If a pole shift occurs?

A continuing event would create a lot of problems if the system remained energised for sure but under those conditions I guess the only way a system could be kept energised is by overiding the protection which would become a very political decision if faced with an extended loss of power to preserve the assets. Smaller distribution transformers dont have any protection other than fuses so they'd be the most likely casualties (again if the power can be kept on).

reply to post by Pilgrum


Yes, it most definitely would be a political decision, that is a concern. Millions can be lost in only a few minutes of blackout, GIC protection is available and is apparently very expensive, leaving most to prefer alternative precautionary procedures.
The papers I linked are concerned mainly with the U.S, as it is a unique system and most vulnerable to this sort of thing. It does also state that in a worst case scenario the government would in a state of emergency be able to reduce the year long scenario to a few weeks. I didn't read that at first. (I would like to believe that) Although satellite systems may still take years to replace. Even a few weeks would constitute a major disaster if water supplies, fuel, heating, communications, access to transport, medical supplies/ treatments etc.. came to a halt.
The papers are very interesting, it also looks at the effects on other systems and the detrimental human effects as well.




[edit on 3-12-2007 by squiz]

I can tell you that all aviation sectional charts would have to be redone. Compasses would be screwed.

reply to post by Pilgrum


The earths axis of rotation flipping in an instant is not going to happen, the amount of energy required to tip the axis, would be planet ending. It would be a collision on the scale of the one that formed the moon, the reason our axis is tilted and processes.

Now a polarity reversal in the earths magnetic field is a fairly common thing, geologicaly speaking, it happens with reasonable regularity.

There is a new theory, that acurately predicts and cause and effects of magnetic feild polarity shift.

Follow along closely, the earths core is not one structure but two.
The outer core is an alloy of iron/nickel/silicon in a fluid state. It has a rotation anc convective currents that are driven by the heat from the inner core.
The inner core is not iron but is actually uranium. The heat of decay from the uranium keeps the outer core molten and circulating in an opposite direction as itself.

The uranuim core is an excellent solution to the fact that there is not enough "tidal" energy being put into the earth from the moon or any other celestial object to keep the core molten.

As the planets formed the heavier elements setttled farther into the gravity well, uranium is the heaviest naturally occurring element, it settled to the bottom of each individual gravity well of the inner planets.

Mars being farther out had less uranium to collect at its core, thusly it cooled and its core solidified and stopped rotating. Consequently it has almost no magnetic field.

Earth and venus collect copius ammounts of uranuim and it settled into the cores and keeps them hot. Earth and venus still have volcanoes mars does not.

Now we are talking about magneto-hydro dynamics, or how molten metal moving generate electrical fields.
As the inner and outer core rotate in opposite directions they generate electrical fields, as the outer convects it generates electrical fields, and electrical fields create magnetic fields, and you have our magnetic field.

Now, uranuim has an affinity for silicon, and at high temperatures if forms a compound called uranium silicide. The uranium silicide forms a shell at the boundry of the of the inner and outer cores. It doesnt form it uniformly but kind haphazzardly, in varying thicknesses. It is also a wonderful insulator of heat and is non-magnetic.

So as this "shell" builds around the inner core it insulates the heat from the inner core away from the outer core. With out heat to drive the convection currents and keep the outer core rotating if will slowly come to a stop. Once it stops the, electrical fields die and so does the magnetic field.
This isulative layer of uranium silicide is also non-magnetic, so as it builds in thickness it interupts the formation of magnetic fields.

So basicly in review, what youve got is a 5 mile dia. ball of uranium taht is cooking away. It keeps the iron/nickel/silicon outer core molten and rotating. This circulation of molten metal generates electrical fields, these electrical fields give rise to the magnetic fields that protect our planet.
Over time uranium silicide builds up in the boudry layer, as a solid, in an un-even distribution. as this shell build in thickness it insulates heat from the inner core reaching the outer core, there by weaking the electrical fields and thusly the magnetic field.
As the shell builds around the inner core 2 things happen, 1) the outer core slowly comes to a stop, the point of minimum electrical fields and magnetic fields. At the same time inside the shell the teperature and pressure rise, because of the insulation effect of the shell. When the temp and pressure reach high enough levels the uranium silicide sublimates back into its constitent elements., and the outer core starts rotating again
, IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION. Re-establishing the electrical fields and magnetic fields, in a reversed state of polarity.
For a period of time the polarity will not be stable nor will its orientation, the magnetic poles will flip wildy and there will be mutiple N/S pole pairs, some times over the course of days or weeks.
The whole event takes place on the scale of centuries.
When the theory is modeled it matches very closely with actual observational data.
We are in the midst of polarity reversal right now, its not going to happen tomorrow or the day after, but it will happen. There are places around the globe where the polarity has already shifted or the field is unstable, and flipps temporarily.

As far as life goes I dont think anything that doesnt know that it is happening will know that it is happening, other than some oddly placed atmospheric displays. It has happend many times in the past and here we are.
Now that is not to sasy there wouldnt be some sort of siesmic event related to the dissolution of the uranium silicide shell.
I would tend to think that with the release of so much built up energy that there would be tremendous earth quakes, and vulcanism around the globe.
At the point of weak and unstable or no magnetic field that there should be some sort of electronic disturbance.

Originally posted by jpm1602
You couldn't most of them would be dead for starters, then it would be cave and spear time.

Doubt that very much.

If it did happen, yes millions would starve to death etc..

But the survivors would still have the advantage of modern education.

They would start rebuilding & modifying electronics to work in the new environment. Human Sociaty would be back into gear withing a few dozen yeas, mabe less.

Think about it. We didn't have electronics or vehicles or aircraft, etc in the 1800's & the earths population was still very small.

Yet in 150 years we came from nothing to what we have now.

We would never revert, just rebuild..

On the other hand, if the magnetic fiels goes away completely, then we are all screwed...lol

That would mean virtually instand death for every living thing on the planet, from massive radiation doses & the earth would look just like the other lifeless planets in our system.

Grab your parkas and box of matches. Take to your inner mammal instincts attributed to your human vessle to figure out what to do. Be creative. Be reasonable.

reply to post by punkinworks

Excellent post - star for that one
We need to just keep putting out the more moderate view of it all.

For most the suggestion of a pole reversal brings up images of major catastrophe with whole populations wiped out but the real event is far more subtle than that. It has happened during human existence and we're still here after all.

There will definitely be some problems & hardship but that's where humans excel, finding ways to solve problems.

FYI:

There are 2 types of pole shifts:

1. magnetic pole shift
2. geologic pole shift

In a magnetic pole shift there is not much to worry about.

In a gelogic pole shift there is a lot to worry about. With it the entire planet shifts. It doesn't necesarily shift 180 degrees from its current rotational axis but it could shift several degrees off its current axis.

As to what will happen; consider the following:

1. The earth is not a perfect sphere. It bows out at the equator a shift of just a few degrees will cause the equatorial position to change. This will cause the existing bowed out area to receed and the position of the new equatorial position to bow out.

2. The shift of a few degrees will cause massive water displacement

3. Entire continents or portions of continents will submerge; others will rise.

4. Billions of people, animals and plant life will die.

There are many ancient texts that speak about this:

1. Mayan/Incan/Aztec/Sumerian/Akkadian/Hopi/Etc - they speak of the cycle where our solar system passes through what some of them call the "dark rift"; in modern teminology it is called the galactic plane. When this happens mountains fall, oceans are displaced, etc

2. The remnants of literally hundreds of "sunken" cities scattered around the globe.

3. The remants of literally hundreds of cities high atop mountains.

4. Current research concerning our part of the galaxy approaching the galactic plane. We are already seeing the effects of this massive gravitational field (i.e. global warming, the sun/moon seeming to be off their normal transits, etc) as we are entering it now. We will reach its center-most point sometime around 2011 or 2012.

5. It is where the legend of Mu/Lemuria/Atlantis came from. It is far older than Plato. He was merely recounting an already ancient memory handed down generation to generation.

A gravitational field that strong would certainly have the energy necessary to make the planets (gods) move out of their appointed orbits as Sitchin would say.

The good news is that there will be survivors. It has happened in the past. If you know where to be you will survive. If you don't.... oh well nice knowing ya.

Now, accordingly consider this:

1. Most our civillzation's means of industry will be destroyed.
2. Many universities are located near coastal areas.
3. We can expect tsunami up to 2000 to 3000 feet during the displacement of land mass caused by a geologic pole shift.

with all of our industry crippled and most of the keepers of knowledge dead there will be very few people who will "know" how to make things. Our technology will survive for a little while as we cobble things together to repair them. But eventually we will lose that stuff. Most people who survive will be more concerned with surviving and not with teaching their young about quantum mechanics, or how to smelt ore, or how to mine ore. They will be just trying to eat. They may tell stories of some of the science and knowledge in an attempt to pass that knowledge on. A doctor may still attempt to do heart surgery or even brain surgery with primitive tools. he may even successfully pass that knowledge on to those he teaches it too.

And many generations later when our great-great-great-great-great-grandchildren are told stories of the "time before", when there were flying machines, and cars - it will be legend, a myth. And the scientists who passed on what little scientific knowledge they could, would find if they could see their knowledge passed on through the conduit of time, how it became mangled and lost; turned into religon and empty symbols whose real meanings were lost in time.

-Euclid



[edit on 4-12-2007 by euclid]

[edit on 4-12-2007 by euclid]

[edit on 4-12-2007 by euclid]

[edit on 4-12-2007 by euclid]

The Earth has already begun the change it has been for a few hundred years. That is why North on a compass is not True North. The degrees to where compass north is constantly changing ever so slowly. It is to do with the outer core stop flowing and reversing. The TV show i was watching said that there would be very high cancer rates etc. The physical location of the poles does not change they just swap.

Originally posted by donotdoit
The Earth has already begun the change it has been for a few hundred years. That is why North on a compass is not True North. The degrees to where compass north is constantly changing ever so slowly. It is to do with the outer core stop flowing and reversing. The TV show i was watching said that there would be very high cancer rates etc. The physical location of the poles does not change they just swap.

You are indeed correct but that is just a magnetic pole shift..... that's a horse of a different color than what I am concerned with.

-Euclid

From what I understand the poles do more than just flip, I have heard there can be more than 2 poles at one time sorry I have no link.

[unrelated to multiple poles]How to survive 2012 parts 1-3:

In my opinion:

A poleshift in the sence that the magnetic northpole becomes a southpole and the southpole becomes a northpole cannot happen.

The poleshift will be more of a "tilt" where the magnetic poles circle the geographical north and southpoles, around the vertical center axis of earth.

All I know is, in dec. 2012, during the poleshift, I will be in a mountain range, at atleast 3000 meter altitude. Expect tidal-waves of atleast 2000 meter high.
Put all the electronic devices you may depend on(nightvision goggles, cb radios, flashlights etc.) in steel/iron boxes, connected to the earth. That way, they should be protected against EMP and other electromagnetic radiation.
Get some portabele(foldable) solar panels, rechargeable batteries(all different sizes to match your equipment), car batteries.
Get a solar water distillator. It really works, put in dirty water and get pure distilled water through solar power. Google "Solaqua". It's a company that makes solar stills.
Get your supply of canned emergency foods. Get a hunting weapon(bow, crossbow, gun), and off course knives. Store materials that come in handy: tape, tie-rips, plastic tarps, nails, rope,glue, blankets, clothing, candles, medication etc.
Get your (relatively)safeplace ready well before 2012, and practice survival skills.
The hardest thing: be prepared to walk out on your family and friends, who don't, and can't believe you that something big is going to happen. It will be hard, but if I can't convince any of them, I'll be leaving alone, cause I want to live to see what happens after 2012.
Think of this what you will, I have no proof it will happen, but I'm following my intuition. The crazy things I've learned the last few years about the world, make more sense to me, than the stories we all have been fed with, by the powers that be, all our lives.

[edit on 4-12-2007 by enigmania]

reply to post by enigmania


why and how would you carry all that stuff I would be focused on Food and shelter, everything else you can live without but you have to have water food and shelter..

I am also guessing that you are not planning on traveling by foot but I would keep that in mind as it would take one hell of a large Iron box to put a car or truck in.. I wouldn't become an alarmist either by shunning family or friends I would just keep it to myself and when the time comes get to them as quickly as possible..

Anyway the packing list and survival stuff really belongs in the survival forum but thought I would throw in my 2 cents worth any how..


Respectfully
GEO

reply to post by LDragonFire


Good Question, How long will it take years, months, the scientist said the poles are moving slowly now, They are tracking the magnetic north now today 4 12 2007. A year from now where be that be, Remember the 2004 christmas quake, it shifted the planet several degrees, plus what about solar flares and the el ninos it causes.

reply to post by mazzroth


So buying beach property in costa rica is not adviced,

reply to post by geocom


I will have my supplies and equipment at my safeplace, well before 2010, by car. I will be living there permanentely at the first sign of trouble, anyways, well before it's too late to travel there.
And I'm not shunning family and friends, all I say is, that I won't stick around to die with them, if they won't come. Not that I'm afraid of death, I just want to experience post 2012 life in a physical way.

Peace!

i could say the same. i want to stick around to see what happens afterwards. how everything changes, how we live, and how the human race advances....only wish there was a geologist or some sort of scientist that could section and advise certain zones by level of danger if such an event were to happen. Like a continental survival plan, organized with zones in Red, Yellow, Green, and Blue. even writing this post i find myself alt-tabbing in between the youtube vids and Google Earth only guessing what would (or wouldn't be) a safe place.

The government is preparing itself, so why shouldn't we?

I got a question to all of you 'in the know' of this subject.

Could the eruption of a super-volcano such as the one at Yellowstone possibly cause an electromagnetic shift?
Just wondering if such large amounts of magma being shifted/released from underground could disrupt the field somehow.