the drones and our CIA so-called operations where we kill civilians. We've alienated the Pakistanis who in turn have invited the Chinese to come down and work with them, both militarily and economically. And what has Karzai said publically? "I don't want the Americans here," because he already has raped and ripped us of about $3 billion dollars a week. And at the same time he has asked the Chinese to come in and invest in Afghanistan. Now that's the reality.

I really know [the entire leadership of Pakistan and Afghanistan way before the Afghan war. I was involved in the major hostage situation in Washington called the Hanafi Muslim. I was brought in by Earl Silbert when 350 hostages were taken in Washington, and I was able through 36 hours of negotiating against the orders of Carter. I actually threw out Jimmy Carter outside. So you can see I don't always acquiesce to a civilian controller president. And basically there was a very important gentleman who worked with me named Yaqub Khan. Yaqub Khan was the foreign minister of Pakistan, was our ambassador to the United States, but was the father of the Pakistani army. As a result of that, I got to know the various generals throughout his ranks, who they were. And he talked to me about El-Zia, Musharraf, Benazir Bhutto, her father, what would happen. So I intimately got to know both the military elements of this incredible army that was trained under General Yaqub Khan, and a friend of mine was also the head of the Islamic Brotherhood. Believe it or not, we went to M.I.T. together. So I knew all of these elements, and I knew they were extremely sensitive to our relationship with America, and at the time they were useful in the fight against the Soviet Union. But at the same time, I was clearly warned, very early on, that they would turn against us, and basically have a blowback, which you've talked about in the past. So using Yaqub Khan, I knew exactly where the elements were, the concerns they had about the CIA continuously supporting the Interservice Intelligence Agency, the fact that the ISI was getting out of control, was no longer under military or civilian control in Pakistan, and was beginning to form their own so-called groups that we call "terrorist groups," as a forefront to making sure that Pakistan had a ancillary army or basically an auxiliary army, or paramilitary unit that could fight against India.

And one of the things your audience has to understand: Pakistan's greatest obsession right now is not with the Taliban or Halqa. Those are the groups that they support even till today. India is their greatest obsession. And I would speak to the general and other Pakistani officials and explain to them, "Look, India is not an issue for you. India is twice the size you are. They have twice the number of nuclear warheads. You have 600,000 soldiers. At that time they [India] had 2.2 million. Kashmir is not an issue. Nevertheless, Pakistan, to this day, has felt very strongly that India is sending down operatives to the Chinese and other Soviets into Afghanistan, and are using those operatives in order to get a possession into Afghanistan. And at the same time, Pakistan feels that India is infiltrating Kashmir. So there's a whole other scenario which we have not been able to handle.

There's one more reason why Osama bin Laden came out of the bed, so to speak, the resurrection, or the psy ops resurrection of Osama bin Laden. And that is, for the first time you've heard people like Clapper, the director of the National Intelligence Organizations, and the Center for Counterterrorism, and all the intelligence organizations which amount to God knows how many now, have really worked together ineffectively. So it's a justification to say that under Obama we have really integrated our intelligence community so that we effectively can kill and are able to kill a dead man, in my opinion. Osama bin Laden was dead....

One of the reasons [Obama's doing it is] so that they basically can pull out of Pakistan. They can try and leave Afghanistan and Iraq with the sense that there was a victory. There is no victory, because there was no clear designation as to what the war was to accomplish. We have no idea what the war accomplished other than ten years of wasted bodies and brave men and women and $333 billion a year.

Secondly, we now have a very serious economic issue with unemployment still up exceedingly high, much higher than the designations. We have a banking crisis that hasn't been resolved. In three years, we've had banks after banks: Chase, Morgan Stanley, J.P. Morgan and Chase, Bank of America, all of them have committed crimes, beyond a reasonable doubt. If you look at the Banking Commission Report that's done by our own federal government, they indict them. And there's basically no attention them, and nobody has even been prosecuted, and Obama went back to them yesterday and asked them for more money. They're going to raise a billion.

We're also in a position where we're not doing very well in the international arena. We have literally lost our basic strategic superpower position. Although we have a large army, we're basically in the same position that the British military was in the 1900s, a very large army without a strategy, without a cause, and without a country. I often said to our military, "We had an army without a country," and I say to our country that, "We have a country without a military." Because right now it's costing us a fortune. We have no benefits derived from it. There are no enemies that we have other than the internal security of our country....

We have further problems. We have the notion that a system is not working. And that's what I keep coming back to, since I said 10 years ago when we had Bush, Jr., and now we have Obama, we elect people who are basically panderers without any history of accomplishment, without any history of success other than the fact that they pander their way and agree to acquiesce to anybody who is giving them money or power, and represent other interests.

[Regarding my career,] very quickly, I went to Harvard and M.I.T. at the same time, not because I was so smart but because Harvard wasn't as good as I thought it was. I got a psychiatric degree at Harvard and a Ph.D. in International Affairs under Lucien Pye.

I was trained in psychological warfare, propaganda, counter-intelligence, counter-terrorism. I went right into the State Department working for Lawrence Eagleburger and became the head of the Office of Combat Terrorism. I created that. I worked against Arafat as a terrorist, and then years later I worked with Arafat as a statesman....

I then went on to remain in the Carter administration where I was involved in the regime change of Aldo Moro. I neutralized the Red Brigade, the P-2 scandal. I indicted Berlusconi then. I'm sorry he ever came back. I left under Carter. I resigned and refused to go to Iran because I had Ramsey Clark there and I thought it would be a disaster.

I went on then to create businesses. My real love, and this country's great love, why I feel I'm a very strong American, is that I'm an entrepreneur. I am what we call an angel investor. I use my own money to create businesses and start them up and build them ... like radio frequency identification, the Tom Clancy franchises, the TV shows, even radio shows. And now I'm doing neutraceuticals, and I'm doing orphan drugs.

I was promoted to colonel at a very early age of 32. I refused promotion to brigadier general at 37 because I felt not that I want to be in the army, but I felt I could serve my country best by going back out into public service and into private service, and then offer my services for free, make my money outside on my own, and then come back and serve my country to the military and other organizations, and be able to go overseas for our country, and offer strategic advice....

I came back under Reagan and worked on the Soviet Union. I was up at the Rand Corporation for a year under a man called Richard Solomon, who brought me in to develop the Soviet takedown, the psychological operation we were involved in....I then came back under Bush, Sr. and I was involved in bringing the peace treaty under James Baker, to bring the regime change under Pol Pot without using any wars, without using any soldiers.

My point is, most of the things that I've done, and I've done a lot in the Middle East against Habash, Halakme [?], even in the Gaza strip where I worked with the PLO, against the PLO, and where ironically, and this will be a soft spot for the Israelis, in '88 I was sent out by Schultz to find out what was going on with the PLO, and I found out that the Shinbed of Israel in 1988 was creating a group called Hamas, which was used as a counterforce to the PLO. And of course, eventually everybody learned that Hamas had a blowback, and now the Israelis have created their own Frankenstein. The point being that we are not the only country in the world to create our own Frankensteins through al Qaeda, which was really the Mujahideen before. I was involved with that under the Carter administration, subsequently in other administrations....

[I saw Osama bin Laden] in Afghanistan very briefly, but I was more involved with other operational concerns, particularly the Pakistanis. I didn't know him very well. Basically I knew he was sick at the time. I knew he had renal disease. And I knew he had Marfan, because you could see that. But basically the guys who were CIA operatives said he had a supportive role there and he was financing most of the elements there. My interest was really more strategic. From my point of view, he was not the keystone of the operations there. That really was a CIA operation....

Do not believe any politicians who come to you and tell you they believe in something, whether Republicans or Democrats. They are all full of B.S. Because all they care about is their own narcissism, their own desire for power. Very few people are really interested in serving the government and then they would leave without pay. I really have never found any of these people except in my case I found Bush, Sr., I found Baker who really didn't need money, even Vance on both sides.

You know why [Bush, Sr.] became CIA director? Even Jeb Bush didn't know it. He became CIA director because Donald Rumsfeld wanted to neutralize him from running for the presidency. And for 20 years, most people don't realize, neither Cheney nor Rumsfeld were allowed in the White House because they tried to neutralize the future of this quiet man who never, never promoted himself....

That was one of the reasons why I got on the phone when I was in Montana and I told Baker ... "What in God's name are you doing sending out the Chairman of the Republican party" who was, whatever, very bizarre and unusual in his orientation in talking about abortion, and I said, "Get rid of these guys. And what are you doing with Cheney and Rumsfeld?" I mean, these guys were persona non grata for 20 years in our administration.

So basically, the American public has to understand that even under Bush, Jr. we had basically a quiet civil war that was going on between his father's people, who are non-ideological, and those who try to implement ideology in their own narcissism. What we have now is a very narcissistic, incompetent President with a very dysfunctional White House and a dysfunctional intelligence community.

On the other hand, let me warn you, that the Republicans and other parties have no candidates that are capable of filling the role that America needs today, which is a pragmatic, non-narcissistic, non-jingoistic practical man or woman who has served our country, on behalf of our country, hopefully in the military, hopefully in business, and hopefully has had a clean history and can understand where we're going strategically and tactically. That has not happened in the past 24 years. That's basically where we are today...

[Alex]Why did you go public in 2002 with something at the time that sounded a little bit wild to some people?

[Steve] Everybody who has accused me of making wild statements regretted it ten years later. Aldo Moro did. Pol Pot did. Noriega. All regretted the fact when I said to them, "You're leaving, and you're not staying," they were gone. The reason I came forth and I said, "I warned Bush Jr. and Cheney and Rumsfeld, 'You will pay for the crimes you've committed against the American public, and part of that is this nonsense of Osama bin Laden being the leader of some nonsensical group that we created under the Carter administration, was fostered through tens of years, and going into Pakistan through the nonsensical war that didn't exist, to allow men and women to die.

[Alex] Are you bottom line saying they ran the attacks or they hired some criminal group to do it?

[Steve] No, no, no. They ran the attacks. The 9/11 is a total manufacture of one organization: the White House under Bush, Jr. Bush Jr., Cheney, Rumsfeld, Hadley, Condoleezza Rice, Zalmay Khalilzad, Elliot Abrams, the CFR. I'm happy to confront them.

The event of 9/11 was carried out for one purpose: It was carried out to mobilize the American public to go to a war that they didn't need to go to, that they knew nothing about, where we had pre-positioned soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq six to nine months beforehand. And what it was done, it was based on Paul Wolfowitz's, Richard Cheney, Bush, Jr., Steve Hadley, Elliot Abrams in the White House, Ahmed Khalilzad, Dennis Ross who is now still an envoy who has never been held accountable, you have Condoleezza Rice, we have all the people who were in the military, particularly the Air Force generals who were involved. They can deny it as much they want, but I have the whole list of names. They know who they are. And the intel, the CIA operatives who worked under SOLIC, Special Operations Low Intensity Conflict, were all involved in what's called a stand down, a false flag operation in order to mobilize the American public under false pretense that we were attacked by al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden, which was an absolute, unmitigated lie. It was told to me even by the general on the staff of Wolfowitz. I will go in front of a federal committee and swear on perjury who the name was of the individual so that we can break it open.

I was furious. I knew it had happened. I taught stand down and false flag operations at the National War College. I've taught it with all my operatives, so I knew exactly what was done to the American public. Believe it or not, I had worked on George Bush, Jr.'s campaign with Bob Zelleck. Not with the Vulcans, but with Bob Zelleck in order to work against Gore, which I regret today because I had been loyal to his father. And that issue of Osama bin Laden who had already been dead really brought up the issue of the Great Lie, and the Great War that was created for us to make sure that we had some type of commitment to a war that was not necessary, where blood and guts were shed for unnecessary reasons...

[Alex] I've got to stop you because this is so dangerous. I believe this is the first time you've gone this far.

[Dr. Pieczenik] No, I don't think so. [Laughs] The people who I mentioned understand that we all have a mutual, let's say mutual deterrent relationship. It's not going to be to their benefit.

I will [release the general's name who told me] in the federal court so that we can unravel this legally. Not with this stupid 9/11 Commission that was absurd. That was the most absurd thing I had heard....

When I went on your show and I told you Osama bin Laden was dead in 2002, I wasn't hypothesizing. I knew it because he had Marfan syndrome. I knew the CIA had investigated, had treated him in a Dubai Hospital, an American hospital. They can deny anything they want. That's all they do. They run around creating problems ...

This Osama bin Laden issue, again, keystones the issue about an incompetent, dysfunctional administration that is lying once again to the American public. We can't continue this. This is why I went on your show. I don't care whether Obama is desperate or he's incompetent or he's narcissistic. I care that he does not get reelected. I care that the Republicans don't get reelected. I care that the American people stand up once again and say, "We've had enough of this bull#, with all of these politicians on the Republican and Democratic side, the capital cronyism, the entire incompetency, the transnational corporations." And believe me, I don't come from the left or the right. You don't serve Nixon, Reagan and Bush and come out with these comments. I'm not losing friends and I'm not making friends. I don't really care about those things. I do care, as an American, don't mess with me. You can imagine the real word I wanted to use. Don't mess with me and don't mess with any of my people in America. That's it. And the politicians think they can mess with me....

And then under Bush, Jr. we have a major crisis in the banking system. He doesn't know what to do. He brings in Paulsen who had no idea what he was doing, because I was a banker, by the way. One of my positions was as managing director of investment bank, taking it down for six months, and I left Wall Street it was so disgusting. And I knew Paulsen had no idea. And when I talked to the congressmen I said, "Listen, guys, you don't have a banker there. They have no idea what they're doing." Lo and behold that whole thing unfolded, and now we have such a crippled banking system.

You know it's time again that I say we have our own Tahrir Square. The young kids of Egypt went forth and did what they did. America needs a second revolution. That second revolution has to entail the peaceful means by which we can get rid of this type of capital cronyism, corruption, and criminal activity. Again, we were born of a revolution, a real revolution. We fought England twice, not once but twice. And we need to now understand that our government no longer serves the people, for the people, by the people. And that's why I came back on your show...

Thank you for allowing me to address your incredible public. This is enough, and that's all I want to say.

I just sent the following email to StevePieczenik.com

I transcribed your interview with Alex Jones, and studied your bio. I read the previous interview with Alex in 2002. On its own, the 2011 interview has a lot of force. You are a terrorism expert. You've worked with and against terrorists. You "tracked down terrrorists." You worked with Osama bin Laden. Your friend was head of the Muslim Brotherhood. You're connected with the big, big, bastards. You have the Voice of the DIA: Super Dad Military Protecting the United States of America. So what that you would claim freedoms for yourself and fellow Americans that you would deny to other people all over the world? That's the way Daddy is: tough and uncompromising, destroying his enemies, taking down country after country after country, making his enemies commit suicide, forcing them to join the OSS. Forget all that. And forget that you're a psychological warfare expert, and we wonder what kind of number you're doing on us. I can read behind the lines. I know the big picture. It's really Daddy United States of America against Daddy Nazi Infiltration from Germany. The 18th Century European Enlightement vs. the Ancien Regime. Individual Rights vs. State Rights. Thomas Paine vs. Hegel. You're on "our" side, even if that side is super right-wing. You don't want to change the Constitution "to such a degree that we have posse comitatus."

But taken together with the previous interview of 2002, it doesn't look so good. Previously you talked about using psy ops operations "all over the world, because of the 68 countries filled with al Qaeda membership, including our own country," and regarding the propaganda given to the American people, "this time around, Alex, we don't have the flexibility, because we are in what we would call a constant struggle or war against the El-Jihad and the Muslims, Islamic fundamentalists, who are more than happy to destroy much of what he have," and "the neocons are forcing us to get into wars with people who have weapons of mass destruction."

I understand a general told you it was a stand down, false flag operation, and I knew that was the case the second it happened, but is that enough to make you now say, "the so-called 'al-qaeda,'" and "this war against terrorism is a total farce," ad Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc. "created a war on terrorism," and "this war on terror no longer exists," and "there are no terrorists really right now in Afghanistan; the only terrorists right now are being supported by Halqa which is supported by Pakistani Intelligence which ... ironically is being supported by the CIA," and "$50 million dollars for every so-called 'terrorist,'" and "2,000 more terrorists in Pakistan ... don't exist," and "there are no enemies that we have other than the internal security of our country"?

You helped promote "The Big Lie," yes, with many reservations -- good for you -- but I want to hear your confession.

Oh, and that brings me to Talleyrand. What exactly was it about him that you so admired? And will you do your own deathbed conversion to Catholicism in a very "Opus Dei" type fashion, like Luis Bunuel?

Steve Pieczenik wrote:

Now, I have been in that world for 30 years. During 30 years we have never been attacked in America. I repeat it again. The question is not that we are safer now. Nope. We're not safer. The issue is, we had never been attacked up till 9/11 because Bush, Jr. , Cheney, Rumsfeld, and a group of other generals who are involved -- I know who they are and they know who I am -- decided that we had to mobilize the public in order to create a war on terrorism, which is an oxymoron. That war on terror no longer exists. We went into Iraq, our military forces, and I have to tell you, I have the greatest respect for our military men. And I'm saying this to you, the generals, the colonels, the majors and the captains, and I've been lecturing at the War College every year: "Be careful of the orders you receive from civilian presidents." I say it again, and listen to me: "Beware of the orders that you receive from civilian presidents, like Bush, Clinton and Obama. Particularly Presidents who have never served in a war, and do not know what the consequences of the war are, and the number of men and women who die, die bravely for our country and our cause, because some civilian has to manipulate his political career at the expense of the American public and at the expense of the bodies and the blood and guts of our warriors who are so important to us.

***

Now, I'm not degrading anybody. I've treated politicians, and I've worked with them. But basically, the notion of a politician servicing the United States of America's needs, is absurd. We don't need these people anymore and if we think we do, then we're mistaken because we're going to keep going on from administration to administration, from lie to lie, and from incompetence to incompetence. All of these people are reshuffled again. You have Panetta who was in the Clinton administration, was not a great performer, now coming in from the CIA where he was dysfunctional, to now heading up the Secretary of Defense.

And then Alex, being the [blank] he is, or perhaps not as much as he pretends to be, like my mother-in-law used to say, "Yeah, [blank] -- [blankety] like a fox!" cuts him off. Here he is, the very guy who will bring us the MILITARY COUP OF 2012. www.american-buddha.com... THE ENVOY, giving the first message from the Military to the People to support them when they do their takeover thing, and this little [blank] Alex Jones shuts him up. You wonder if there's someone in his studio cuing him. He can't be [blank] enough to figure this [blank] out by himself. He's entirely too careless with information. He garbles everything up. If he was a painter, everything would be one color: grey. There's only ONE category for Alex, it's what he says, and everyone's statements corroborate it. If he really cared about the truth, and about helping The People, he'd more accurate. Because he's constantly interfering at key moments, creating static in the record when you most want it to be clear. LIke one of those guys who comes in when the documents are being released because of some unusually successful FOIA request -- I've done them and it's just one government office after the next writing back and saying "[Blank] you, [Blank] you, [Blank] you" -- and puts dots and lines all over the papers so you can't scan them and get the information to the people.

Steve Pieczenik is right. There's no other way to get the peaceful revolution we need to start over with new people. It's time to have a have a military coup. What is there left to preserve in our government? They are ALL traitors. And we all know it. They WILL get our support, and they know it. Things are THAT bad. Time for the people who are against this coup to scramble.



P.S. Can I please request some administrator to make a new thread of this material, starting with my first post here, called "THE BETRAYAL OF AMERICA"?

9/11 was an inside job created to serve the agenda of the Illuminati.

They need to create a enemy called "Terrorists" so that they have their excuses for initiating wars on foreign soil.

They created many false flags so that they can tighten security by implementing security protocols, compromising the liberties of the citizens.

The Illuminati enjoy generating FEAR to control the populace.

Originally posted by SlightlyAbovePar
reply to post by SimiusDei

 

Not a bad change; not at all. I have been thinking and trying to figure out what it is about 9-11 that generates such profound hostility between both sides?
.

Well for the ppl who want the system to be right, they have a lot invested in the current paradigm.

If all they have worked for and done for most of their life turns out to be a lie
for a bunch of greedy globalists who would murder to make money or worse
then that is TOTALLY unacceptable as a concept for a lot of ppl.

Can't say I blame them.

The phrase "don't kill the messenger" came along because bad messages are often
taken poorly by those hearing them.

The fact this has carried forward for centuries is evidence of this issue.

They may have millions of dollars in "the system".

So they have "bought in" so to speak, they may support the guidestones agenda,
or they are just paid to blog for the government as has come out that 100's are paid
to blog positively for the government, may just be doing their jobs.
What is weird is that even a large portion of the 9-11 investigation committee said
there was some kind of cover up.

Sibel Edmonds fired because she was a whistle blower ???

John P. O'neill dying in the towers and was the former top anti terrorism
expert from the FBI who was in yemen and booted out by bush crony
barbara bodine ??? Then setup to lose his job at the FBI, then quickly
offered a job in the towers and dies on 9-11??? Co-wink-a-dink ???

Ppl like bill cooper and AJ said this would happen and it did.

Bill Cooper went deeper into the mystery religion and they killed him.

Govt clowns said there was no molten metal, but firefighters at the scene
said there was, the firefighters were there and they risked their lives
going in the bldgs and multiple of them say it I take their word for it,
not some empty suit from DC that wasn't even there.

Video tape from bldgs around the pentagon can't be released for the
public to see, just like the OKC bombing.

I could keep going, but 9-11 is just one of the many wounds that the US
has suffered such as the intentional financial collapse of the country.

Its just a symptom of the looting.

The last act of a failed regime is to loot the treasury on the way out the door.

Its not personal, its business, just like the mob used to say.

The mob got tired of fighting the government, and became the government,
gangster government indeed.

The wall street pirate testimony of them knowingly ripping off pension funds
and bankrupting countries like iceland speaks clearly to this mindset.

Freezers full of cash ??? cold hard cash indeed...

Congressional apts used for gay whore houses ???

Its high comedy at this point.

What is TRULY funny is the sheeple just plug back into MSM and suck
down a brain eating ecoli poop diet drink and woof down some RBGH
cheese pizza and wonder why the nations health is in super decline.

We can have some viruses spliced into our plants even thou the lab tests
show they cause organ failure.

Why did they build that doomsday seed vault in the arctic again ???

Again, thinning the herd is common practice among ranchers, and
for some of these ppl they just look at 90% of us as sheep.

So for years I have offered my warnings, civil war 2 is coming, hiding WELL
is your best option, the cities will not be safe.

Good Luck to you all !!!

reply to post by Majic


don't feed the trolls

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Unfortunately, many of those who choose to debate the issues surrounding 9/11 conspiracy theories on ATS remain unswayed by our simple rules of civility and decorum and continually seek to skirt the intent of This Thread. Therefore, we are faced with one of two choices... close the forum, or get more strict. In the interest of promoting the civilized debate and discussion of important issues, we're getting more strict.

Ad Hominem

For the most part, the new level of discourteous activity is focused on an amazing amount of ad hominen personality attacks directed toward ATS Members, high-profile 9/11 "Truth" personalities, high-profile 9/11 "Debunker" personalities, and even non-public figures those who have been in the mainstream news as reported witnesses the events on 9/11/2001. This type of activity in the 9/11 Forum on AboveTopSecret.com stops now.

New 9/11 Forum Warning

Beginning at the time of this announcement, if your post contains a personality attack against anyone, no matter if your target is an ATS member or not, within the 9/11 Forum, it will be removed and replaced with this graphic:

You will also receive a warning and points penalty.

IMPORTANT!
If a second infraction is encountered, even if we're applying the warns within seconds of each other and you have not seen the first warning yet, your posting privileges will be removed.

Truthers, Debunkers, CT's, and Skeptics Oh My!

In all my years being involve in various online communities, boards, and forums, as well as conspiracy theorists, I've never experienced the level of vicious personality attacks that I'm currently seeing within the spectrum of debate and discussion defined by "9/11 conspiracy theories and Truth Movement."

We hear over and over again from those in the "truth movement" that there is nothing more important than exposing the "inside job." To you I say, then there is nothing more important than expressing your points with civility and credibility. For both sides of the argument, if you're unable to communicate these issues in a deserving manner, then you are not concerned about the issues at all, you're simply entertaining yourself through insults and you're not welcome here.

We Can't Discuss The Credibility Of Participants?

If you feel compelled to discredit those who espouse 9/11 conspiracies, promote 9/11 activism, engage in 9/11 conspiracy debunking, or tell their first-hand 9/11 stories, then do so with facts and reasoned analysis. Simply stating they're a member of a "sect," a popular debunking site, or any other simplistic "guilt by association" statement will result in a "9/11 Madness" warning.

To be clear, "public figures" such as politicians and policy-makers with a connection to these issues/events are not considered to fall under these new guidelines. Their pre-existing public exposure places them in a position to anticipate scrutiny.

Is It Fair That We Single Out One Forum?

No. Certainly not. But then it's not fair that a limited number of people choose to ignore our long-standing policies of civility and decorum. We choose these policies long ago to enable the important topics to rise up from the typical pointless bickering seen on nearly all other discussion venues. These topics are important, insults are not. The concept is simple.

Yes, this issue happens in other forums on ATS... but with no where near the frequency and intensity seen in the 9/11 forum.

Today, the 9/11 Madness ends on AboveTopSecret.com.

 

Edit to clarify that these guidelines only extend to non-public people who are not ATS members.

[edit on 14-12-2007 by SkepticOverlord]

It is true that personal attacks serve no useful purpose in a civilized debate, and it is also true that such responses are inevitable when discussing such a emotional subject. What it boils down to , to me anyway, is that the guilty are behind the attacks on the truth movement.

It is glaringly obvious that a certain percentage of the human population are quite aware of our shadowy overlords and their self serving deceptions, and that there is an opposing force working to discredit them.
I am all for banning those who attempt to derail this important subject with endless and pointless sparring.

It saddens me to see the truth concealed because I know at the root of all evil is deception. The word 'truth' defines the agenda of those few of us who recognize the urgency in the words "when good men do nothing, evil prevails".The fact is that evil has totally overtaken the path the human race is on , and it is stampeding us all over a cliff.

Never mind the facts, the facts plainly outline a conspiracy involving the corrupt politicians and a corrupted political system that is bought and paid for by the military industrial complex, the oil industry and international bankers . their ultimate goals are to completely control and depopulate the globe, a plan that includes the deaths of 6 billion people.

Out of a chaos they intentionally create, the elite intend to rise like the phoenix from the ashes of our memories.