Ron Paul wins 2nd YouTube/CNN debate ..MSM pretends it never happened

Originally posted by muzzleflash
im calling bull here...

Prove it, make guiliani win.

Youve got 2days to prove it to us.

He needs at least 50%...shouldnt be hard to to right? you only need 15k votes or so.

Well I did say that I could do a few hundred in a reasonable time, not 15k, perhaps you skipped that line. I also said "if I wanted to take the time to do it", which I don't. A few hundred determined people could do 15k in no time. If you really don't think this is possible, U2 me and I'll detail just how simple of a process it is.

The rest of you have probably seen a poll get completely blown out of proportion at least once. One common example is "freeping" which is when members of freerepublic.com decide they're going to push a poll over the edge for their candidate.

I agree that Paul is the only candidate, for me anyway. However, if he is not on the ticket, this will be the first time that I write in a candidate. I'm voting my conscience, not who's on the ballot if Paul isn't.

I'm certainly not going to ascribe to the "anyone but [insert name here]" or "lesser of two evils" philosophies.

The MSM hasn't paid any attention to Paul as of yet. Polls don't matter, they simply disregard his votes and look at the rest of the field.

It's all about the war!

If Paul supported the war, he'd be a top-tier candidate in a heartbeat.

Heck, the Bilderberg group would have had him over for lunch to coronate his candidacy!

Originally posted by Burginthorn
I dont know jack about American politics (Australia here) but I REALLY like what Ron Paul speaks.

He seems to have a genuine love for Americas Constitution. A genuine want to make things right. He's idea's are bold, grand and against established power - all the things I thought the American forefathers fought for. So why isn't every patriotic American supporting this man?

I've always admired America for standing up to the established powers, and fighting for truth and equality for ALL its citizens. Ron Paul, to me at least, comes across like the Americans of old. A man willing to stand for whats best for his country and its people.

I really hope Americans vote for this man.

I agree with everything you said there. I can see Ron Paul standing side by side with George Washington =).

I already donated to his campaign and will do again if his momentum keeps moving forward.

When all the other candidates talk it is all just talking points and spin. Ron Paul has a clear vision to return America to its greatness as a Republic and not an Empire. He has a PLAN where the others are just hoping to win and them come up with a plan.

Ron Paul to change America back into America!

Originally posted by JRCrowley
Ron Paul is an exceptional leader. You Americans are lucky to have him. Do the right thing and vote for him. Wait a second... I'm talking to the same country of people who voted for George W. Bush... TWICE. Good luck, guys. You're in my prayers.

sad but true.

he can't pop our comfy little ignorant belief systems

we can't let him make us aware that things may not stay as rosy as we believe

that would mean we would have to ......change


but to play devils advocate this corrupt system has been in place for a long time, their are a lot of complex relationships that have been developed and sustained which ordinary american's benefit from (opec dollar pegs, and contracts in oil) , the fed reserve system is as fraudulent and manipulated as they come (just by judging them on the fact they have been kicked out of this country twice since we declared our "independenc") but apparently our debt can accumulate SKY HIGH and we just have to make sure we can pay the intrest on it (which may prove challenging soon:wow our taxes sure they go toward paying the intrest toward the national debt that goes to the bankers but hey

half the world lives on 2$ a day or less, and america with all these corruptions seems to be ahead of the majority

That leaves me with the question, is there a great threat to the sustainability of the american standard of living in this current system (where the u.s are consumer's (indebted consumers)) and the other country's produce stuff as cheap as possible ( give me some latitude in trying to simplify and see a complex issue from an american angle). Because if their is not an imminent unbeatable threat, that ron paul's sound ideas and moral's may throw america into a seizure of shock therapy, and have collateral disorder.

If there is an imminent threat to the standard of living of americans, then Dr. Paul is probably what we very much need at this time and that is assuming that he is the first president that not only lives up to his campaign promises but has the *leverage* to implement them

I am a republican and I feel like Ron Paul is a great candidate he is an old school type of republican which is what this country needs right now I would settle for an old school Democrat but prefer an old school republican

By old school I mean before the 1930's type of guy who believes in small government and less of a big brother approach..

My question is this I have no Idea how many Ron Paul supporters are here on ATS but maybe all that are here should take the time to send and email to the main stream media on an individual basis about having more access to Ron Paul.

at any rate this would be a great change for this nation provided the politico in DC would allow him to accomplish what he talks about..


Respectfully
GEO

reply to post by Xeven


Ron Paul is the only candidate that I will vote for, unless the energizer bunny decides to jump into the race . Seriously, though, he is the only sane choice for a free and independent America. I don't agree with him on every issue, but he seems to possess a RARE quality in politics: that of INTEGRITY. That alone would make me vote for him no matter what party he is in.

Yet, the only way Dr. Paul could win is: 1) If the media began reporting the FACTS; 2) If the voting wasn't rigged, and 3) If the political system was restructured. Those three things need to be addressed and revised before decent candidates will ever have a shot at the presidency. This is what Americans need to become aware of if anything is ever to change.

I am a full suppporter, and have no regrets whatever the results of his campaign. This is an important movement that represents a shift in thinking on the part of Americans and internationals alike. People are catching on, and that is not a wasted effort, win or lose. I think we need to keep this in mind.

Cheers,
Chutso

[edit on 30/11/07 by chutso_ha]

What if Ron Paul doesn't get to be president? Will there be riots and such?

Originally posted by muzzleflash
At the time i am posting this link, the current results show Ron Paul winning with 48% in this weeks huge cnn/youtube debate.

Now, if you look all over CNN politics, you will notice they completely ignore this plain Fact. That ron paul won by a LANDSLIDE! lol

Its rediculous, they think "if we ignore him, he will go away". Im assuming thats their stance.

Ron Pauls the LANDSLIDE winner, easily.

SO why isnt CNN posting a story front page "ZOMG Ron Paul Wins!!!!11!!1"

He is suppost to be the "underdog nobody " canidate, but apparently even CNN viewers are overwhelmingly in favor of this man and his agenda.

I will vote for Ron Paul, given the chance. I do not agree with everything he has to say, but I agree he is the best choice for America.

That being said, Ron Paul was not the winner of the debate among viewers. Rather, those who took the time to vote online feel he was the winner. An online poll is quite different from a standard poll. Those who vote in an online poll are motivated to do so, and is not a true reliable sample. It is akin to asking what the best NFL team is; you are going to get quite different answers if you ask people only in Green Bay or Indianapolis. The only way to get a true sense of who the country feels is the best team is to take a sample from across the country.

Same goes for this CNN debate poll. It is fallacious to say the majority of CNN viewers think Ron Paul won. Instead, only the majority of those who took the effort to vote online. You might get quite a different answer if you had a true sample of CNN viewers, using standard polling practices and standards.

And while I will vote for Ron Paul given the chance, I have to say his supporters are a huge embarassment. There is no conspiracy against Ron Paul; CNN did not proclaim him the winner out of some horrible malice, but rather because online polls are not reliable indicators of national feelings and attitudes.

[edit on 30-11-2007 by SaviorComplex]

Originally posted by TheoOne
What if Ron Paul doesn't get to be president? Will there be riots and such?

No, but we will see a deluge of posts about how there was some evil conspiracy against him, how he was who the American people wanted, but evil corporations or parties or who-ever rigged the system. Or some other ridiculous nonsense.

Really, Ron Paul supporters are embarassing. It can be said you are defined by your friends. One of the reasons no one takes Paul seriously is because you cannot take his supporters seriously. They act as fanatics and fools, and that reflects back on Paul. You want to help Ron Paul? Stop spouting the nonsense conspiracy theories, stop acting like a fanatic, and start using some common sense.

[edit on 30-11-2007 by SaviorComplex]

[edit on 30-11-2007 by SaviorComplex]

This is hilarious...

At least the 3 stooges didnt pick Giuliani or Hillary as their favorites, so that means their IQ has to be above 80 at least....it could be worse.


[edit on 30-11-2007 by Copernicus]

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
Really, Ron Paul supporters are embarassing. It can be said you are defined by your friends. One of the reasons no one takes Paul seriously is because you cannot take his supporters seriously. They act as fanatics and fools, and that reflects back on Paul. You want to help Ron Paul? Stop spouting the nonsense conspiracy theories, stop acting like a fanatic, and start using some common sense.

You will sing a different tune when you realize the conspiracy "theories" are not theories at all, but a very clear reality... just because you have been brainwashed into thinking conspiracy = nonsense doesnt mean you are completely lost. You just have to start questioning the things you think you know and snap out of the illusion.

Originally posted by Copernicus
You will sing a different tune when you realize the conspiracy "theories" are not theories at all, but a very clear reality... just because you have been brainwashed into thinking conspiracy = nonsense doesnt mean you are completely lost. You just have to start questioning the things you think you know and snap out of the illusion.

This is exactly what I was talking about. Your every word proves my point.

If you do not believe there is some conspiracy against Ron Paul, then you have been brainwashed, you are delusional, you're not intelligent, etc. This is the exact sort of fanaticism and nonsense that reflects poorly on Ron Paul, and prevents him from finding wider acceptance.

[edit on 30-11-2007 by SaviorComplex]

By God, I'm gonna run for president .... vote for me !!!

I'll re-open a 9/11 investigation with plenty of funding
I'll bring our troops home from Iraq and Afghanistan
I'll bring back to US those jobs that NAFTA sent to 3rd world countries
I'll make in-expensive water-fueled cars affordable
I'll fix our energy problems by using hydrogen
I'll repeal the Patriot Act (both versions)
I will not veto any bill that both the house and senate approve
I will not lie to the public
I will repeal the Security Act and give rights back to people
I will abolish the CIA (that includes Bin Laden)
I will keep our nose out of foreign affairs
I will get us off oil dependency with cheap (free) power
I will kick the lobbyist out of Washington and/or send them
to jail
I will put a cap on campaign funding for any candidate $10M
I will set up government sponsored healthcare for ALL Americans
I will set up a task force to deport ALL illegal immigrants, no matter
how they got here or how long they've been here.
I'll use our military to secure our own borders instead of invading
other countries borders
I will seek out the illuminatti and send then to prison. They will be
on my FBI's Most Wanted List instead of alleged terrorists.
I'll take away that ungodly black ops budget and turn it into
a social security fix.
I will open Area 51 and S4 to the public
I will adopt a non-hostile foreign policy by helping them instead
of trying to covertly overthrow their regime


Don't know if I can get all that done in 4 years
but I'd dam well try

So how's my agenda sound so far ???
What are my chances of getting elected ???

Or should I say what are my chances of surviving
an assassins bullet for four years

Dr.Paul did get his rebuttal to McCain with in those few minutes. I think Ron Paul uses what lttle time in front of a camera well.

More Boos At Republican YouTube Debate As McCain Re-Writes History

McCain accused Paul of what he called the same sort of appeasement that allowed Hitler to take power and WWII to happen, and told him he’d just returned from Iraq and said he had a message for Ron from “the troops” — and the audience let him have it. Paul put it right back in his face by reminding him that he has received more donations from active duty military personnel than any other Republican candidate.

www.crooksandliars.com...

Good Morning America,
Please support Dr Ron Paul in his campaign all the way to The White House, here in England we have no one of his calibre and integrity. Ron Paul is America's only hope, and if only you will all support him, then maybe the electorate here in England will take heart and vote against the charlatans in office here. Decent people around the world look to you as a beacon of hope in these dangerous times.
Good Luck and God Bless America,
Horsegiver.

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
This is exactly what I was talking about. Your every word proves my point.

If you do not believe there is some conspiracy against Ron Paul, then you have been brainwashed, you are delusional, you're not intelligent, etc. This is the exact sort of fanaticism and nonsense that reflects poorly on Ron Paul, and prevents him from finding wider acceptance.

Are you honestly suggesting that the media is "fair & balanced", NOT biased towards any candidate -- and that the media does NOT play the most important role in deciding which candidate gets elected? Because if you are... then I'm sorry to sound cliche, but you are living in a fantasy world. This is the only "conspiracy" that Paul supporters openly accept when rallying etc. So I'm not sure what you're on about mate. Perhaps you were referring to the NAU subject? If so, I can show you pretty darn convincing evidence that suggests it's a reality, not a "conspiracy". Incase you somehow missed the obvious, anyway.

You really need to take a step back and stop generalizing and connecting some of our personal beliefs with that of the Ron Paul campaign. What you've said is insulting and untrue. It's only YOUR opinion that you are right -- not a fact. So please don't come here and speak to us in a condescending manner, as if you know better. Unless you want to actually debate the facts properly and try and prove "us kooks" wrong -- then keep the insults to yourself .

[edit on 30/11/07 by Navieko]

reply to post by Zeta115


Believe it or not, there's a few good people trying to do all those things, but if it was as easy to do as saying it, all these issues would be solved by now. What citzen doesn't want all those things? I don't think you understand the difficulty or magnitude of modern American politics.

reply to post by DeadFlagBlues

I agree with ya, that's all part of the problem there is so
much of a smokescreen in politics that somebody needs to
clear it all up so we can actually SEE what is going on.
A more transparent government ... that everybody
could believe in. Right now, the majority of citizens
don't believe their own government when it says
something. The truth factor needs to be re-installed
in our operating system. At the very least, it needs
a very critical update

Here is a source for Real Poll Numbers.

Ron Paul is coming in at 1 to 6% over the last few months. A couple don't even carry his numbers because they are too low for him to be a viable Candidate.

This pretty well proves that Paul Supporters are causing false numbers on that ridiculously unscientific Polling.

I'm neutral at the moment. I don't care for any of the Candidates.

I can empathize with people becoming emotional when their Candidate is doing so badly but trying to rig Polls is dishonest. Who needs dishonesty in Politics. Isn't there enough already?

This guarantees nobody will take these things seriously any more. CNN is probably sorry they bothered.

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
One of the reasons no one takes Paul seriously is because you cannot take his supporters seriously.

that's a logical fallacy. A typical variation of ad hominem.